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- Mar 30, 2023
it provides absolutely nothing, it's a marketing scam. That's why we have Xlibre.
The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice
- Thread starter tehpope
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- Sep 22, 2023
Given the state of the culture surrounding Linux corporate development and the fact they always shout about Wayland being sooooo much more secure than X11, there's only ONE conclusion I can come to. It's why they wouldn't let screen shot apps capture other windows, why the thought of apps having access to the clipboard sends shivers down their spines. It's because they all have CSAM on their PCs, and you don't need accessibility options for the visually impaired if they can't even look at CP so why do they need a computer anyway?
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- Sep 26, 2024
I've had issues with both X11 and Wayland. I had a game that wouldn't run from command line unless I forced wine to use wayland, and I have a specific older opengl game that will not run under wayland at all so I have to use xwayland. The Linux desktop experience is very hacky because of all the fragmentation. It's difficult to triangulate problems because there are so many variables. It's still not normie friendly in a lot of ways.
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- Mar 17, 2019
Yes. As long as you aren't using some shitty alpha prototype software like Wayland, this has worked since time immemorial. Programs like xearth, xmountains, xphoon etc have been writing to the root window for decades. I really like xmountains. There are probably tools to do this for random applications.
To the extent that this is a problem, this is a problem caused by the malicious fragmenters. Which is to say, wayland scum.
This is a very good point. From their point of view, it doesn't matter that Wayland is barely even usable for those with 20-20 vision let alone the blind- the only blind people they would care about can just read 'erotica' about raping little kids with lynx at the text console with a console screen reader. At least until the same sort of freaks decide they need to break text terminals next.
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- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
Apparently, x11 codebase is a plate of spaghetti and it’s difficult to maintain, and a total rewrite runs risk of breaking applications that rely heavily on its current behavior.
That’s all i got, idk why everyone is bent on switching over.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2020
The problem is that these days the "root" window is no longer the root window. Every "desktop environment" writes its own window over the real X11 root window.
If you're using XFCE for instance, you can get the 'fake' root window with:
(I don't use anything but XFCE so I'm not sure how to make that command more generic.)
then you can use an app that's smart enough like mpv to play video there:
The problem as reported above is that clicking the desktop no longer passes through to the desktop environment and any icons also go away.
If you're using XFCE for instance, you can get the 'fake' root window with:
MYROOT=`xprop -root XFCE_DESKTOP_WINDOW | cut -d ' ' -f 5`(I don't use anything but XFCE so I'm not sure how to make that command more generic.)
then you can use an app that's smart enough like mpv to play video there:
mpv --wid=$MYROOT MATI-2025-08-29.mp4The problem as reported above is that clicking the desktop no longer passes through to the desktop environment and any icons also go away.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2024
I would say openrc is a good choice. Like @analrapist said. Gentoo uses it. Alpine also uses it, and between those two it has pretty good support, and testing. Using it is fairly easy once you understand how it works, as opposed to systemd. It's fairly simple. You can enable services with rc-update add <service-name> then if you can't put the run level it puts them in the default runlevel, or you can do rc-update add <service-name> boot for instance. to add it to the boot runlevel. to remove them it's basically the same thing but rc-update del instead of add. starting, stopping and restarting services is done with rc-service <service-name> start|stop|restart . and really that's all you need to know to use it on a basic leve. The only other thing, is knowing about /etc/conf.d which is a directory services put files in that can be used to configure the services. So you can look in there at the files provided, and see if there is anything you want to, or need to change.
The services themselves, aren't basically just shell scripts. Not exactly just normal shell scripts, but they basically are, and they provide some helper functions you can use to write them. That really shouldn't be necessary for almost anyone though, as far as I know everything that needs an init script to run will be provided by the repos. The really important thing I remember from artix, is you need to make sure you actually install the package that provides it. So they will have a package with -openrc at the end of the name. Make sure you install that.
Not sure what the actual cause of the problems you had are. I always just do the manual install though. Because I was already used to doing it with arch. It doesn't sound like anything that would be caused by the init system though. That said. if you don't have an actual reason to use artix over arch. And don't actually care about the init system. You will probably be fine with normal arch. If you do for sure what an alternative init, or you are doing it for the convenience of having an official xlibre package. You should be fine.
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- Sep 22, 2023
This would be a big benefit, for sure. I haven't wanted to attempt the Xlibre install on my desktop because I have an nvidia card and understand there to be some bullshit about the drivers. Haven't followed up on what the situation is now. But regarding the init, I haven't noticed issues with systemd so I won't notice a different init probably
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- Aug 31, 2024
If you dont regularly create or modify systemd service files then using a different init system is easy and you wont notice 99% of the time. Openrc would be also be my recommendation just off the fact its the only one with pipewire startup scripts so you don't have to manually add them to your desktop environments autostart settings. Artix will tell you what you need to input in order to enable openrc scripts when you install them.
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- Apr 1, 2024
It tends to make things like multiple monitor set ups, easier. Especially if you have monitors with different refresh rates, and resolutions. It's something I have heard a lot of complaints about with xorg. It could be a skill issue from the people that complain about, but wayland makes it either automatic, or nearly automatic, like just adding a couple lines in the config of the window manager you are using. and you are done.
And the security of xorg, isn't something the wayland people use as a reason xorg is bad. It's something I've seen security people say that aren't linux users point out, as a problem (along with other issues that aren't relevant for this). And it's something that the other major, modern operating systems of today don't deal with. Even if they do have security issues in other areas. And even if you isolate the rest of the application from everything else with sandboxing or some other way, if it's running in an X server they are going to be able to at least see your input. like typing a password. And it's a particularly easy exploit on X.
To be clear about what wayland actually doesn't allow. It doesn't give every application the permission to communicate openly with eachother, instead they rely on desktop-portals to do that in a way that asks to for permission first, then you allow them to communicate. So things that share your screen need to use a portal, and be granted permission. What that doesn't effect. Is screenshots. You can still take screenshots of your desktop with no portal running, and you won't need to be asked permission to do that.
And to play devils advocate, I don't think it's about forcing wayland, at least outside of the redhat/freedesktop ecosystem. The two biggest linux desktops adopted wayland years ago now, and have split development work between supporting xorg, and wayland. Having to test things to make sure they work properly on both. If they are both intending to move to the wayland way of doing things, it makes sense for them to eventually drop X, which basically has the effect of "forcing" wayland. But really it's a logical decision, that in the end will end up with more time spent solving wayland specific issues, and less work spent on supporting something that they aren't planning to keep. But as an end user, you still do have the choice to use xorg with another desktop.
Xlibre is the other answer to at least some of the problems wayland is trying to solve. I'm not sure it's planning to solve all of them yet. But eventually having some separation between clients in X, is a good thing. Cleaning up the codebase, probably cutting out things that are effectively useless for nearly anyone today running a linux desktop. I look forward to seeing how the project develops over time.
I do use xlibre. But I also use wayland. Because contrary to what people say here. wayland for me works fine, and in the case of compositing windows it's more efficient than any of the forks of picom I have ever used. Tends to give me a smoother, better looking display, and some drivers on xorg, have bad screentearing that tearfree doesn't fix. But I also use xlibre, because there are things I like about xorg, and I don't like the idea of leaving behind.
I really wouldn't take to much you see in this thread, that seriously. Wayland is better than you might believe if you just read what people say here. Xorg does have problems. But wayland does have problems too, that the wayland shills aren't great at acknowledging. But xorg shills are just as bad at it. Like anything it's two sides of the same coin.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2019
Wayland is great if you want to goon to anime between posting to reddit and writing rust code.
If you actually want precise control and interoperability between processes, even the "old and busted" X11 is better.
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- Apr 1, 2024
Do you mind elaborating a bit?
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2023
I imagine part of the resistance to Wayland is just people who tried it years ago, it was bad, and now they'll never give it another shot. My issue with it is every time I've used it I don't know I'm using it until something fucks up. When Plasma moved X11 support out into an extra package I didn't realize it until I tried to use ksnip and couldn't screen shot an area for a guide I was writing at work. Or when I installed Linux on my work laptop, I missed the selection for X11 at login and didn't realize it until I was trouble shooting an issue with my primary monitor changing at every restart.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2024
To be fair, that's a similar excuse to what Windowsfags use to avoid switching to Linux. "Drop-in replacements" at this scale simply do not exist, there's way too much that has changed.
Disclaimer: I use X11 and I'm not planning to switch any time soon.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Then by that logic I'm a pedophile because KeePassXC on Windows where all I keep is my passwords will blank out for all screen capture software. That, or KeePassXC is meant for safely storing child pornography, because that's the only reason you'd want to blank out certain windows for screen capture software.
I'm sure that with time XLibre will port all the good parts of Wayland such as window capture security, HDR and all the shit that is the main reason people use Wayland in the first place, and it'll become sorta this Windows' DWM equivalent, a window manager that just works and does everything that it needs to do without the user having to know what it does, and the devs having an easy time developing for it.
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- Sep 22, 2023
Got him.
I was mostly jesting, but my mind wouldn't get that far if there weren't so many troons and child abusers involved in orgs pushing Wayland as the future. Its been the future for almost 15 years now. The irony is once it's ready for prime time it'll be too old for them.
So I just tried the installer for Artix again, this time with the weekly release. Same deal, I confirmed it wants to do a msdos partition table and fails because it's trying to allocate beyond 2TB on the drive. I pulled the Windows drive out before attempting this, and when I put it back in to boot to windows it began doing the same weird shit with NICs and USB. I checked prior to attempting the install again and there are no visible partitions, so I can't tell what the fuck is going on. Syslog on Windows just says hardware IO errors and says to update drivers. Tried reinstalling latest and rolling back even, no luck.
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- Joined
- Mar 23, 2020
That is very weird. I've installed Artix on like 3 different computers and every single one has gone flawlessly. I'd make a bug report if I were you.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2019
Try https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Wayland_Known_Significant_Issues : If you poke around at the page history, you'll start to get a feel for all the missing Wayland functionality they've had to kludge around.
As we saw upthread in the "set primary display" brouhaha, Wayland devs would rather spend a year arguing about whether a feature should be implemented than a week actually implementing it.
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- Apr 1, 2024
I looked up ksnip. And their GitHub. I don't know how they are making a tool called ksnip, and all the functionality works on gnome. But that's what their GitHub says.
I would probably recommend flameshot. It works on wayland, and x11. And most people that want a screenshot tool with a lot of features use that. On x11 its probably one of the most recommended screenshot tools I see.
I like ones that works in a more unix command line way, like slurp where you just pipe it to other stuff to use it for screenshots. Doing this grim -g "$(slurp)" | wl-copy it uses slurp to select an area of the screen for grim to screenshot. Then that is piped to wl-copy which puts it in the clipboard. But you can do whatever you imagination comes up with, if the program you pipe it to takes an image as input.
Maybe that's part of why I don't run into any issues. I like going for simple tools that do their job well. And if they do, I keep using them. So instead of using imlib2 on wayland I use slurp. And things work for me like they did before.
Thats also the reason I use a window manager instead of a full desktop. I'm not experiencing the transition from gnome/kde x11 to Wayland. So I'm dealing with the tools they have, going into half baked Wayland versions.
I have a window manager, with the tools I add. And I add the ones that I've found work best over time. In functionality, my Wayland setup, and my x11 setup are identical. The only differences are the names of the commands that are tied to keybinds in my config file. But that doesn't matter to me. I just push the keys and they do what they are supposed to.
I do think some of the wayland devs are insufferable. And the project would be a lot further along without the kind of nitpicking bullshit they do.
I could come up with things I don't like about Wayland, because there are things I don't like about it. And problems. But they are completely different from most of the things I see people that actually hate Wayland say are problems.
But what I asked for, is how you are getting "precise control, and interoperability between processes", and how that is effected by using x11 or Wayland.