The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

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Ferryman said:
niggerbabble
Click to expand...
Surprisingly enough, Niri, despite being only about ~2 years old, actually has a full section in the official Guix cookbook dedicated to using cargo workspaces. Pretty neat.

2.2.1.2 Cargo Workspaces and Development Snapshots

In this example, we’ll package niri, which depends on development snapshots (also Cargo
workspaces here).
As we can’t ensure compatibility of a development snapshot, before executing cargo
generate-lockfile, we should modify Cargo.toml to pin it to a known working revision.
To use our packaged development snapshots, it’s also necessary to modify Cargo.toml
in a build phase, with a package-specific substitution pattern.
(define-public niri
(package
(name "niri")
(version "25.02")
(source (origin
(method git-fetch)
(uri (git-reference
(url "https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri")
(commit (string-append "v" version))))
(file-name (git-file-name name version))
(sha256
(base32
"0vzskaalcz6pcml687n54adjddzgf5r07gggc4fhfsa08h1wfd4r"))))
(build-system cargo-build-system)
(arguments
(list #:install-source? #f
#:phases
#~(modify-phases %standard-phases
(add-after 'unpack 'use-guix-vendored-dependencies
(lambda _
(substitute* "Cargo.toml"
(("# version =.*")
"version = \"*\"")
(("git.*optional")
"version = \"*\", optional")
(("^git = .*")
"")))))))
(native-inputs
(list pkg-config))
(inputs
(cons* clang
libdisplay-info
libinput-minimal
libseat
libxkbcommon
mesa
pango
pipewire
wayland
(cargo-inputs 'niri)))
(home-page "https://github.com/YaLTeR/niri")
(synopsis "Scrollable-tiling Wayland compositor")
(description
"Niri is a scrollable-tiling Wayland compositor which arranges windows in a
scrollable format. It is considered stable for daily use and performs most
functions expected of a Wayland compositor.")
(license license:gpl3+)))
niri has Cargo workspace dependencies. When packaging a Cargo workspace depen-
dency, parameter #:cargo-package-crates is required.
(define-public rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8f7
(let ((commit "fd3d8f7861a29c2eeaa4c393402e013578bb36d9")
(revision "0"))
(package
(name "rust-pipewire")
(version (git-version "0.8.0" revision commit))
(source
(origin
(method git-fetch)
(uri (git-reference
(url "https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire-rs.git")
(commit commit)))
(file-name (git-file-name name version))
(sha256
(base32 "1hzyhz7xg0mz8a5y9j6yil513p1m610q3j9pzf6q55vdh5mcn79v"))))
(build-system cargo-build-system)
(arguments
(list #:skip-build? #t
#:cargo-package-crates
''("libspa-sys" "libspa" "pipewire-sys" "pipewire")))
(inputs (cargo-inputs 'rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8f7))
(home-page "https://pipewire.org/")
(synopsis "Rust bindings for PipeWire")
(description "This package provides Rust bindings for PipeWire.")
(license license:expat))))
Don’t forget to modify all workspace members in (gnu packages rust-crates):
(define rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8f7 rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8f7)
(define rust-pipewire-sys-0.8.0.fd3d8f7 rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8f7)
...
(define rust-libspa-0.8.0.fd3d8f7 rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8f7)
(define rust-libspa-sys-0.8.0.fd3d8f7 rust-pipewire-0.8.0.fd3d8
 
1764823931095.png

KDEbros... we got too cocky...
 
Taser Confetti said:
It's infuriating. Discord besides the troon problem might be the least secure messaging system that exists. At least IRC was made in the ARPANET days when nobody even thought of security.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter much if a FOSS project's main communication and discussion channel is secure, as long as it does authentication of user messages properly so users aren't fooled about who's saying what. The problem is that they're handing the keys to the community to a proprietary vendor who may at a any given time paywall the communication channel, wipe the communication channel, commandeer the communication channel or do whatever other sort of fuckery with it, and there's no recourse to stop it.
 
My computer experience has been too smooth for too long, so I've spent much of the last week backing up everything on my computer (I'd been putting that off for months) and getting things set up after switching my distro. More seriously, ever since an Ubuntu release update fucked up and bricked my kernel last year I've found updating to be even more of a pain than it already is, so I'm figuring a rolling release distro is probably more convenient for me, plus I'm a little weary of Canonical's direction, and it would be nice to more likely have up-to-date versions of some stuff (the Protontricks and yt-dlp in the Canonical repository seemed to be broken for months). EndeavourOS has an installer that could immediately set me up with the same DE (LXQt) so that's convinient.

It's mostly worked out fine. After a little digging through packages, I got everythings set to look almost exactly the same as it was before. You can find just about everything in the package manager, and yay makes compiling emulators super easy, so that's nice. So far the only real trouble has been 1. PCManFM didn't have the file archiver set correctly at the start for some reason, so had to go into settings and find that so immediately extracting via right click drop down would work. 2. Struggled to get Fcitx5-Mozc working so I could type in Japanese for a while until I found the right place to shove a config file so Fcitx5 would actually activate. 3. Jollygood emulator isn't in the AUR and when I tried compiling it it couldn't find the path to its library files I compiled and installed first for some reason, forcing me to consult Google on what command line option needed to be run so it'd find them. 4. Cemu wouldn't compile in yay because of seemingly some fuckup on the part of whoever wrote the makefile so something wouldn't link correctly and it'd fail at 100% completion. I had to find what was wrong, what line to add to the PKGBUILD file to fix it, and what command to use to build and install outside yay so it'd use the modifiled instructions. And 5. This is on me but it turns out 7z doesn't save symbolic links correctly, so a few things I backed up didn't unpack correctly and I had to handfix them. Rather annoying.

Only real issue at this point is I need to figure out what font options to use to text looks presentable in both English and Japanese, because they don't give any options to pick a font for each language in the GUI menus, so it's quite difficult to find an option that looks good in one language and automatically uses another good looking font for the other language. I don't remember off the top of my head what I had set on the last install.
 
Retarded Weeb said:
Only real issue at this point is I need to figure out what font options to use to text looks presentable in both English and Japanese
Click to expand...
The go-to is usually noto-fonts + noto-fonts-cjk for best Unicode coverage, and ibm-plex also provides some sans-serif CJK glyphs.
Retarded Weeb said:
what command to use to build and install outside yay
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Yeah, good idea to get familiar with the usual git+makepkg flow before using helpers, just so you understand what they're doing. Also, I'm pretty sure yay should ask if you'd like to review PKGBUILD, and then if you want to edit it, but don't quote me on that.
 
Max Weber said:
The go-to is usually noto-fonts + noto-fonts-cjk for best Unicode coverage, and ibm-plex also provides some sans-serif CJK glyphs.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'm pretty sure this I was using before and couldn't remember.
Max Weber said:
Yeah, good idea to get familiar with the usual git+makepkg flow before using helpers, just so you understand what they're doing. Also, I'm pretty sure yay should ask if you'd like to review PKGBUILD, and then if you want to edit it, but don't quote me on that.
Click to expand...
I've compiled stuff from git clones before on Ubuntu, but maybe I should be looking more into how makepkg works here.
I don't recall yay asking something like that, unless I'm being blind (possible).
 
Retarded Weeb said:
snip
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I know you already got your stuff set up with EndeavourOS, but if I may be so bold, try fiddling with Fedora 43 on a spare drive. I've whinged at length about my woes with Red Hat and Fedora multiple times in this thread, but I still find myself recommending it despite my objections. Here's why I recommend it despite having such conflicting opinions and experiences with it:

a) It does the "lazy man's bleeding edge Linux distro" shtick exceptionally well. Latest Linux kernel, Wayland, systemd, Mesa, and assorted goodies all the same as Arch, and much faster than Ubuntu's capable of. No AUR, but RPM Fusion and COPR have you covered in the vast majority of cases where the official repos fall short.

b) If mainline Ubuntu's gonna be hopping over to a Wayland-only environment, you're much better off using the latest Fedora if you can tolerate near-vanilla versions of the latest GNOME Shell or KDE Plasma. There are Fedora spins that ship with Xorg still, my bias is toward Cinnamon.

c) Red Hat's done a lot of scummy shit, but they're the lesser evil right now. Debian's moving forward with hardcoding a rust dependency into apt at the same time that uutils broke so many things in Ubuntu 25.10. Red Hat's not the one breaking compatibility and API/ABI for a change.

d) You wanna talk about Poetterware? Shit's unavoidable mate, y'just can't avoid it now. Arch has systemd, basically any modern Linux distro with a graphical environment runs some variant of PipeWire instead of PulseAudio, need I go on? If you're gonna get some form of Poetterware in the "mainstream," and you're not inclined to go off the beaten path, Fedora's basically the best among unappealing options.

e) Historically, anyway, Fedora's ecosystem was just as supported as Debian/Ubuntu. Projects that shipped Linux binaries always had apt/rpm covered. It's all a dodgy mix of Flatpaks, AppImages, and Python scripts nowadays, but stuff like Wine still maintain their own repos for Fedora.
 
ProudSkibidiTolietAryan said:
Look I have 1TB of files on my computer, I have NO other disks to transfer that data. Because the info on there is valueable. and even if I did,
Click to expand...
Learn to steal or can't you afford a $99 HDD? This is must be bait. I swear you can dumpster dive and find some old PC's and one of them must have a TB or two in a not too bad condition. 1 TB is nothing, it's the above 4 TB - 12 TB range where the costs starts to accelerate into to a financial nightmare.
GrimPortents said:
fucking GNOME. I hate GNOME like you wouldn't believe.
Click to expand...
I don't get it, I use the Calendar thing in Linux Mint (Cinnamon), and it's a 100% pure calendar app, no internet, just a folder that can be backed up, I love it! Apparently it's a GNOME software.

What's so bad about the GNOME thing?
 
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Sneedmason said:
What's so bad about the GNOME thing?
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For context, there's GNOME as in the GNOME Foundation, GNOME as in the GNOME Desktop Environment, and there's GTK, which is a GUI toolkit developed maintained by GNOME, and used in all their software including the Desktop Environment, as well as myriad other (third-party) programs.

While some specific applications that come out of GNOME may or may not be good, the real problem is GNOME's attitude and conduct towards users and other developers. See, while they maintain GTK, they don't treat it as a general GUI toolkit as much as a GNOME Toolkit. They will often break or remove shit because that's better for their goals specifically, and everyone else can go fuck themselves. The DE shares the same attitude, actually, where they will remove or break features, and when users ask for them back, they will respond with the "usecase?" meme and NOTABUG/WONTFIX it. This is why there are forks of it from GNOME 2 and GNOME 3, because each version makes some decision that pisses people off enough to go do their own shit instead.
ebussy.jpg

They generally have a sort of "us vs. them" mentality with their software, where you either develop applications specifically for GNOME, or you're wrong. See this quote froma a ticket on Transmission's (a torrent client) tracker:
I guess you have to decide if you are a GNOME app, an Ubuntu app, or an XFCE app unfortunately.
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Or this issue in GNOME's own tracker, where they are asked to introduce support for xdg-decoration Wayland protocol to Mutter, and tell the users off, saying that if some program can't draw its own decorations, it's actually its fault for not following the spec!
Basically, they are arguably the biggest driving force behind the Linux desktop fragmentation.

As far as the DE and first-party apps go, you can take a look at this article to read some guy's thoughts, but I don't have much to say there.
 
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[GNOME] will often break or remove shit because that's better for their goals specifically, and everyone else can go fuck themselves.
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For an actual concrete example, there are screen recording and screenshotting utilities which worked in GNOME by getting an image of the current desktop via an official API. GNOME changed these requests to pop up an authentication widget asking the user if they want to allow the program to do that. This essentially broke the functionality of all these softwares. The developers went to check the source code of GNOME's own screenshot tool, to see an example of how to access the API without intrusive permission dialogs, to discover that GNOME just has a whitelist specifically for their own tools.
 
Max Weber said:
While some specific applications that come out of GNOME may or may not be good, the real problem is GNOME's attitude and conduct towards users and other developers.
Click to expand...
This is a broad issue with most corporate and or explicitly leftist FOSS projects, namely Gnome, Wayland and Rust. All of them have egotistical developers that bog the entire project down to the great disadvantage of actually competent contributors, consumers and all free software at large. Doing shit like this:
cigint said:
GNOME just has a whitelist specifically for their own tools
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sours literally everyone that isn't a footfag or tranny to entire project despite the many excellent tools and parts that are born of it. Wayland is no better or worse than X11, the #1 issue why people hate it so much is the cancerous EEE corporate cocksucker attitude it operates under. Same with Rust, same with Gnome. It just attracts a certain kind of person that is insufferable to work with.
 
Ferryman said:
Wayland is no better or worse than X11
Click to expand...
Yes it is because it is incomplete unlike X11 and due to that it fragments Linux desktop ever more. As in order to achieve something that is not in the spec yet widely used such as for example moving windows you need to rely on compositor. The biggest mistake that Wayland made was not providing standard way to do common things from the get go.
 
I was hoping Mental Outlaw was going to show something cool I could link to people curious about Linux but he ended up making find look like a chore. The title is misleading, this isn't a "shell trick", even without being pedantic, it's a single use case of find for a familiar problem many people have had before but the demonstration is sloppy. I also don't understand his fascination with ZorinOS. The same thing could be done in any decent file manager, including Windows file explorer and demonstrated in a 2 minute clip so not the best selling point or "shell trick" to get people to simplify a task if they're not already comfortable in the terminal.
 
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WielkiWapiesz2137 said:
Yes it is because it is incomplete unlike X11 and due to that it fragments Linux desktop ever more. As in order to achieve something that is not in the spec yet widely used such as for example moving windows you need to rely on compositor. The biggest mistake that Wayland made was not providing standard way to do common things from the get go.
Click to expand...
The point of Wayland is that it is a minimal protocol which handles composition and output, unlike X11 which is a lot more monolithic (and still no application isolation "by design" kek). It is a nice simple protocol that is dead easy to implement. The less the display server does, the better.

"Standards" in this case are a good way to say "nigger jail" because choice matters more than having a "right" way to do things. Arguing for there being a "standard" is like arguing in favor of systemd. Why aren't you using it? Its the "standard" way to do things, after all. I like Wayland for the same reason I hate what its devs and FreeDesktop/RedHat tried to do, and that is because the liberty of choice is the #1 most important facet of Free Software. Trying to sunset X is demonic, but that does not mean Wayland should be left to the dust. Being a cultist for either X11 or Wayland is retarded because it puts you on the same kind of divided island as the blue jew vs red jew of partisan politics, it leaves everyone worse off. Linux should not have "a" display server, it should have plural that users are able to choose from. Even the X11 vs Wayland duopoly is gay, maybe some upstart like Arcan can become usable enough for there to at least be a third option. I would rather have the choice to pick between 5 different compositors that can work if you tweak them enough over one that "just works". If I had my way and I could will it, I'd make Wayland alone do even less.

People, especially here, dickride XLibre because they see Wayland et al. as "the enemy" made by <trannies>, while XLibre is made by <chuds>. I guarantee you that if Wayland was chuddy it would be the exact opposite. Tell me I'm wrong.
 
Ferryman said:
People, especially here, dickride XLibre because they see Wayland et al. as "the enemy" made by <trannies>, while XLibre is made by <chuds>. I guarantee you that if Wayland was chuddy it would be the exact opposite. Tell me I'm wrong
Click to expand...

Hyprland and Sway are made by chudjaks, but they’re both grossly inferior to X11 and Openbox. Canonical’s Mir, with hindsight, is a “Wayland done right” but that’s because Mir had more baked into it than Wayland does, Mir petered out because X11 was ultimately superior anyway, and the soydevs were REEing about Wayland fracturing.

If the Wayland protocol is fundamentally rewritten where the compositor and all expected functionality is standardised, I would not be anywhere near as venomous to it than I am now.
 
The amount of cope that Wayland-tards come up to justify not adding things that are nessecary for any civilized usage of desktop such as ability to capture input sent to another window is astounding. You realize that by cargo-culting security by not implementing such features the only thing that they are doing is making other people implement it for them? Except with 10x the amount of time wasted. The purpose of security design is not achieving perfect security as perfectly secure program is one that doesn't run and as such is useless, it is achieving as good of security possible while still achieving goals - that is being a proper replacement for X. If Wayland(the project) took security seriously they would have came up with some standard from the get go that would include a permission system or something of that nature.
 
Ferryman said:
The point of Wayland is that it is a minimal protocol which handles composition and output, unlike X11 which is a lot more monolithic (and still no application isolation "by design" kek). It is a nice simple protocol that is dead easy to implement. The less the display server does, the better.
Click to expand...
X11 does have xnamespaces in Xlibre, and could've had it years ago in Xorg if the developers hadn't effectively abandoned it because they would rather work on the shiny. In fact xnamespaces is problably MORE secure then Wayland as wayland's spec is so restrictive that some compositors bascially bypass the security entirely for some tasks, while Xnamespaces can be deployed in different levels - such as having each workspace it's own xnamespace like in Sonic. And for wayland it is more "bare bones" then "simple". The specification has so many restrictions that doing anything that isn't part of the Gospel requires you to bascially hack the specification to work, or ignore it entirely in your specific compositor. Real life isn't simple, the majority of users will have this one odd edge case that was not in the scope for wayland and is impossible to pull off. It's liek the difference between going to a mechanic that only has a toolbox he can lift with one arm and a mechanic where he has an entire shop of tools for every task. Sure he may only use the deep bearing puller once every few years but it saves a month of work whenever he actually does need it
Ferryman said:
"Standards" in this case are a good way to say "nigger jail" because choice matters more than having a "right" way to do things. Arguing for there being a "standard" is like arguing in favor of systemd. Why aren't you using it? Its the "standard" way to do things, after all. I like Wayland for the same reason I hate what its devs and FreeDesktop/RedHat tried to do, and that is because the liberty of choice is the #1 most important facet of Free Software. Trying to sunset X is demonic, but that does not mean Wayland should be left to the dust. Being a cultist for either X11 or Wayland is retarded because it puts you on the same kind of divided island as the blue jew vs red jew of partisan politics, it leaves everyone worse off. Linux should not have "a" display server, it should have plural that users are able to choose from. Even the X11 vs Wayland duopoly is gay, maybe some upstart like Arcan can become usable enough for there to at least be a third option. I would rather have the choice to pick between 5 different compositors that can work if you tweak them enough over one that "just works". If I had my way and I could will it, I'd make Wayland alone do even less.
Click to expand...
Standards are like languages. Imagine if you're trying to fix a problem but tech support speaks Hindi or you're trying to buy a house but the salesperson only speaks Chinese. Things immediate get a lot more complicated when there are no standards for common processes. here's a chart for what compositors support which protocols and you can see it adds a dizzying level of complexity, while for X11 everyone just uses Xord, with Xlibre maintaining compatibility while adding new features

Ferryman said:
People, especially here, dickride XLibre because they see Wayland et al. as "the enemy" made by <trannies>, while XLibre is made by <chuds>. I guarantee you that if Wayland was chuddy it would be the exact opposite. Tell me I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
If Wayland was "chuddy" then it would be a completely different Wayland and would actually resolve the issues people have with Wayland. But now it's designed by the people who make Gnome, who thinks that anyone who does anything different from them - such as make their rightmost monitor their primary monitor - is literally hitler and should never be given any support or consideration.
 
All I know is I can't get fucking Window shading in KDE Wayland and the bugs been open for like 4 years and they claim it's impossible. Please, just let me use the computer how I've been using it for 30 years.
 
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