The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

I'm on a new laptop now because my old one died one week ago today, at least the wireless connection part which is important. I had a backup computer on which I installed Ubuntu and holy fuck I remember why I hate Linux. Do you enjoy constantly installing updates several times throughout the day? Yes, no one can hack you because half your shit doesn't work because you don't spend all day every day updating everything for basic functionality.

I am a Luddite who wanted privacy and they lied to me about how easy it is. They LIED! They went on the Internet, and just lied.

Harumph.
 
Ubuntu is god-awful. It's like everything that's wrong with windows with none of the advantages.

what would be a good little cheapie laptop ($300?) to use as a full-commit platform to try out linux and/or BSD?

I'd go with something at least Skylake and above for an old Notebook personally. Even former expensive business models you can get for around $200 used. Preferably I'd go with anything beginning with Kaby Lake because that's the point where you get usable x265/V9 decoding in hardware. Skylake is fast enough to do it in software at reasonable bitrates to e.g. 1080p, but hardware decoding will be better for the battery. If you want to run a lightweight Linux the Core M processors are pretty good, are as fast and faster than more current Celerons and are often in devices that are fanless. (No mechanical parts in an old notebook you might have to replace and which might or might not be available as spare part anymore for an not-inflated price) Also fanless devices are just nicer. You see a lot of these devices popping up with refurbishers because I'm guessing they're not "Win11 compatible" which for Linux, does not matter. The better hardware decoding features of later generations are not only interesting for videos from the net, but also for streaming of programs from your more powerful PC, which is a thing you can do in Linux.

Always consider this: The speed of a given CPU in such a mobile device is highly dependent on how good the cooling is, many business notebooks have reasonable cooling, many of these cheap more recent consumer-grade "Netbooks" do not, so even if they might have a faster CPU on paper, it'll quickly run into thermal limits, applying throttling and be slower.

Apropos thermal limits: Some intel devices have RAPL values predefined in their firmware (and possibly locked down so you can't change them) some do not. RAPL basically tells a SoC "ok, there's enough cooling for you to dissipate this amount of watts, try to stay in that bracket". As you can imagine, it affects speed, but also how hot the device gets. Many manufacturers just let 'er rip until the SoC runs into thermal limits which is not great for the hardware (but probably looks better in benchmarks and makes a better first impression) especially since the battery which is often in the area doesn't like to be heated to e.g. 60C. If no RAPL limits are set, you can set them in Linux and for mobiles I'd always advise it. Properly set, most devices barely get warm no matter what you do and while they might not clock as high as without limits, will also never need to limit themselves to ridiculously low speeds as it happens when thermal throttling sets in and will be able to run at their (limited) clock with a sustained load stably. It also of course can improve battery lifetime greatly as a secondary effect. I don't know if Windows screws with RAPL, no Linux distro I know of does. I'd consider reasonable RAPL limits pre-set in the firmware as a sign of engineering quality.

A few additional info bits in no particular order:

Try to stick to devices with only an iGPU. dGPU&iGPU combos can still be problematic in Linux sometimes and you can run into a situation where things will straight up just not work for the particular device that you bought. Linux can still be full of such "landmines" when it comes to mobile devices.

When I looked into older convertibles, I noticed that there's an alarming amount of people reporting problems with Dell batteries just straight up dying, I'd look into that too.

Don't get anything with an god-awful 1366x768 TN screen which are very popular in this area for cost cutting measures. You will not enjoy it. IPS or bust for a mobile device, alone for the viewing angles.

4 GB of RAM are fine in Linux if you know what you're doing, 8 GB of RAM are great. If you don't have specific use cases where you know you'll need more, you're comfortably set with 8 in most cases.

While it's true that Lenovo is largely a meme these days and some of the (especially non-Thinkpad series) Lenovo devices are downright flimsy, Lenovo has an largely unmatched support in Linux in many areas regarding platform-specific features and quirks, especially when it comes to the battery. With most Lenovo devices you get full control over the battery in Linux and can script how far to charge it, and can even start and stop charging and discharging manually. If you plan to use the device a lot connected to AC, reasonable settings here can greatly prolong battery life. You do not get any of these options with most other manufacturers, even though you might get controls in firmware. Keeping a mobile device connected all the time and charged to 100% is often not good for the battery.
 
If you can find a cheap ThinkPad x220 or x230 they're pretty decent and have known good Linux compatability. Prices are inflated for the hardware that you get. They're starting to show their age though and get fucked by VP9 streams above 720p. Don't buy a ThinkPad made after 2016, Lenovo stopped giving a fuck after the xx60 series.
thanx for the recs...I used to use Lenovo (actually the X220/230 era) for Windoze . I liked that aux battery you could clip on the bottom and I like the pointer stick
They used to be great about service if it failed...sent you the box, got it done and sent it back. I WAS a Lenovo loyalist b/c of how they handled their shit
BUT they really got bad and fucked me. I sent one in and after a bunch of calls, they just started lying to me.
Like I asked "OK, you physically have the unit. You can actually put your hand on it"
and they would be "yes, it's in the box stack right by me"
after a bunch of assurances it turns out FedEx still had it.
The manager said "well,you should have checked with FedEx"...but you assholes told me you had it.

Apparently I'm not the only one. I talked to a guy on a sig who had the same problem, but when he got his back..it was someone else's business machine (with all the data on it) - he sent me the records as a backup in case of litigation. it was not "tales from the internet"

So I'm done with Lenovo because of their really shitty ops and how they'll fuck loyal customers now
 
Last edited:
Download thing, run thing. Its the Windows experience :)
If you want the Windows experience either use AppImages like @Celebrate Nite said or just use Windows at that point. AppImages can be useful for packaging old software with not-so widely available dependencies or games for example and it doesn't need a package manager unlike Snap packages do.
Snap just reeks of "reinventing the wheel" when it comes to sandboxing applications (does it even properly sandbox apps? :\)
 
If all these go through a suid binary and also give direct access to hardware devices inside the sandbox then the security aspect is uh, "negligible".

I have very unique system setups and every time I tried these prefab solutions they didn't work because they made vast assumptions about my system, from libraries to access to certain things, so I don't think any of them are made with a lot of care and I wouldn't trust them that way. Then again, why would you trust it if you haven't made it yourself? That's just asking for it IMHO.

The modern attitude about lenovo is interesting. I was thinking about picking up a damaged convertible unit I saw very cheap to have something similar to compare my Fujitsu convertible to, as that is apparently my hobby now. Maybe I'll pull the trigger to see if the attitude is justified. I never was a Lenovo fanboy so they never disappointed me.
 
The modern attitude about lenovo is interesting. I was thinking about picking up a damaged convertible unit I saw very cheap to have something similar to compare my Fujitsu convertible to, as that is apparently my hobby now. Maybe I'll pull the trigger to see if the attitude is justified. I never was a Lenovo fanboy so they never disappointed me.
Fair enough on not being a fanboy.

Mine was all based on a business / business travel use model.
So good (stellar not needed, but good) out-of-the-box performance, biz/travel friendly features and tech support/service were the driving factors
Total user drone shit

I doubt you could do an accurate test/comparison of my (former) attitude these days - you sound like more of a HW jock and for me...the world has moved on Gunslinger
 
He also has made the point in previous videos that nothing is going to get adopted if it feels "open source", AKA, janky as hell and you need to do 4 extra steps to do anything that a corporate OS does as a default to cover 99% of use cases.

You can see it on Linux all the time, every single desktop environment sucks compared to Windows or IOS, even when you can tweak some of them to kind of emulate some behaviors, there is still not a single one that just copies Windows, because every single open source developer feels like they "know better" than Micro$oft and the 30 years of cumulative updates meant to make an OS as intuitive and productive as possible by teams paid hundreds of millions of dollars to do just that, regardless of what you think of the backend. The result is there is no real desktop competition for Windows, just people who don't actually work on computers on IOS and tech savvy power users with high tolerance for dealing with bullshit on Linux. I've given up on trying to convince anyone to use Linux unless i know they have a comp science degree and are trying to setup a server, its not worth my time.
I've had a pretty good time with Manjaro/Plasma on Pi4 8GB the last couple of weeks, but I haven't done anything complicated with it and won't until I stick it on a real x86 desktop.

SteamOS 3 could probably make another good stab at Windows, but I don't see a catalyst for people to switch to it, other than it being the default shipped OS such as on the Steam Deck. Other companies would need to join in to get more units shipped, but they will be wary of the previous Steam Machine fizzle.
 
I've had a pretty good time with Manjaro/Plasma on Pi4 8GB the last couple of weeks, but I haven't done anything complicated with it and won't until I stick it on a real x86 desktop.

SteamOS 3 could probably make another good stab at Windows, but I don't see a catalyst for people to switch to it, other than it being the default shipped OS such as on the Steam Deck. Other companies would need to join in to get more units shipped, but they will be wary of the previous Steam Machine fizzle.
I don't mean there aren't usable desktop experiences, but it really only works until you try to figure out how to, for example, change the scroll speed on a chrome based browser because for some reason its slower than on other programs, then you realize there is no solution that doesn't involve installing extra packages and writing scripts and making those scripts executable on boot...

I liked Manjaro, but so far Pop OS is what i would recommend as it looks much better integrated, probably because its made by a single private company with employees working to ship a software solution that will serve as a sales point for their hardware. It's dock based, though, so its meant to look pretty rather than being used for desktop productivity, a trend I fucking despise.

I still wouldn't recommend it to anyone who has my phone number and isn't already a linux guy.
 
I've had a pretty good time with Manjaro/Plasma on Pi4 8GB the last couple of weeks, but I haven't done anything complicated with it and won't until I stick it on a real x86 desktop.

SteamOS 3 could probably make another good stab at Windows, but I don't see a catalyst for people to switch to it, other than it being the default shipped OS such as on the Steam Deck. Other companies would need to join in to get more units shipped, but they will be wary of the previous Steam Machine fizzle.
Steam just need to sell Deck at cost dirt cheap for 4 years, then everyone will buy one. They'll be able to make the money back in game sales after that, and maybe up the price of the console once it has market share.
 
Whatever you do, avoid Dell. I had one Dell laptop charger fail and it would not charge the battery without an Authorized™️ charger, despite it the same charger another HP laptop was using. Dell and HP uses the same chargers.
Hahaha, meanwhile some months ago I started using a Dell laptop charger for my HP because it's better than the one I was using at the time.
 
Hahaha, meanwhile some months ago I started using a Dell laptop charger for my HP because it's better than the one I was using at the time.
Yeah the HP laptop don't care even if I plugged in the Dell charger, meanwhile the Dell laptop won't charge, even when using a CLEARLY OVERSIZED 230W HP POWER BRICK meant for HP docking stations because it can't guarantee the brick can supply enough current. Here's some hack to make Dell happy:
 
Laptop Linux is a fucking meme, but Laptop BSD is a fucking nightmare. At least with Linux, the sheer volume of sloppily written firmware and drivers from 10-15+ years ago are able to power a surprising amount of wireless cards, ethernet adapters, bluetooth chips, and the like.

(Free/Open)BSD aren't necessarily terrible on laptops, but proper support for shit like suspend/hibernate, battery optimisations, firmware, drivers, etc is implicitly limited to the laptops that (Free/Open)BSD developers actively use as test machines or daily drivers.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Safir
Laptop Linux is a fucking meme
Eh is ok, at least on older machines. You might not get that older Skylake into PC10 state as efficiently as a Win10 might under ideal circumstances but then your Linux (hopefully) doesn't have three billion background tasks that wake the CPU up as often as it happens on windows so the consumed wattage ends up the same, more or less. Maybe Linux on the current gen xxxtreme gamer laptop with RGB programmable keyboard wouldn't be any fun but I had a pretty good experience with a Skylake convertible and now I'm curious if the Kabylake one that's coming will be on the same level. Modern s2idle works pretty good on my convertible too and puts the entire device down to 0.5W of power consumption, but with the capability of an (almost) latency free wakeup and even wake-up via WLAN magic packet is working. I am as astonished as you are. I even got pinch-to-zoom and finger scrolling working with it's touchscreen and firefox, can you believe it?

That's so much for a business device. On my consumer grade ryzen desktop suspend got broken again somewhere in 6.x. Suspend always works but it's 50:50 if it'll actually wake up. Heh.

Main problem with Linux (and I bet with *BSD) is the lack of custom quirk coding on dodgy implementations these OSes just don't have the resources for, so they stick to the book working the hardware finding out that some hardware is not that neatly implemented in real-life circumstances. Also sheer resources needed implementing all the details of modern hardware. My 4650G Pro is not new by any means (especially if you read the GPU thread, I feel some people in there would be willing and find it reasonable to donate it to a computer museum given the chance) but there's still recent additions in the kernel to support it's gen better and the work isn't even finished yet.

There's often workarounds though, like setting the RAPL values for your laptop yourself so it'll be as power efficent as when the manufacturers windows software tool does it in a hidden and corpo "hold on, we are optimizing your experience!" BS way, or unbinding the "quirky" usb hub before suspend so it won't immediately wake up again but if you don't know this stuff, you will not have the best experience. That's why I often tell people to just stick to windows/mac. Year of the Linux desktop? I sincerely hope never, because that would automatically mean they've taken a lot of freedom away from me.

Other than that, I find it very hard to like any mobile device really, since I'm not the kind of guy who gets the newest best computer every year and I like things to last and be repairable, and I think as we all know most mobile devices nowadays are the antithesis of that. They want you to throw it away and get the new one and it flows into the design. Now that ten year old computers still make decent non-gaming-machines in many cases this incentive for the manufacturers to make their shit not last gets bigger every passing year.
 
Back