The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

  • 🇵🇦 Nuestro primer dominio localizado está en español en kiwifarms.pa. Our first localized domain is on Spanish on kiwifarms.pa.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
SchizoDaemon said:
And why are they doing that?

There were extensive regressions in the codebase caused by the guy who started XLibre. So they rolled back to a well-known good point and started cherry-picking stuff back in that didn't cause those regressions.
I just reminded myself of some of the issues. One of them was Xorg couldn't be built on BSD or Solaris. Another major bug I was experiencing myself. was the desktop geometry not updating when another monitor was plugged in.
Click to expand...
Huh, it's almost like bugs happen and that is what testing is for. I don't recall any of these regressions being on Xlibre. You'd think if these "regressions" were on purpose that they'd be present in the project such commits still exist on. You're being a retarded tranny nigger.
 
I like how "protest distro" is used as an argument against breaking away from retardation. Artix has been a consistent blast and I'm trying Dinit out this time, quite impressed with its performance.
 
SchizoDaemon said:
No, you are the dumb tranny nigger. First-party support is for all niche operating systems. Third-party support is just a repo somewhere.
Click to expand...

Dude, I actually like you and enjoy your posts. Even so... homeboy, take the L and admit you were being unnecessarily hostile.

** ON XLIBRE'S [LACK OF] BROAD FIRST-PARTY SUPPORT **

We're in lockstep here, but only up to a certain point. I personally loathe the present state of XLibre packaging, with most third-party repos being total dogshit ass (re: however many times the Ubuntu/Debian repo changed before seemingly settling down). Where I'd push back is how projects like Debian, Linux Mint, and openSUSE are taking a wait and see approach.

** ON XLIBRE vs. XORG SPECIFICALLY **

metux is a strange person, I know he's got a ton of baggage, and the split between metux and the Xorg team definitely wasn't one-sided in either direction. It was mutually acrimonious, and metux definitely did tons of shit he probably shouldn't have. REGARDLESS of the mutual acrimony between Xorg and metux, not to mention metux's own indiscretions, I still firmly maintain XLibre has inherent value that Xorg presently lacks. Ironically, it would appear that XLibre is to Xorg as Xorg was to XFree86 at this point in time. The catalyst is different, the ecosystem is different, the technology's advanced by leaps and bounds over the last 20 years, but the parallel still exists.

We can definitely go full-on tinfoil hat alien space bats conspiracy theory here... or we can acknowledge that metux brought to light all the chicanery happening behind the scenes. We never once got Xorg 7.8 despite it being teased in June 2012 and expected for some time 2013. Unfortunately, 2013 came and went with no wholly engineered and unified Xorg release. Instead, the Xorg team pivoted to a modular development cycle and from 2014 through 2024, Xorg basically went all but radio silent in terms of commit activity. It wasn't until metux showed up in late 2024-early 2025 when commit activity literally spiked upward for the first time in well over a decade. It's like 10 years after the Xorg Foundation developed the mindshare and the lion's share of ecosystem distribution, the team just threw their hands up and said "nah man, it's too much."

The transition from wholly engineered releases to modular component releases and the near-flatlining of development activity on Xorg coincided rather perfectly with Wayland being touted as a Xorg replacement. The most visible Xorg developers before metux, including ones who've made keynote speeches, have basically said the same thing ad nauseam: X11 was seemingly impossible to maintain, it was falling apart at the seams, and Wayland was basically a clean break instead of consolidating 40 years worth of technical debt. Xorg developers have pivoted largely into building up Wayland, but let's not forget that Wayland is a technology largely spearheaded by Red Hat. It would be in Red Hat's best interests to ensure that the Xorg developers spend most of their time and energy on Wayland, only giving Xorg cursory security patches until such a time when Wayland is deemed "feature complete."

metux didn't "discover," let alone "reveal," anything that wasn't already publicly accessible information. What he effectively did was highlight, to a broadly disenchanted Linux user base, that Red Hat was actively leveraging the Xorg team's own unwillingness to maintain Xorg in a bid to push Wayland despite its irreconcilable design flaws. It's not like the acrimony against Wayland emerged as some terminally online kneejerk reaction to change. There's like a decade of NOTABUG and WONTFIX bullshit that happened, tons of users who got told by developers at all levels of the ecosystem that their use case was invalid, and that meaningful functionality gaps won't ever get addressed because Wayland points fingers at the compositors, the compositors point fingers at app developers, and app developers point fingers simultaneously at Wayland, the compositors, and the end user.

Did Wayland succeed at making a clean break from Xorg? I would argue it never has and never will considering how pure Wayland sessions without XWayland as a fallback still has meaningful feature and functionality gaps. But for argument's sake, let's say that it 100% broke free from Xorg. That still doesn't change the fact that Wayland's own implementation and adoption was fraught from the beginning, and that developers at all levels flipping off end users and telling them to sit and spin left a bad taste in a ton of people's mouths. Irrespective of Wayland's own meaningful technical accomplishments (re: all the cool stuff that Hyprland can do), that piss-poor "my way and nothing else because we're repaving the highway too" approach to Wayland adoption was its original sin.
 
I'm going to be honest guys, what exactly do you DO that makes you pick a fringe distro over Ubuntu, Debian or Arch? I'm 2 weeks into my Debian install with update notifications off and... it's perfect. I don't get it, like what EXACTLY are you doing that makes a fringe OS more worthwhile?

Because the majority of people here are using web browsers, playing steam games and watching shit on Netflix etc. Something that can easily be achieved with a basic popular Linux distro.

Is it a power consumption thing? Do you have specific hardware that doesn't play nice with Debian etc? Are you using specialist software that doesn't play nice with the major distros? All I'm seeing is fragmentation for the sake of fragmentation that will result in linux development getting more hamstrung in trying to account for every fucking distro known to man.
 
Tom Nook's Gloryhole said:
I'm going to be honest guys, what exactly do you DO that makes you pick a fringe distro over Ubuntu, Debian or Arch? I'm 2 weeks into my Debian install with update notifications off and... it's perfect. I don't get it, like what EXACTLY are you doing that makes a fringe OS more worthwhile?

Because the majority of people here are using web browsers, playing steam games and watching shit on Netflix etc. Something that can easily be achieved with a basic popular Linux distro.

Is it a power consumption thing? Do you have specific hardware that doesn't play nice with Debian etc? Are you using specialist software that doesn't play nice with the major distros? All I'm seeing is fragmentation for the sake of fragmentation that will result in linux development getting more hamstrung in trying to account for every fucking distro known to man.
Click to expand...
It's just autism.
 
Tom Nook's Gloryhole said:
I'm going to be honest guys, what exactly do you DO that makes you pick a fringe distro over Ubuntu, Debian or Arch? I'm 2 weeks into my Debian install with update notifications off and... it's perfect. I don't get it, like what EXACTLY are you doing that makes a fringe OS more worthwhile?

Because the majority of people here are using web browsers, playing steam games and watching shit on Netflix etc. Something that can easily be achieved with a basic popular Linux distro.

Is it a power consumption thing? Do you have specific hardware that doesn't play nice with Debian etc? Are you using specialist software that doesn't play nice with the major distros? All I'm seeing is fragmentation for the sake of fragmentation that will result in linux development getting more hamstrung in trying to account for every fucking distro known to man.
Click to expand...
I've been using Linux personally and professionally for decades now, so the cost of switching to something "niche" that aligns with more esoteric values like code quality, design quality, licensing, and at minimum, not staffed/maintained by people who think kids should be given hormone blockers - these become pretty easy to implement.
 
Tom Nook's Gloryhole said:
I'm going to be honest guys, what exactly do you DO that makes you pick a fringe distro over Ubuntu, Debian or Arch?
Click to expand...
Gentoo is scarcely "fringe", considering it's the basis for Chrome OS, but I run a lot of software where I'm building from source anyhow, and I like to customize my kernels like taking initramfs out (which halves my boot time), and nothing (except maybe Nix/Guix, but I haven't made it there yet) makes this work as straightforward as Gentoo.

The most surprising part of all of this is that Gentoo, after configuration, is less fragile than I found Arch or Debian. Note that unless you're a programmer or working with a lot of DIY build stuff, you almost certainly don't need Gentoo and are probably served by something more user friendly. But if you're a power user, I really recommend you give Gentoo a consideration. It has come a long way since I tried it first in '06.

And if you're running a server? There's no distro out there that will let you lower your attack surface by disabling features like Gentoo's USE flags permit.
 
Dread First said:
Dude, I actually like you and enjoy your posts. Even so... homeboy, take the L and admit you were being unnecessarily hostile.
Click to expand...
This post is going to be the last thing I say on this.

Claiming that the Linux distros and BSD forks that adopted XLibre are niche isn't a statement on whether they are any good or not.
It is simply a statement that many of these OSes have maybe a few hundred to a few thousand users.
I am a big believer in people using whatever they want; that includes things I wouldn't recommend.

As for the rest of the conversation, the responses I got were often deliberate mischaracterisations of either what I had said or what the Xorg devs had said, and the same users have done so before.

I've seen videos from Sam Bent, Mental Outlaw and some other Linux YouTubers on this subject where they have made similar arguments to what's been parroted on here.
Often these guys are simply incorrect and have misled themselves and their audiences. This is because these guys are anarchists/agorists (Sam Bent and Mental Outlaw make no secret of this) and are looking for an ulterior motive, and I just don't see it.
This is why I often ignore most of Linux YouTube, Hacker News, Reddit, OSNews and the like because there are far too many ideologues on there.
Fraygorryt The Wise said:
You'd think if these "regressions" were on purpose that they'd be present in the project such commits still exist on.
Click to expand...
Nobody claimed they were on purpose. I linked the diff between the two branches; you can see them reverting commits that broke things and the commit messages why.
Fraygorryt The Wise said:
You're being a retarded tranny nigger.
Click to expand...
No. I have shown the relevant evidence.
Sneed Chuckson said:
Usecase for strong opinions? I wouldn't have strong opinions on my desktop either if I were a GNOME user, as GNOME wouldn't let me change them anyway.
Click to expand...
Gnome can be pretty nice if you use the Dash to Dock extension and App Indicator Icons and fix the dumb stuff via some gsettings/gnome tweaks.

It is a pity the developers are so abrasive.
 
Last edited:
SchizoDaemon said:
Gnome can be pretty nice if you use the Dash to Dock extension and App Indicator Icons and fix the dumb stuff via some gsettings/gnome tweaks.
Click to expand...

Hakase Shinonome said:
The fact that those things aren't default is indicative of Gnome Project's retardation.
Click to expand...

Telling people to install multiple extensions just to make their desktop environment usable is pure copium.

Gnome 2.x was great - does anyone know what made the gnome foundation go full retard with the complete redesign?
 
SchizoDaemon said:
Gnome can be pretty nice if you use the Dash to Dock extension, app indicator icons and fix the dumb stuff via some gsettings.
Click to expand...

I was actually quite fond of GNOME Shell... for a few months at a time between 2011 and 2014. The problem is that GNOME Shell is completely unrecognisable now because shit changes so fucking fast on the most arbitrary of whims. The ergonomics of earlier GNOME Shell releases, while awful in many ways, are actually better than the hyper-minimalist kick the GNOME developers went on since like... 2020ish?

Another problem is that the GNOME team has a horrific track record with long-term ecosystem consistency in the GNOME Shell era. Mint GNOME Shell Extensions were actually pretty damn ace, but they weren't feasible to maintain long-term because the GNOME team just arbitrarily decides to break things and let the third-party ecosystem deal with it.

The original GNOME Fallback session that shipped with CentOS 7 and CentOS 8 were legitimately fantastic stuff... but unless I'm horribly mistaken, GNOME Fallback no longer exists. I would've never attempted fiddling with Dash2Panel if the GNOME team, in their infinite "wisdom," decided to nix a genuinely useful alternative to GNOME Shell. I didn't need GNOME Tweak Tool to give me back my minimise and maximise buttons on the Fallback session. I was able to do much more and have a great time doing it in the fucking fallback session. Why they nixed it is beyond me.

If they limited their shenanigans to GNOME itself, I wouldn't mind... except the GNOME team basically all but flat-out said GTK4 is gonna be meant for GNOME specifically so they can't make promises that the broader ecosystem can handle it. What the hell, man?! As if GTK3 and its consequences weren't enough, now we have GTK4 basically being "GNOME-forward and if it works for you, that's as good as it'll get." This is on the heels of GTK2 getting sunsetted too! So like... are we seriously gonna have a massive graphical toolkit being gatekept by an entire desktop environment team on their own whims, with no alternative that doesn't require bootstrapping a fork?

I dunno man. The GNOME team from 2011 through the present day feel like they started LARPing like coked up studio execs in the 80s enabling each other's bad ideas, followed by recrimination behind closed doors once they come down.

[snorts a big line of coke] YEAH... AND GET THIS... WE GET RID OF THE GNOME FALLBACK SESSION.

[snorts a big line of coke] IT'S HIGH TIME THOSE SMUG SONS OF BITCHES FINALLY MANNED THE FUCK UP AND USED GNOME SHELL.

[snorts a big line of coke] Y'KNOW WHAT ELSE WE SHOULD DO? BREAK THE EXTENSION ECOSYSTEM FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME.
 
Dread First said:
because shit changes so fucking fast on the most arbitrary of whims.
Click to expand...
Dread First said:
the GNOME team just arbitrarily decides to break things and let the third-party ecosystem deal with it.
Click to expand...
It's definitely the most annoying part of using Gnome. Extensions just get completely BTFO'd by a single update because they changed gdm3.css to just gdm.css. Why? They felt like it. I had so many extensions installed for Gnome 48 only to get BTFO'd by Gnome 50 because "uhh, nah it just doesn't work". Fuck off.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom