The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

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Are we at a point where "non-programmers" are illiterate now?
Yes, we are at this point, we've been at it for several years.
As a "non-programmer", I'd be pretty annoyed if some faggot was talking down to me like that. If anything, using GitHub for bug reporting is more convenient, because you don't have to fuck around with 5123012 custom bug trackers.
Non-programmers (in this anecdotal case being subhuman twitter users) are literally, always constantly complaining that "GITHUB SUCKS, WHERE'S THE FARKING DOWNLOAD BUTTON I JUST WANT TO DOWNLOAD THE 'APP'?" to the tune of several thousands of likes every other month. They are not being talked down to, they are being talked to precisely at their level (or above it, really). Zoomers are not capable of navigating any site with a design paradigm older than 2014. This is not hyperbole, its not hate bandwagoning, they are genuinely not capable of doing it as a collective.
What average users expect is an immediate shiny red download button that gives you a nice binary executable with an install wizard that does everything for you. Anything else is sacrosanct.
 
It's literally just "I grew up with X, why is Y so awkward?".
I used Photoshop growing up as a kid so much, I can't get into GIMP. And you were probably the opposite.
I tired using Photoshop at school and found it confusing, then soon saw on the computer there was Coreldraw and instantly knew what I wanted to do, now I'm using GIMP because it can run both on linux and windows, Krita is a decent backup.
 
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I don't need 'drop in replacements', I've taught myself several packages over the years.

I just need Darktable to not suck, and it does. Actually one of my bigger complaints about it is that it needlessly apes Lightroom's editing paradigms. And that its primary competitors are either dead or barely-maintained.
 
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Fuckin' FINALLY.
 
Krita keeps gaining more ground, and it's a fairly usable and competent replacement, while GIMP is still pants-on-head retarded to use.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=k28m0DFhWUc
https://youtube.com/watch?v=T8i94iQxyNw
I use Krita both on Linux and Windows. I used to have a cracked copy of Photoshop CS6 but since Adobe shut down the servers I couldn't crack it on a fresh install of Windows anymore.
Krita is pretty good, the shortcuts are similar to Photoshop so it's easier to adapt. I've tried GIMP several times but the interface is as user-friendly as Blender...

It's dumb how Adobe doesn't port any of their software to Linux.
The CEO said several times that he doesn't want his products to be available on Linux because - according to him - Linux users are pirates who refuse to pay for a product.
 
I'm sorry, I just despise both windows and even linux users glazing over Davinci as like the only video editing software people only use.
I tried davinci because some proprietary software shilling faggot in this tread was talking about it like it was the only video editor that's even usable on linux.

my experience with it? it wouldn't even run. It would open... for like 4 or 5 seconds. Then it would crash. I didn't find any useful information about why it was crashing. It just did. I never got to try editing with it because it didn't fucking work on my system at all.

meanwhile, kdenlive didn't do that. And also it's more than I need, and if someone is doing the kind of simple editing I do. I can pretty much guarantee kdenlive is overkill. It doesn more than enough to get them through whatever they are doing.
My friend asked me how to download code from GitHub because there was no release page to download binaries from.

FYI, the code download button is a massive, overly green button that you cannot miss. He’s also not massively retarded.
Non-programmers (in this anecdotal case being subhuman twitter users) are literally, always constantly complaining that "GITHUB SUCKS, WHERE'S THE FARKING DOWNLOAD BUTTON I JUST WANT TO DOWNLOAD THE 'APP'?" to the tune of several thousands of likes every other month. They are not being talked down to, they are being talked to precisely at their level (or above it, really). Zoomers are not capable of navigating any site with a design paradigm older than 2014. This is not hyperbole, its not hate bandwagoning, they are genuinely not capable of doing it as a collective.
What average users expect is an immediate shiny red download button that gives you a nice binary executable with an install wizard that does everything for you. Anything else is sacrosanc
The thing both of these are missing, is reporting issues on github is not the same thing as having a normy git clone a repo, and build it.

1767638564301.png

When you report an issue on github, there is in fact a botton that just says "issues", and it's right at the top of the page where it's easy to find. You can see how it works by clicking around on it and seeing what other people have done etc. You don't need to have any knowledge of git's existence even. You can be someone that only uses software installed through a gui flatpak installer and figure out after making it to a projects github page where to go to report an issues, and still work out you click the issues button to say you have an issue.

So I do think they were right when he said that video was condescending. And people not understand you need to git clone the repo's link, or download a release tarball, isn't unexpected for normies, but it's a completely different situation compared to reporting problems.

After thinking about it I actually think it's a good idea for github to not make it any easier than it already is to download and use things from it. It is already simple and easy for people that should be using github, I think having something that stops complete retards from wasting their time, and not moving to some other method of installing a program, or moving to a completely different program that doesn't require them to clone, build, and install the program from source is the better option for them. It's not made as a platform for normies to install software from. It's a source hosting site, and if someone knows what that means, they can easily use it for installing software.
 
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my experience with it? it wouldn't even run. It would open... for like 4 or 5 seconds. Then it would crash.
I had the same fucking experience, and I run Ubuntu. Everything should fucking run under Ubuntu. Everything is fucking made for Ubuntu. It didn't work. Absolute ass of a program.
 
It's more like the SysV/ascii logfiles of graphical rendering. Wayland is the systemd.

I can't believe I just worked this metaphor.
By Wayland do you mean mutter or Kwin or sway or muffin or something else?
 
By Wayland do you mean mutter or Kwin or sway or muffin or something else?
That's all too high level. We're talking Xwindows vs. the new Wayland as the actual display manager, what sits between the drivers and the window manager.

Back in the day X was a unified protocol for graphical terminals, which were woefully fragmented and incompatible, as well as the API to draw stuff. Wayland is the 'ewww that's like network-oriented and goofy and broken and we can rewrite it' modern graphics system that has been worked on forever and is now only vaguely arguably getting towards feature completeness. Except not.
 
Back in the day X was a unified protocol for graphical terminals, which were woefully fragmented and incompatible, as well as the API to draw stuff. Wayland is the 'ewww that's like network-oriented and goofy and broken and we can rewrite it' modern graphics system that has been worked on forever and is now only vaguely arguably getting towards feature completeness. Except not.
Well, now we get pheonix. That basically has the same outlook. That xorg does things in a way that doesn't make sense from the perspective of people that just want to show a graphical desktop on a local machine. Have no intetest in things like telnet, and any of the drivers I probably don't even know about. And want a more secure by default model.

Although, it seems like people don't give it the same ammount of shit because it's so new at this point it's not even usable, and they say it's xorg, but starting over from scratch in a new language. But looking at what they want to do. It's almost all the same things wayland does. But they just want to use a slightly different model.
 
Is Xorg like the systemd for graphical rendering?
Big, bloated, tries to do things that are rightfully the kernel’s prerogative*, sounds pretty similar.

*Before the kernel got DRI, X used to manage access to GPUs. The development of DRI was one of the big reasons wayland was started, because for the first time in a long time, X was not an essential part of the graphics stack.
That's all too high level. We're talking Xwindows vs. the new Wayland as the actual display manager, what sits between the drivers and the window manager.

Back in the day X was a unified protocol for graphical terminals, which were woefully fragmented and incompatible, as well as the API to draw stuff. Wayland is the 'ewww that's like network-oriented and goofy and broken and we can rewrite it' modern graphics system that has been worked on forever and is now only vaguely arguably getting towards feature completeness. Except not.
Wayland is not a program, wayland is a protocol. The entire model of wayland is based around combining what under X were the display server, window manager, and compisitor into a single program to reduce complexity. This means there is and can be no one wayland implimentation, instead every wayland compositor impliments a full display stack, on top of the kernel’s DRI interface.
Many of these implimentations are hot garbage, and the protocol itself has a few shortcomings and poor design decisions that contribute to the aforementioned hot garbage, but conflating the two, and especially assuming that wayland follows X’s model for the graphics stack, is extremely dumb.
 
I just need Darktable to not suck, and it does.
Honestly I never got used to darktable, then again I never learned (or ever used) adobe products/Photoshop or other related editor programs. So I dont really know the workflow differences or simmilarities between the two. I'm sure you have, but give rawtherapee a shot.
Then again, I am a masochist that uses rawtherapee + gimp to edit a photo. So my opinion is that of a madman.
 
but conflating the two, and especially assuming that wayland follows X’s model for the graphics stack, is extremely dumb.
I wouldn't say extremely dumb. It's a pretty common misconception. It's more common than people actually understanding the fundamental differences in what wayland and xorg are.

It is a bit annoying, seeing the shit people say because of that though. Because some things people assume because of it are actually retarded. But the misunderstanding itself I think is pretty natural, unless someone has really looked into how they are actually different.
 
Honestly I never got used to darktable, then again I never learned (or ever used) adobe products/Photoshop or other related editor programs. So I dont really know the workflow differences or simmilarities between the two. I'm sure you have, but give rawtherapee a shot.
Then again, I am a masochist that uses rawtherapee + gimp to edit a photo. So my opinion is that of a madman.
I like Rawtherapee a lot better but it's a lot less well maintained. When I got a Z9 it wasn't supported for a loooong time. Darktable support in itself took a while, but the wait was less interminable.

I really hate the 'collection' based paradigm that Lightroom started and Darktable uses. I liked the Bibble way: Go into a directory, it reads the settings sidecar files and everything's great, even cross-platform. Collections are silly. I process a batch and then generally I'm done with it for a while or maybe ever. Why do I want to store it in a database collection or keep it in mind at all?

Darktable ups the ante with the plugins being pretty obtuse. I'd like to trim up the black level and change the exposure? Exposure kind of does that but kind of not and tells you you're a bad person for increasing shadow density with black level without telling you how might be better. Or how it'll throw a red warning on your white balance because 'another plugin is doing white balance' and then it's up to you to figure out which of the five vaguely color-related modules turned on are doing it.

RT also seems to have a less-great GPU acceleration system but then again Darktable's also sucks so not a huge loss.

(Oh, this is also the BIGGEST reason I despise Wayland! Until recently it had no good concept of color management to a target at all. You could load a correction for a monitor but there was no protocol to say 'render this point in the colorspace' rather than a direct RGB value. And the reply was 'why do you need that?', as usual. It exists now but I'm not sure any software supports it yet.)
 
Question, hypothetically if you are a DE developer making a Wayland compositor for your DE, how difficult is it to make a X compositor along the lines of Phoenix's design for your DE?
 
I tried davinci because some proprietary software shilling faggot in this tread was talking about it like it was the only video editor that's even usable on linux.

my experience with it? it wouldn't even run. It would open... for like 4 or 5 seconds. Then it would crash. I didn't find any useful information about why it was crashing. It just did. I never got to try editing with it because it didn't fucking work on my system at all.

meanwhile, kdenlive didn't do that. And also it's more than I need, and if someone is doing the kind of simple editing I do. I can pretty much guarantee kdenlive is overkill. It doesn more than enough to get them through whatever they are doing.
I once watched a video by Atomic Shrimp on getting Davinci Resolve working in Linux. Basically, it was the one important software he used that was keeping him from fully switching from Windows to Linux, but the Linux port of Davinci and its installer is a buggy piece of shit that often fails to install or work right. Eventually he found someone else had made a script for Linux Mint that babysits the installer and makes sure it's working properly, and was finally able to get the program working on Linux that way.

 
It's just easier to say "Until NVIDIA goes full FOSS driver+Mesa stack the way AMD and Intel did, the NVIDIA drivers are basically in a state of limbo.
Except it seems NVIDIA doesn't want that to happen.

I've been told that if NVIDIA goes full FOSS, AMD and Intel could get a better understanding of how their high end GPUs work and then NVIDIA would have actual competition. NVIDIA can't have that.
 
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