The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

["Controlled Demolition"]

Forget the year of Linux on Desktop, when's the year that SystemD (and Ubuntu) burns to the ground?

 

[Betonhaus]

Forget the year of Linux on Desktop, when's the year that SystemD (and Ubuntu) burns to the ground?

Probably once the Troon wars end.

 

[Pluciferous]

Can this massive niggerfaggot shut the fuck up? Yes, I want to support 20 year old systems, dickhead, that’s the beauty of Linux.
View attachment 8758839

You might want support for your 20-year-old systems, but consider that perhaps the maintainers don’t want to spend a ton of time supporting them when they know that 99% of Linux installs happen on VMs or recent hardware.

That’s the beauty of open source — you can support your systems yourself, instead of ungratefully demanding a ton of free labor.

 

[i440BX]

I think mostly it's used to vendor-lock laptops (by OEMs and by IT departments for business machines).

In 95% of cases yes. I can understand requiring it for goverment\glowie\sensitive corporate applications, but outside of that it is pretty much used for enforcing DRM\Anti consumer practices.

You might want support for your 20-year-old systems, but consider that perhaps the maintainers don’t want to spend a ton of time supporting them when they know that 99% of Linux installs happen on VMs or recent hardware.

That’s the beauty of open source — you can support your systems yourself, instead of ungratefully demanding a ton of free labor.

There is a significant community of Linux users that use coreboot patched laptops and those laptops are from 2006-2009, most of them being IBM-early lenovo thinkpads that use Intel core duo cpus. Those laptops don't have EFI support.



Sure, I understand not being able to support IA-32 platforms. But ditching CSM support, which still exists on my 2017 laptop, is fucking insane. I understand that EFI has 2 advantages, letting you run more than 4 primary partitions, larger than 2 terrabyte.

But EFI is in general fucking retarded. Who came up with this genius idea of requiring you have a separate efi partition? And the MBR limitations can be mitigated anyway with custom bootloaders. Even in 1998 there were people able to boot linux os2 dos and windows 95 with no problems, with multiple hdds and more than 4 partitions, using solutions like System Commander.

To also add, I fucking hate systemdboot, if you run a rolling release kernel, that partition will get filled quickly, since it copies every module needed for booting the kernel in that fucking partition. And the previous images\fallback images will not get deleted automatically.

 

[analrapist]

if you run a rolling release kernel, that partition will get filled quickly, since it copies every module needed for booting the kernel in that fucking partition

You can alleviate this by switching to an initrd-free kernel using eg. Gentoo's kernel/config.d. https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Distribution_Kernel#Using_.2Fetc.2Fkernel.2Fconfig.d

You just pop config fragments into /etc/kernel/config.d and they automatically get picked up on new kernel releases. I wrote this for 6.6 and it's worked without modification to 6.18.

# CONFIG_BLK_DEV_INITRD is not set
# CONFIG_BOOT_CONFIG is not set
CONFIG_LZ4_DECOMPRESS=m
# CONFIG_BOOTTIME_TRACING is not set

You'll need another config fragment to include the stuff that needs to be there for your kernel to find your sysroot. In my case, it's the NVME core.

CONFIG_NVME_COMMON=y
CONFIG_NVME_CORE=y
CONFIG_BLK_DEV_NVME=y

My current kernels run at about 12MB.

Unfortunately, binary-distro cucks don't get this magic. But this nearly halved my boot time. Again, not a big deal, a handful of seconds at boot time. But it's shocking how much faster it feels.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

To also add, I fucking hate systemdboot, if you run a rolling release kernel, that partition will get filled quickly, since it copies every module needed for booting the kernel in that fucking partition. And the previous images\fallback images will not get deleted automatically.

Yeah this is why when I accidentally deleted my home folder and reinstalled everything from scratch I just used GRUB instead. It works, updates work, no headaches after booting to make sure the right entry was selected.

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

I efistub on Artix (Arch) now because they made it such a fucking hassle to secure boot with GRUB now, so now I just sign vmlinuz-linux-lts and not bother with anything else. You're supposed to configure which modules to load and which ones to leave out, but the methods outlined on the Arch Wiki just seem to fly over my head.

 

[acid_ra1n]

You might want support for your 20-year-old systems, but consider that perhaps the maintainers don’t want to spend a ton of time supporting them when they know that 99% of Linux installs happen on VMs or recent hardware.

That’s the beauty of open source — you can support your systems yourself, instead of ungratefully demanding a ton of free labor.

Now that I mostly work with legacy hardware I'm realizing not only how much jank the Linux desktop is but also how many regressions have happened that have killed functionality in older devices
But basically that one line "do you want to support 20 year old systems" is what pisses me off so much because yeah that affects me, like a lot

 

[Betonhaus]

You might want support for your 20-year-old systems, but consider that perhaps the maintainers don’t want to spend a ton of time supporting them when they know that 99% of Linux installs happen on VMs or recent hardware.

That’s the beauty of open source — you can support your systems yourself, instead of ungratefully demanding a ton of free labor.

Except Ubuntu is often used as a server OS, and there are a lot of old hardware that is still perfectly useable for server stuff.

If they want to completely abandon the server market and let Debian take over that's fine with me, but a lot of people would want to make servers that they expect to run for years and years and would be hesitant to use an OS that will arbitrarily abandon their setup.

I used to have a Think server TS430 that still worked great, but it had UEFI32 and was cursed to work with if you weren't using BIOS boot

 

[Legalize Asbestos]

>rust rewrite of GRUB
Everything must be RUST, Anything lower level than java is chud coded and scary.

It suddenly occurs to me that rust progressively and totally taking over what it touches until it's completely destroyed is precisely what rust does.



Guess I had that 'semantic satiation' where I see Rust bitched about so often I forgot it refers to an actual phenomenon.

 

[Sneed Chuckson]

This thread has been sneeding about this shit for a week straight

On one hand you're correct that the userdb change is pretty much harmless, the issue is that it demonstrates a willingness to comply with laws such as California's age verification laws. Once you have demonstrated compliance the vampire is in the house, the door is open for whatever the next state tyranny project is. It is a bad sign for the future of a project that complies instead of standing its ground.

“CachyOS is not located in areas where this is a thing

CachyOS is not doing anything in regards to this

CachyOS uses SystemD

If you don’t want to use SystemD find another distribution

STOP asking about these two things

STOP attacking people about these two things
STOP being radical about these two things”

This is a pretty reasonable stance considering that cachyOS is just a tweaked arch intended to gain minor performance for gaming. Removing systemd from arch is way, way, WAY beyond the scope of their project. The maintainers have probably answered this question a trillion times and it is completely outside of their ability to do anything about it.

 

[the rat]

I efistub on Artix (Arch) now because they made it such a fucking hassle to secure boot with GRUB now, so now I just sign vmlinuz-linux-lts and not bother with anything else. You're supposed to configure which modules to load and which ones to leave out, but the methods outlined on the Arch Wiki just seem to fly over my head.

You actually have secure boot enabled? I have always turned that shit off if it was enabled on all of my computers and I don't think I've ever had any issues with say software not running because of it.

"do you want to support 20 year old systems"

Core 2 Quad supremacy.

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

You actually have secure boot enabled? I have always turned that shit off if it was enabled on all of my computers and I don't think I've ever had any issues with say software not running because of it.

For whatever reason AppArmor just doesn't load without secure boot, otherwise I'd just ditch the shit.

I found out that "aa-enabled" doesn't output "yes" whenever secure boot is off, but does when it's on.

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

I was thinking about the age verification thing. I think the actual best bet for this, is going to be if a state takes some kind of action against an operating system that refuses to do it.

Then if the OS gets a lawyer that is willing to fight it on constitutional grounds (i imagine that wouldn't be hard to find), and they manage to take it up to a higher court.

At least I think that would be the best road to getting rid of these. From what i recall the texas version was shot down for constitutional reasons, but i would need to check the details.

For whatever reason AppArmor just doesn't load without secure boot, otherwise I'd just ditch the shit.

I found out that "aa-enabled" doesn't output "yes" whenever secure boot is off, but does when it's on.

I've uses apparmor in the past. It never forced me to use secure boot. There is something going on with your confirgurarion causing that. I would look around at what you have. Maybe the kernel command line flags. Or other options.

 

[Hakase Shinonome]

“CachyOS is not located in areas where this is a thing

CachyOS is not doing anything in regards to this

CachyOS uses SystemD

If you don’t want to use SystemD find another distribution

STOP asking about these two things

STOP attacking people about these two things

STOP being radical about these two things”

Could've said:

I know your concerns about systemd and its age verification. I have the same concerns, but as we are an Arch-based distro, there isn't much we can do. I hope systemd developers could not go through with it, but we can only hope.

But instead said:

Fuck you, eat my ass, stop annoying me, this is the inevitable future.

 

[Sneed Chuckson]

Could've said:
I know your concerns about systemd and its age verification. I have the same concerns, but as we are an Arch-based distro, there isn't much we can do. I hope systemd developers could not go through with it, but we can only hope.

To be fair to them, they did direct people to the Garuda Linux post on the matter which basically says this.

 

[jeanblunt]

View attachment 8758807
"Are you ready for ze New Systemd Order?"

"HAIL POETTRING! HAIL POETTRING! HAIL POETTRING!"

 

[analrapist]

I was thinking about the age verification thing. I think the actual best bet for this, is going to be if a state takes some kind of action against an operating system that refuses to do it.

Then if the OS gets a lawyer that is willing to fight it on constitutional grounds (i imagine that wouldn't be hard to find), and they manage to take it up to a higher court.

At least I think that would be the best road to getting rid of these. From what i recall the texas version was shot down for constitutional reasons, but i would need to check the details.

This is basically what Ageless Linux is trying to do. https://agelesslinux.org/index.html

We invite the California Attorney General to fine us $7,500 for handing a Raspberry Pi to a child.

We will pay the fine. We will frame the receipt. We will put it on this website. We will use it to explain, to everyone who will listen, that the State of California has levied a $7,500 penalty against a person who gave a child a $5 computer with a snake game on it, because the snake game did not first ask the child how old they were.

That is the press release we want to write. We believe the Attorney General does not want us to write it. And that is the entire point.

 

[Betonhaus]

How big of a team is needed to fork SystemD, or at least the essentials? Could CachyOS and Linux Mint and a couple others get together to maintain a fork?

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

It would be the funniest thing ever if distros moved over to Dinit which has near-identical way of doing things, minus scope creep. Or they copy MX Linux.