The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[888Flux]

Don’t recommend it to anyone and learn to stop installing stupid shit on your computer.

Discord

into the trash it goes

Nothing better then having to use a literal spyware messaging platform that requires a non-VOIP phone number just to sign up. Why bother using a forum or mailing list when you can have everything behind a locked gate where it can't be indexed by a search engine and you end up having to ask the same question over and over again to a bunch of retarded trannies.

 

[残念。]

I threw omarchy on a spare computer to try it out. Seems like an ok way to give hyprland a solid trial without having to configure everything yourself from the ground up before you know if you even like it. I'll still main mint though.

 

[Dread First]

I want to use my computer for doing stuff, not spend hours upon hours tinkering and putting it all together because I get a kick out of it. Arch/Artix without an installer is a waste of time if you're going to use it for anything but actual desktop work. Doubly so if the installer means you've installed it "the wrong way" and it'll lead to issues which you wouldn't have if you installed it "the right way", which involves wasting time typing out a command after command. If your distro demands that for it to work, it's a shit distro not meant for real life usage, period.

Every opinionated Arch distro is a massive meme. If you want out of the box linux just use Debian and its related variants. I can get devs wanting "bleeding edge" but if you're using arch you're going to be hands on no matter what variation of it you're using, just run a clean arch install and get your WMs and programs yourself

Not to mention that the OOTB bleeding edge lazy man's Linux shtick is already handled fairly well by Fedora. If Arch does it for free like a janny, then Fedora's the one with actual financial backing, (theoretically) better quality control, and almost identical internals to Arch (only consequential difference is DNF/RPM vs Pacman/ZST) while sharing one crucial project goal: tracking the latest stable releases of software and pushing it out ASAP. The only real difference was scale, and even with all the fresh blood and exposure Arch gets on the regular nowadays, it still feels like a niche project above other niche projects

It seems like people forget that Arch's official repositories are fairly small relative to Debian Sid and Fedora's repositories. The AUR was basically a dumping ground for packages that Arch users really wanted, but developers couldn't be fucked to support. Sometimes, if a package is really popular, then it gets adopted into the official repositories via the "community" channel, but that only means a trusted member of the community stepped forward and decided to maintain it. That's all well and good, but so much software that's bog standard in Debian Sid or Fedora is relegated to the AUR. I get it: one side has a massive community of people maintaining it, the other side has massive corporate investment that gets paid developers maintaining it.

Even so, it speaks volumes how both Debian Sid and Fedora are able to handle like 70-80% of the AUR's packages in terms of overlap without the risk of unmaintained packages, outdated packages that are 2-3 months out of sync with upstream with no git version to go off either, supply chain malware attacks, or general inaccessibility due to the AUR getting DDOSed all the damn time for some inexplicable reason. Any genuinely productive work that would give someone an excuse to track bleeding edge software is already handled pretty well in Fedora, plus tons of other goodies that would actually make sense in that type of environment (i.e. literally all the fucking containerisation and virtualisation features that Fedora's adopted or otherwise created since 2011 like XEN, KVM, LXCs, LXDs, and Podman for unprivileged Docker containers).

 

[acid_ra1n]

>oh boy free computer
>Dell d600
>surely I can run Linux on this i used to run Linux on my d610
>try to boot installer
>this kernel requires a 64 bit CPU detected i686
Guess I'm downloading antix. The humor of having antix on one machine, artix on another, and Omarchy on a third is not lost on me

 

[Kaiba Cuqk63]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to get up and running quickly, I don’t think anyone should need to get deep into the weeds if they don’t want to. Though with most of these arch variants I don’t see a real advantage over just using arch install into KDE plasma if you really want arch the easy way. They do seem to be quite a vector for dimwits lately.

I threw omarchy on a spare computer to try it out. Seems like an ok way to give hyprland a solid trial without having to configure everything yourself from the ground up before you know if you even like it. I'll still main mint though.

It fills a niche since there aren’t a lot of distributions that have a full hyprland config. A lot of people would have a better long term experience with it if they just swiped the configs they liked and set it up themselves. With hyprland you really do have to learn how to configure it eventually. It doesn’t take that long to harvest all the good parts and leave out all the crap. Especially the branding

Not to mention that the OOTB bleeding edge lazy man's Linux shtick is already handled fairly well by Fedora.

People switching currently have no clue what the actual difference is between distributions nor do they realize the fancy stuff like hyprland runs on all of them. They don’t even know why they want to use arch so they aren’t going to see why Fedora may be the better choice. There’s so much Linux slop content dedicated to just picking a distro alone and none of them outright tell the viewer there’s barely any difference.

 

[cigint]

Arch is an attractive platform for people who want to "start their own distro" for clout, because Arch users have such low expectations for what it means to be a distribution. Minimally the process just involves pre-selecting some software and maybe making a graphical theme for one of the desktop environments you can get from pacman. Boom now I'm the maintainer of my very own TrannyOS and can start a groomcord community.

 

[acid_ra1n]

>oh boy free computer
>Dell d600
>surely I can run Linux on this i used to run Linux on my d610
>try to boot installer
>this kernel requires a 64 bit CPU detected i686
Guess I'm downloading antix. The humor of having antix on one machine, artix on another, and Omarchy on a third is not lost on me

oh i did try void too but this cpu doesnt support PAE
now im looking around trying to figure out where their xorg.conf is or how to start picom on boot on icewm

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

“Devs” who can’t use a package manager

They're apple users.... what do you expect? The only thing they care about is if it has the things they want already. Installing packages is a foreign concept to them.

@Kaiba Cuqk63 People switching currently have no clue what the actual difference is between distributions nor do they realize the fancy stuff like hyprland runs on all of them.

That specifically isn't exactly true. Mostly because various distros have purposefully made it a pain in the ass to run hyprland on. Like not packaging it at all because they don't like the dev. On others it can be a bit of a pain, because hyprland itself tends to be pretty bleeding edge with features, so if you have an older compiler it won't build, or if you might need to run an older version of it because the rest of the dependencies it needs are older than what the current package uses. Which isn't technically a big deal, if the distro you are using doesn't have a grudge against vaxry, and they don't mind maintaining a package for it that works for the available dependencies. But most of the distros I've used other than arch, and nix basically leave it to you to install it through other channels if you want to run it. It looks like at least fedora happens to be one of the places that does have a package for it.

 

[WielkiWapiesz2137]

Guix taught me the value of not just turning your nose up and kvetching about muh outdated packages, but spinning up your own.

Nice thing about Guix is that it does have guix import feature which makes it braindead easy to import packages from pypi, elpa etc sadly it as everything in guix it is bit undercooked and as such sometimes doesn't work especially when working with the typical nu-app depedency graph yet for non-jeetware it works well.

 

[Kaiba Cuqk63]

They're apple users.... what do you expect? The only thing they care about is if it has the things they want already. Installing packages is a foreign concept to them.

I mean they should have used homebrew or pip at least a couple times, but sure I guess it’s not the same as managing your system that way.

Mostly because various distros have purposefully made it a pain in the ass to run hyprland on. Like not packaging it at all because they don't like the dev.

Oh my god what is with these people and trying to make free software about their own gay bullshit. All that should matter is if the software is good. how do these people even have the bandwidth to care about what everyone thinks?

Do they even understand how retarded they look? What exactly is the problem with hyprland, don’t like their discord? Don’t join it! Don’t use discord at all! Share issues on GitHub you dipshit. So they want to fuck over a good project that’s free because they want to be in charge of an adjacent social media page? I don’t see the hyprland devs trying to fuck over other people’s projects or tell other devs how to act with their friends. This shit reminds me of when I was a kid, this absolute faggot made his mom beg my mom to force me to invite him to my birthday. Shithead proceeds to have an absolute meltdown because he hated all my friends. That kid was like 11 and these people are like 40. This idea that every single place needs to accommodate you and that any one doing something you don’t like somewhere means they must not be even be mentioned anywhere is pathetic.

I checked the GitHub and the only negative part of the community that might prevent you from taking your issues there that I could find was all the troons ganging up on the maintainers plus that guy who calls every open source project that doesn’t give him power without contributing fascist.

You know what? Even though it’s Linux for Pirate Software, I’m gonna give one point back to omarchy because I know these fags can’t stand it, either.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

You know what? Even though it’s Linux for Pirate Software, I’m gonna give one point back to omarchy because I know these fags can’t stand it, either.

The thing that is actually kind of shocking to me. Is that nix is one of the only places outside of arch that has first class support for hyprland. Especially doing a bit of a dive into the original nix overthrow that happened over in the open source thread. They are one of the most deranged, tranny communist infested distros out there. Really I recommend people that haven't seen that give it a look over, its kind of insane.

You would think they would have turned on them when Drew Devault decided he had a blood fued against the project. But no, its probably the best place to run the mainline git version of hyprland actually.

 

[Dread First]

They're apple users.... what do you expect? The only thing they care about is if it has the things they want already. Installing packages is a foreign concept to them.

I mean they should have used homebrew or pip at least a couple times, but sure I guess it’s not the same as managing your system that way.

Put some respect on MacPorts' name, damn it! MacPorts was, and still is, the OG third-party OSX package manager. There is a marginal advantage to using MacPorts over Homebrew, insofar as maintaining separate libraries instead of using the OSX libraries, how you don't need to rely on --cask, and how packages installed via MacPorts install in /opt.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Put some respect on MacPorts' name, damn it! MacPorts was, and still is, the OG third-party OSX package manager. There is a marginal advantage to using MacPorts over Homebrew, insofar as maintaining separate libraries instead of using the OSX libraries, how you don't need to rely on --cask, and how packages installed via MacPorts install in /opt.

Look up theo, and his opinions on why mac is great, and you will see exactly what I meant.

 

[GNU Abyss]

Not to mention that the OOTB bleeding edge lazy man's Linux shtick is already handled fairly well by Fedora. If Arch does it for free like a janny, then Fedora's the one with actual financial backing, (theoretically) better quality control, and almost identical internals to Arch (only consequential difference is DNF/RPM vs Pacman/ZST) while sharing one crucial project goal: tracking the latest stable releases of software and pushing it out ASAP. The only real difference was scale, and even with all the fresh blood and exposure Arch gets on the regular nowadays, it still feels like a niche project above other niche projects

I tried Fedora for a year and moved on. You do get the bleeding edge, but it's still locked into the Debian cycle of full system upgrades every X amount of time. That's just a minor difference compared to Arch, however. The main reason I switched is because my experience reading changelogs from one major release to another and threads on the forum made me feel like I'm Red Hat's beta tester/lab rat. Given what they're up to these days (Wayland, tighter systemd integration, pushing their GNOME-adjacent library bullshit), I'm not going back. If a time comes to poz myself with Poetterware, I'll hop to Debian Unstable.

 

[Dread First]

I tried Fedora for a year and moved on. You do get the bleeding edge, but it's still locked into the Debian cycle of full system upgrades every X amount of time. That's just a minor difference compared to Arch, however. The main reason I switched is because my experience reading changelogs from one major release to another and threads on the forum made me feel like I'm Red Hat's beta tester/lab rat. Given what they're up to these days (Wayland, tighter systemd integration, pushing their GNOME-adjacent library bullshit), I'm not going back. If a time comes to poz myself with Poetterware, I'll hop to Debian Unstable.

At least Fedora builds into something. Arch lost everything that made it unique in the transition from the original BSD-style initscripts to systemd back in 2012. It's basically a community-maintained analogue to Fedora that just keeps rolling without the satisfaction of an engineered long-term stable release. If the name of the game is avoiding Poetterware, it's basically inescapable without hopping to something like Devuan, Artix, Gentoo, or antiX. Whether we like it or not, Arch has systemd, Arch has first-class support for Hyprland, the latest releases of systemd and Wayland get pushed through regardless of whether or not there's a bug, a regression, or whatever else, you're more than able to run the latest version of GNOME which would be borderline indistinguishable from Fedora anyway. The correct answer is obviously to abstain from corpo slop whenever possible, but when every single frickin community project nowadays with an iota of publicity seemingly has venture capital backing (i.e. Nix, Omarchy, etc), I think the traditional Linux company option would be far more preferable.

 

[cigint]

At least Fedora builds into something. Arch lost everything that made it unique in the transition from the original BSD-style initscripts to systemd back in 2012.

Arch and Fedora are almost completely equivalent. It's mostly a question of, do you want firewalld and selinux by default or not, and do you occasionally want to "migrate" to a new Fedora release which either works or it doesn't.

The discussion of which of the two is the more pure in its philosophy and design intent etc. etc. is like these fringe Christian denominations arguing about whether the communion bread literally turns into the body of Jesus in your mouth or not.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Arch and Fedora are almost completely equivalent. It's mostly a question of, do you want firewalld and selinux by default or not, and do you occasionally want to "migrate" to a new Fedora release which either works or it doesn't.

The discussion of which of the two is the more pure in its philosophy and design intent etc. etc. is like these fringe Christian denominations arguing about whether the communion bread literally turns into the body of Jesus in your mouth or not.

I guess. I think of fedora as more of a direct RHEL project. It's a "community" maintained project. But RHEL people are basically who run it. They sit on the board. They make the decisions. It's literally what was said above. A testing ground for RHEL. When you run fedora you are basically Red Hat's bug tester.

 

[Froggy Fresh Sextape]

I guess. I think of fedora as more of a direct RHEL project. It's a "community" maintained project. But RHEL people are basically who run it. They sit on the board. They make the decisions. It's literally what was said above. A testing ground for RHEL. When you run fedora you are basically Red Hat's bug tester.

Yes and no. Red Hat employees use Fedora and work on it in their free time, sure, but I think the project leader is the only paid position.

If Fedora started doing something extremely weird Red Hat would likely step in since it's upstream for RHEL, but they've already diverged quite a bit (see: btrfs and -fno-omit-frame-pointers)

 

[Dread First]

I guess. I think of fedora as more of a direct RHEL project. It's a "community" maintained project. But RHEL people are basically who run it. They sit on the board. They make the decisions. It's literally what was said above. A testing ground for RHEL. When you run fedora you are basically Red Hat's bug tester.

Yes and no. Red Hat employees use Fedora and work on it in their free time, sure, but I think the project leader is the only paid position.

If Fedora started doing something extremely weird Red Hat would likely step in since it's upstream for RHEL, but they've already diverged quite a bit (see: btrfs and -fno-omit-frame-pointers)

When Red Hat deprecated Red Hat Linux in favour of Fedora Core (now Fedora), it was explicitly meant for "the Linux hobbyist." In the same vein as Arch, you're not a proper bug tester, since you're not using any of the testing repositories OOTB, nor is anyone ever encouraged to do so. You just get the latest software that upstream (i.e. the Linux kernel proper, GNOME, KDE, Wayland, LibreOffice, Firefox, Mesa, any GNU tooling like coreutils, bash, etc) deems "stable" (i.e. suitable for immediate adoption in general use cases, not necessarily a production environment). Fedora releases are "engineered" to the extent that all this newfangled software can sit together and play nice in a general-purpose desktop use distribution that anyone from a hyper-autismo enthusiast to a paid Red Hat stooge can get comfortable with on some level. If you were a proper Red Hat bug tester, you'd be attempting to daily drive Fedora Rawhide over standard Workstation, KDE, etc. Also: important thing to keep in mind - you still have access to the latest and greatest stable software even if a new edition comes out. Do you think Fedora 42 users are stuck with marginally older kernels and marginally older GNOME/KDE releases? I would hope you don't, considering how rapid the turnover in software is on an X+2 release cycle.

Between Fedora and Artix, I gleefully prefer Artix with XLibre and Cinnamon over Fedora Workstation with Wayland and GNOME Shell. Even so, it really must be said that Fedora's not particularly unpleasant to use even with full GNOME Shell and Wayland. I thoroughly detest the GNOME team, they probably want me to die because I'm a literal minority who aligns with the evil heckin awful Nazirino chuds (race traitor looool), Wayland is almost "good enough," still not "adequate," let alone "excellent" and won't ever be due to design philosophy outsourcing things to compositors with no fixed specification, yet it remains woefully inadequate insofar as remote desktops/VNCs which I do like to use whenever I'm interacting with my Raspberry Pi. As it stands right now though? Fedora Workstation as an "engineered" release meant to make all this crap play together somewhat nicely gets the job done. Mind you, the correct answer's still Artix-OpenRC with XLibre any day of the week, but as a "lazy man's bleeding edge Linux distro," Fedora's pretty damn ace if you're willing to bite your tongue on your biases. Plus, it's kinda nice not having to manage AUR packages or the AUR "helpers" that get in the way more often than not (COUGH COUGH YAY COUGH COUGH) when the official repositories and RPM Fusion already have all my needs comfortably met, along with a good 85-90% of my wants. Anything that isn't available is either a Flatpak, an AppImage, or a COPR repo away (i.e. ungoogled-chromium).

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Wayland is almost "good enough," still not "adequate," let alone "excellent" and won't ever be due to design philosophy outsourcing things to compositors with no fixed specification, yet it remains woefully inadequate insofar as remote desktops/VNCs which I do like to use whenever I'm interacting with my Raspberry Pi.

I was just listening to the lunduke dhh interview, just a bit after reading your post. And those together got me thinking about this.

A lot of people especially here view putting the work onto the DE, or the compositor as a negative. And maybe in some cases it is. And it might feel like a downgrade when you are a gnome or kde user. I really don't know because I don't care for either.

In the case of window managers particularly in the case of hyprland. That design decision ended up being what allowed hyprland to do all of the things it does so well. Having the effects, and animations tied into the window manager has allowed it to get really smooth animations, and smooth compositing. Something I have never been able to fully replicate with a picom fork, and usually then its way less efficient. For instance moving workspaces. It will have a little animation that moved in the direction of the workspace. On xorg with a picom fork, its just the same direction everytime and if anything it makes movement more disorienting than if there were no animations at all.

Those aren't a huge deal for functionality (other than picom generally being more computationally heavy than just using hyprland). But one of the things, that has made me stick with hyprland specifically, is how well put together and complete it feels, while still giving me the work flow, and general feeling of the window managers I liked on X11. Since I've moved over to hyprland for the majority of the time, when I go back to most of the x11 window managers I used most of them feel a bit thrown together in comparison. And they especially don't integrate well with compositors, not to the level of hyprland.

Of course, if someone is just coming in, having never used a window manager of any kind. When they open it for the first time, and are greeted with the default config, having never configured anything through a config file. There is a good chance they will write it off right then, and they especially won't feel the same way I do about it. But for people that already use tiling window managers, it really is one of the better options around. And I've tried them all at this point.