The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[pylosurf]

I use Xfce4 and as I understand it it's substantially more lightweight than KDE.

Xfce4 has been my daily driver since Gnome3, and it's fantastic, very snappy.

For people new to Linux: it's worth noting that you can install multiple desktop environments at the same time. At the log-in screen, you will usually find an icon or menu (upper right corner on my system) to choose which desktop environment to use when you log in. It's extremely easy to switch back and forth to try things out.

Xfce4 is very lightweight, so it's easy and low overhead to install it alongside Gnome/KDE/whatever to give it a try.

 

[ghastlyretard]

Xfce4 is very lightweight, so it's easy and low overhead to install it alongside Gnome/KDE/whatever to give it a try.

That's cool, but all that matters is that the mouse on the wall paper is cute.

I've tried Xfce4, but I got put off by the global bar at the top. I've never liked that style of window manager.

 

[DavidS877]

That's cool, but all that matters is that the mouse on the wall paper is cute.

I've tried Xfce4, but I got put off by the global bar at the top. I've never liked that style of window manager.

You do realize you can change that, right?

 

[ghastlyretard]

You do realize you can change that, right?

Why would I change the mouse? It's adorable.

I figured I could, but at the time I wasn't interested in figuring that out - the reason I looked into it was because it was when KDE dropped X11 support by default, and I found out about the X11 support being broken out into another package before I found a solution to the global bar.

 

[Anti Snigger]

I discovered today that in a Makefile by including -MMD -MP in my CFLAGS, and then adding -include $(OBJS:.o=.d) at the bottom, the GCC parser will catalog include dependencies when it parses files, so your makefiles will have full awareness of which headers a source file is dependent on. This completely eliminates any weird instances of changing a header and having to use -B, and it's also compatible with .inc files.

 

[innocent jogger]

That's cool, but all that matters is that the mouse on the wall paper is cute.

I've tried Xfce4, but I got put off by the global bar at the top. I've never liked that style of window manager.

I say this unironically, you should probably stick with Windows, saar.

 

[Akerman]

I liked this overview, this guy seems to be a hidden gem of Linux content. He doesn't dumb shit down too much, and he keeps it approachable. I also like how the Linux world just stops when Linus has to go visit his family or go to some wedding. Makes me wonder what will happen after he is gone.

Also I feel kinda bad for any BcacheFS sisters in here, that project seems to be a mess.

Spoiler: Overview

General Updates​

• Linus Torvalds' Note: Linus mentioned that Kernel 6.16 was released on schedule, but the upcoming 6.17 release might be challenging for him due to personal events like a wedding and a big birthday, requiring him to travel [00:20].
• KVM and Intel TDX Support: A major feature is KVM's compatibility with Intel Trust Domain Extension (TDX) VMs [00:50]. TDX enhances confidentiality by encrypting VM memory and enforcing separation from the host via a dedicated chip in the CPU [02:28], making it impossible for a malicious host to access VM data [02:52].
• ext4 Performance Improvement: The ext4 file system sees a 37% performance gain in large sequential I/O workloads by transitioning from pages to "folios" [03:59]. Folios bundle multiple memory pages, allowing for more efficient operations like setting read-only permissions [05:01].
• Bcachefs and Kent Overstreet Controversy: Kent Overstreet, the creator of Bcachefs, was removed from the kernel development [06:17]. This decision was made by Linus because Kent added a new feature during a release candidate phase, which is reserved for testing and bug fixes, not new features [07:18].
• OpenVPN DCO Driver: A new OpenVPN Data Channel Offload (DCO) driver has been added to the kernel, offering an 8x speed improvement over the traditional user-space implementation [10:51].

Architecture-Specific Changes​

• x86: New Kconfig build-time optimization for march=native [11:56], and AES-XTS cipher optimization for AVX-512 processors [12:25].
• AMD: AMD SBI now has its own subsystem [12:39], a new, unexplained SPI driver was added [13:42], and the AMD Pstate driver now honors the BIOS minimum CPU frequency request [14:27]. AMD CPUs from Zen1 onwards can now report the cause of system resets in the kernel log [15:05]. KVM for AMD now supports the allowed_SEV feature in the virtual machine control block [16:25].
• Intel: Full support for Advanced Performance Extension (APX) [18:40], five-level paging is now unconditional [19:17], CPUs report outdated microcode as a vulnerability [19:52], and a new overclocking watchdog driver was added [20:06]. The platform temperature control interface is enabled, allowing user space to set maximum temperatures [20:37]. Speed Select Technology - Turbo Frequency (SST-TF) v2 support [21:17], and updated Pstate driver with energy-aware scheduling for hybrid platforms without symmetric multi-threading [22:12].
• ARM: Support for the ARM scalable matrix extension [26:09] and lazy preempt for ARM64 [27:00].
• LoongArch: Multi-core scheduler support [27:44], MSeal support [28:08], stack leak protection [28:29], and support for up to 248 cores [28:44].
• RISC-V: getrandom support in VDSO for 16x faster performance [29:11], KVM is no longer experimental [30:08], MSeal support [30:16], optimized RAID 6 recovery [30:21], and support for SBI FWFD extensions for firmware control [30:29]. New extensions like SV-inval, Zicbop, Zba, and Sci-Five's matrix multiplication instructions for AI [31:44].

GPU Support​

• Nvidia's Blackwell and Hopper GPUs are now supported through the Nouveau DRM driver [34:30].
• Intel is working on Z3 integrated graphics and has added fan speed support for ZGPUs [35:01].
• AMD KFD driver now supports RISC-V [36:28].

File System Enhancements​

• VFS supports a "freeze" option for suspend and hibernation [37:08].
• XFS now allows atomic writes over multiple block chunks [38:13].
• NFS server supports larger I/O block sizes up to 4MB [39:06].
• Fuse and F2FS have performance improvements with folios, and EROFS can use Quick Assist Technology accelerators for better decompression [39:21].

Networking​

• TCP zero-copy transmit is now supported [40:46].
• Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP) was removed due to lack of use [41:06].

Miscellaneous​

• Apple T6020 range of PCIe controllers are now supported [41:38].
• Optimizations to the exit to user mode process show performance improvements across various architectures [42:10].
• Core dumps can now be sent over Unix sockets [43:32].
• GCC 8 is now the necessary minimum to compile the kernel [43:54].
• Reporting for soft lockups, hard lockups, and RCU stalls in SYSFS is now available [44:34].
• Rust continues to gain more abstractions, particularly in DRM and memory management [46:12].

 

[pylosurf]

I've tried Xfce4, but I got put off by the global bar at the top.

In case anyone wants to move the Xfce4 panel to the bottom: Right click the panel, Panel, Panel Preferences, uncheck "Lock panel". That will enable a "grab bar" at the left edge of the panel which you can use to move the panel to the bottom. Afterwards, re-check "Lock panel" and you're good to go. Granted it's obscure, but you only have to do it once.

 

[ghastlyretard]

>being a cool dude

I'll give it a shot later today maybe. Work is slow, and I'm looking for ways to kill time that don't involve teasing my coworker for gooning.

 

[Slav Power]

it's worth noting that you can install multiple desktop environments at the same time.

And then have like five different terminal emulators and control panels that won't be removed after uninstalling the metapackage you've used to install the DE, nor will they get removed after you try and remove all unused packages. And if you remove all the software that you don't want, you'll still be left with a heap of leftovers scattered around.

Ideally, use a VM or a test installation to hop between DE's to get a feel of which one you like the best, and then do a clean install with just that.

 

[Anti Snigger]

And then have like five different terminal emulators and control panels that won't be removed after uninstalling the metapackage you've used to install the DE, nor will they get removed after you try and remove all unused packages. And if you remove all the software that you don't want, you'll still be left with a heap of leftovers scattered around.

Ideally, use a VM or a test installation to hop between DE's to get a feel of which one you like the best, and then do a clean install with just that.

I have i3 installed alongside KDE, it actually works well, and it's helpful for when I'm trying to lock in. I hate konsole tho, I'm a tilix man

 

[Slav Power]

i3

i3 has practically zero dependencies, try installing KDE, XFCE, LXQT and MATE on one install, see just how shitted up your launch menus are gonna be, then try to uninstall all but one of these and see how much shit you're gonna be left with. It's the biggest blight of what's meant to be Linux's strongest side. I mentioned before that having one standard set of packages for shit like the control panel, thumbnail rendering and whatnot shared between all DE's would be the best way to do DE's, but a) it would involve ripping out too much legacy code and b) xkcd 927.

Though it would make DE hopping much easier, would cut down on package bloat, and it would help with a lot of problems where one DE might do things one way, but the other does it differently and you have to account for that when you're setting up your desktop. Think Microsoft redoing Windows in a way where dwm.exe works like a TWM from Windows 1.0, explorer.exe is what gives you a shell with window borders, but is now independent and you can write your own shell that can utilize dwm.exe for everything from window rendering to thumbnail fetching however you want. Which, of course, would be awesome, but just like with the idea of Linux DE's standardizing those components, it can only happen in an alternate universe.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

Also I feel kinda bad for any BcacheFS sisters in here, that project seems to be a

Anyone sane, or who has data they care about won't be running an experimental filesystem anyway.

And then have like five different terminal emulators and control panels that won't be removed after uninstalling the metapackage you've used to install the DE

At least on arch you can just uninstall the meta package with

pacman -Rns kde

Or whatever the desktop is.
and it will remove everything with it. The only thing that are going to be left are some files in your home directory. Because pacman won't touch your home directory.

Maybe other package managers don't handle removing dependencies as well though.

 

[Slav Power]

Maybe other package managers don't handle removing dependencies as well though.

Maybe, what I'm saying is my experience with apt-get and most people will be experiencing that on Debian, Ubuntu or Mint.

 

[⠠⠠⠅⠑⠋⠋⠁⠇⠎ ⠠⠠⠊⠎ ⠠⠠⠁ ⠠⠠⠋⠁⠛]

Maybe, what I'm saying is my experience with apt-get and most people will be experiencing that on Debian, Ubuntu or Mint.

You just use apt-get autoremove, it's trivial and implemented in a safe way where you can't do this by accident. The DPKG/APT tools even suggest doing this when you remove packages to tidy up no longer required dependencies.

This may be broken by stupid decisions by the Ubuntu niggers to mark ALL packages installed by the initial installer, including dependencies, as manually installed.

 

[Anti Snigger]

try installing KDE, XFCE, LXQT and MATE on one install

That sounds like a PITA ngl.
Installing i3 had a bizarre benefit, the KDE notification display program hard crashed one day, and some other program replaced it. I actually liked the alternate one, and discovered it was something called dunst, and so I made the KDE crash permanent

 

[Dirty Harry]

Xfce4 has been my daily driver since Gnome3, and it's fantastic, very snappy.

For people new to Linux: it's worth noting that you can install multiple desktop environments at the same time. At the log-in screen, you will usually find an icon or menu (upper right corner on my system) to choose which desktop environment to use when you log in. It's extremely easy to switch back and forth to try things out.

Xfce4 is very lightweight, so it's easy and low overhead to install it alongside Gnome/KDE/whatever to give it a try.

You can but I would strongly recommend different profiles for each environment to prevent conflicts. Also multiple environments mean multiple apps for the same job, like Caja with Mate vs Thunar for XFCE Mate which are both file managers which can clutter up things. The Desktop startup managers will sometimes conflict, using a non-GDM manager for Gnome will cause some features in Gnome not work right like power options...

But no harm in trying, tweaking, and playing around. Use Timeshift before installing another environment, that way if something is wrong or you just want to revert back, it's pretty simple. I can't get into tiling managers like i3, I've tried, just don't like the workflow but I know some people do.

 

[wafflesies]

You can but I would strongly recommend different profiles for each environment to prevent conflicts. Also multiple environments mean multiple apps for the same job, like Caja with Mate vs Thunar for XFCE Mate which are both file managers which can clutter up things. The Desktop startup managers will sometimes conflict, using a non-GDM manager for Gnome will cause some features in Gnome not work right like power options...

But no harm in trying, tweaking, and playing around. Use Timeshift before installing another environment, that way if something is wrong or you just want to revert back, it's pretty simple. I can't get into tiling managers like i3, I've tried, just don't like the workflow but I know some people do.

i noticed on some distros like gentoo, if i installed sway by itself and tried to manually build everything myself, i would run into problems with some programs not launching, like some games in wine
if i installed mate instead, and then installed sway on top of it, the programs would work
however i would also have stuff like the mate power manager running in sway with no way to edit it outside of mate
i always just recommend people keep 1 desktop environment installed, especially if you're running an xorg DE and a wayland WM or vice versa, you'll need wayland equivilants of most of your xorg applications that shipped with your DE

 

[Betonhaus]

how well does Linux handle choosing dependencies for mix and match configurations? like if you're installing a DE how does it know to install some DE specific dependencies if wayland is installed or to install different dependencies if X11 is installed?

 

[Dirty Harry]

I know with Ubuntu if you install XFCE/Xubuntu on it, it won't give you the option of using Wayland with XFCE but will offer either X11 or Wayland (default) for Gnome. I don't think X11 and Wayland have any conflicts between the two.