The Legend of Heroes Series - Possibly The Most Underrated JRPG Series

[ShitLurker]

Finished coldsteel 4 a while ago and I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed in coldsteel as a whole.

I enjoyed it but it's definitely a game that the more I think about it, the more I'm not the slightest bit surprised you feel that way.

I can't believe we went from a bright and shining lead like Estelle and the tenacious Lloyd to the gary stu power fantasy self-insert that is Rean for 4 whole fucking games.

Definitely, worst aspect by far. Estelle was the daughter of a big shot, but it's not like she inherited his OPness, being Cassius daughter gave her some social perks but that's about the end of it, she operates nothing like her father does in the present nor does she have any desire to do it. She just wants to help people and bonk shit on the head and is content with that while being a ray of sunshine for anybody in the area.

Lloyd is literally "some dude", it's some guy that happens to have a very developed sense of justice and that doesn't mind shoving his nose into trouble because of it. He doesn't have a special lineage, hell, he doesn't even have any particular special social perks from his brother outside of a few sympathy points here and there. Guy has to make something of himself to be respected, same with the group of misfits that compose the CPD that he manages to wrangle. He does have a bit of the harem but nothing too overt.

Then we have Rean. Rean the stupid kid that abandoned his sword studies yet is considered a (CS4 Spoilers) Divine Blade, and of Void no less which is the extra special style! Has a hidden dangerous power that makes him sexier when unleashed. Every single woman that looks upon him loses all agency and only desires that Rean cock. (CS4 Spoilers) He is the fucking son of the big bad which also happens to be reincarnation of the best Emperor Erebonia ever fucking had AND has the super special heart of said ex Emperor of Erebonia. Oh and he has a fucking Gundam. He just goes through all of the checklists of Gary Stu (complicated past, hidden power, tragic yet never stopping) and Mary Sue (loved by all, anybody can totes do what he does, he just has a knack for it) that I think he ended up becoming a company shitpost about how much stuff they could dump into him. What a wretched protagonist after Estelle and Lloyd. The worst part is that as a character he is incredibly bland and safe, if his little spergouts made him have an unexpected edge it could have at least been interesting, but the guy is all cotton candy.

Also, you forgot about poor Kevin, everybody forgets Kevin he was also great though feels very under utilized in the rest of the series, I still have hope for a church centered game.

The old class VII is such a shit cast compared to sky and crossbell, many characters are either one dimensional and boring like Gaius, Laura, and Elliot, or exist only to explore the class conflict in cs1 like Machias and Jusis. The only characters that really felt like they had anything going for them were Fie Emma and Crow, but unfortunately they have to compete for screen time with the other pieces of furniture and don't get to develop as much.

Biggest issue with Cold Steel in general is the bloated cast and original class 7 being so big was the first fuck up. I would merge Laura's traits with Jusis and Machias with Alisa and outright remove Elliot and Gaius from class 7 (could still be unique characters from other classes though) and just from that you cut out to 5 members of class 7 when the game starts, Rean, Jusis, Emma (and we also delete the fucking cat, stole half of Emma's character, cat should just be a familiar that Roselia/Emma can use to talk through once in a while), Fie and Alisa. Also, while at it, no harem, just Rean with Emma like god intended!

Jusis was a fine character as is but could get the extra "live by the sword thing" and Alisa could have a normal step father with mayor Regnitz. Though speaking of Alisa...

I swear to god all of Alisa's problems boil down to her yelling "Sharon! Mother! Sharon! Mother!" for 400 hours, made me want to blow my fucking brains out.

I'm incredibly amazed they made her the main girl, at least in spirit with how irrelevant she is. She doesn't become mildly relevant till CS3 and it's only due to who her parents are. She by herself never has much of an actual impact on anything and her arc being "buaaah, my mom is a bitch (even though I have a stupid awesome maid sister/bodyguard)" is a lot less compelling than Fie's search for a family or Emma trying to follow her destiny and the legacy of her mother. I will at least give Alisa that she had more than "I like Swords", "I like music" and "I like the wind".

New class VII I thought was actually pretty great and I loved them spearheading the first act of cs4, it's just unfortunate that so much screen time is robbed from them in cs3-4 to cater to the old class VII.

Agreed, the next gen was great. Though Kurt got fucked over a bit I think, he had some nice chemistry with Juna but the Rean cock magnet killed that.

I also hate how mobile your party is in coldsteel.

This I don't mind. Erebonia is a lot bigger than Crossbell or Liberl, so I don't mind that the games look to give it scale on how big it is. It's another argument that they could have grounded things more and made your area of influence smaller to correspond with each current situation.

Hearing that Falcom is a black company killed all of my interests in their different series. I think that's because you have a lot of purity with the games in regards to adventure and characters, so the revelations really hurts the image. Plus it just seems like they'll never close any plot thread as the kiseki games bloat exponentially.

That news did bum me out, but how long as it been a black company though? This video seems like a nice overview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=JIcbJn-RylQ

It's INSANE how much top tier talent they bleed out and multiple times. And there is a bit that is outright evil about how they avoid crediting their employees properly. Basically, I'm amazed that a company with such a reputation for such a long time has been able to release so many good games. Though they do seem to be losing some steam if what I hear of Kuro 2 being meandering or the latest Ys being considered mid.

 

[Freelance Police]

Also, you forgot about poor Kevin, everybody forgets Kevin he was also great though feels very under utilized in the rest of the series, I still have hope for a church centered game.

You're right, and I'll make it up to my boy now. Kevin feels like a much better execution of what they tried to do with Rean. Both are characters who've lost their original families and were burdened with a fantastical power that neither character wanted nor asked for, which becomes one of the roots of their self-loathing that they are tasked throughout their respective games to overcome. The difference between Kevin and Rean is that Kevin has a far better reason to be afraid of his power considering that he accidentally killed Rufina, who was a very important person both in his own life and in regards to the church, it's a lot more justifiable for Kevin to be afraid of his own power and hate himself after fucking up as badly as killing the woman who took you in. Rean by comparison is afraid of his power because he used it in self-defense as a child to protect himself and his adoptive sister from a wild animal? He hates himself because he made his adoptive sister cry and couldn't save a literal terrorist who was trying to kill himself? If Rean actually did something like kill a fucker with his ogre power then maybe it'd be more understandable but his character is so sanitized that it just comes off as another asspull ability of his that he's irrationally afraid of.

and we also delete the fucking cat, stole half of Emma's character, cat should just be a familiar that Roselia/Emma can use to talk through once in a while

Incredibly based decision and I agree wholeheartedly.

Though Kurt got fucked over a bit I think, he had some nice chemistry with Juna

I feel like Kurt's character is easier to underrate since he's more of a straight man compared to everybody else in new class VII but I still think he's well written. His conflict is very much rooted within the changing status quo of Erebonia in CSIII with the Vander's being dismissed from their duties in relation to the royal family. Much like many of the characters of old class VII a big part of his identity comes from his family name, but unlike any of the old class VII his problems feel more interpersonal and multifaceted beyond just succeeding his family name. His lack of self-confidence comes from both his physical build compared to the other people in his family like Mueller that he has a great respect for and the legacy he feels he needs to live up to. It's compounded by the fact that his family seems to no longer be needed with their dismissal as guardians of the royal family and the advent of more advanced technology rendering swordplay more obsolete. If all the talented people he grew to respect and strived to be so much were deemed unimportant enough to continue their duties, then what place does Kurt feel like he has in the upcoming world? It works both as a personal character journey and as a reflection of the political state of affairs of Erebonia. I feel like the main problem with it is that it pretty much concludes itself within CSIII, kinda like how Tio's whole arc concludes within Zero, but unlike Tio Kurt's personality is more tame on account of him being the straight man of the group, compared to Tio constantly ragging on the guys in Zero and Azure and having a more eccentric personality that gives her more presence between character interactions. On the flipside though Kurt being the way he is also brings out some good chemistry with characters like Juna and Ash, and actually brings out some of the better parts in Rean as an instructor. It also doesn't help that Kurt, along with the rest of new class VII, have to compete for screen time with old class VII, him feeling a bit screwed over is just another symptom of their horrible inclusion.

 

[ForgedBlades]

TOKYO XANADU 2 HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

FALCOM IS SAVED

https://www.gematsu.com/2024/03/tokyo-xanadu-new-project-announced-for-console

 

[ShitLurker]

You're right, and I'll make it up to my boy now. Kevin feels like a much better execution of what they tried to do with Rean.

Agreed and very good point about Kevin kind of being Rean but much better.

Rean by comparison is afraid of his power because he used it in self-defense as a child to protect himself and his adoptive sister from a wild animal?

This always seemed peak retarded to me. Had he at least slapped her, caused her to fall of a cliff and get hypothermia, something, with more gravitas and if it also happened more frequently and with chaotic results, it could have worked, but the ogre power just works, does it's thing and there is never ever any unwanted collateral while using it outside of a couple of sidequest scenes in CS4.

Incredibly based decision and I agree wholeheartedly.

I do consider myself to be somewhat of a witch enjoyer.

I feel like the main problem with it is that it pretty much concludes itself within CSIII, kinda like how Tio's whole arc concludes within Zero, but unlike Tio Kurt's personality is more tame on account of him being the straight man of the group, compared to Tio constantly ragging on the guys in Zero and Azure and having a more eccentric personality that gives her more presence between character interactions.

A lot of great points about Kurt, though I want to focus on this. Yeah, he had his arc in CSIII of not feeling good enough and not trusting Rean to be what can get him out of his funk but it really does get sorted in 3. In Reverie he does get a bit more to him, but not much and well, Kurt is just the reliable rock of the team. You are right that it's less what he does and more how other characters bounce off him, the Ashe rivalry is a good point and Rean as a teacher is one of his better character traits.

And well, since you also mention Tio, Kurt at least didn't get flanderized, they went really hard with Tio's tism about Mishi. It does give setup to some great laughs here and there but well, Tio was a very intense character in zero so I'm kind of conflicted in the "well, she seems to have gone beyond it and enjoying her life" and "she's basically a caricature to expound technobabble and do fangirl jokes".

It also doesn't help that Kurt, along with the rest of new class VII, have to compete for screen time with old class VII, him feeling a bit screwed over is just another symptom of their horrible inclusion.

Each game really got worst. It's not just old class VII either, you also have to fit in the Liberl group, the ex Ouroboros group, the multiple randos that end up with you at a time. I was absolutely baffled by the end of 4 by how many characters were floating around. It's what I'm really looking forward to Kuro, a reset of the cast and focusing on a smaller set of characters again, I don't mind some fan service here and there (oh look, a wandering witch!) but definitely not another 40 character bonanza.

View attachment 5795679 TOKYO XANADU 2 HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED View attachment 5795679

THIS IS NOT A DRILL

FALCOM IS SAVED

https://www.gematsu.com/2024/03/tokyo-xanadu-new-project-announced-for-console

The first one always seemed to have middling reviews though it does go for a heavy heavy discount. Am I really sleeping on it?

 

[ForgedBlades]

Am I really sleeping on it?

I adore it, but a sizeable amount of people (even Falcom fans) think it's terrible. It really feels like a game where you either fall in love with it or you hate it, with very little middle ground. I honestly just meme the fuck out of it to piss off people who hate it.

 

[ShitLurker]

I adore it, but a sizeable amount of people (even Falcom fans) think it's terrible. It really feels like a game where you either fall in love with it or you hate it, with very little middle ground. I honestly just meme the fuck out of it to piss off people who hate it.

Well, I've made it no mystery that I have 0 standards when it comes to anime slop. Guess the question is more if the characters are nice enough to hold the fort even if the main plot may be a mess and if the gameplay cycle holds up for the whole game.

 

[terry fan 67]

Rean is a faggot

 

[AWarmToiletSeat]

Well, I've made it no mystery that I have 0 standards when it comes to anime slop. Guess the question is more if the characters are nice enough to hold the fort even if the main plot may be a mess and if the gameplay cycle holds up for the whole game.

Are you down for A Ys game in a Highschool fantasy setting akin to Shakugan no Shana? If so, you'll probably like it.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

ogre power

I always hated that term, besides the fact that it's a bad choice in the localisation (should have gone with Oni or Demon) it was clear the original goal was making Rean a vampire since the end of 3 really pushed that piece of lore with the possessed soldiers.

The first one always seemed to have middling reviews though it does go for a heavy heavy discount. Am I really sleeping on it?

I didn't like it. It's the usual crime of bland protagonist, middling combat system and a plot where you never feel powerful since every second NPC is actually some swordmaster masquerading as a shopowner. Cool intro though.

 

[Kerr Avon]

How much of a shitshow is the Daybreak release in a few weeks gonna be ?

 

[FatMebius]

How much of a shitshow is the Daybreak release in a few weeks gonna be ?

Dunno. Depends on if NISA gives us another pozzed livestream.

Holy shit though. The Daybreak demo is long. I keep waiting for the "This demo is over" message, but it never seems to come.

 

[Zim64]

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

 

[Sigma_Rizzler]

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

Fuckin' hell, they've finally gotten to Trails too? I know NiSA was trying to push this shit before & I've seen the livestreams but I figured they'd leave it alone. Obviously this isn't what the line is in Japanese. My copium is that this causes a stir and they run it back...but that's like a 1% chance. Trails has been my safe haven from woke stuff for a few years now. Seems like it's finally seeped into even the most niche series. At this point I need to start my own fucking studio to avoid it.

 

[AWarmToiletSeat]

View attachment 6140960

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

It's worth noting, she does genuinely suffer from issues with her gender. But, Van also DID NOT SAY THIS. At least if the fan patch I used is anything to go by.

 

[Sigma_Rizzler]

But, Van also DID NOT SAY THIS.

To my understanding, Van asks if he should use "kun" or "chan".

 

[AWarmToiletSeat]

To my understanding, Van asks if he should use "kun" or "chan".

I don't have a screencap on hand to verify. But, yes I remember that being the case.

 

[ShitLurker]

View attachment 6140960

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

... guess we are going for fan translation

It's worth noting, she does genuinely suffer from issues with her gender. But, Van also DID NOT SAY THIS. At least if the fan patch I used is anything to go by.

Does the fan patch cover the whole game? I do tend to enjoy interacting with all of the NPCs doing the rounds. How is it in the grand scheme of things?

 

[AWarmToiletSeat]

QUOTE="ShitLurker, post: 18733287, member: 46743"]
... guess we are going for fan translation

Does the fan patch cover the whole game? I do tend to enjoy interacting with all of the NPCs doing the rounds. How is it in the grand scheme of things?
[/QUOTE]

It's just main story and side quest dialogue. There are screen grabber tools to help with other stuff. But, you're on your own for that.

 

[Trollblade69]

REAN IS A CHILD GROOMER!!!
REAN IS A KIDDY DIDDLER!!!

If you'll excuse me, I need to laugh hysterically for the next FOREVER. Also amusing how the whistleblower's name is "Rina", if you know your Newgrounds history.

 

[Trollblade69]

Saving the images that were in the Twitter posts:

Spoiler

And a Tumblr post. Archive version here.