- Joined
- May 18, 2014
Do any Kiwis have experience with the LSAT? I've taken the practice exam twice but I'm still a little nervous. Anyone have any advice for study tips/tricks?
The LSAT
- Thread starter Ruin
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- Joined
- Jan 3, 2014
Well if you took the February sitting, it's a bit late for advice. If I were to advise you, I'd have advised you not to take the February LSAT. You don't get your answers back or anything. February is a bit of an oddball sitting.
Studying... it's all about repetition. My best PT was in the low 170s, wound up taking twice for 162 and 167. I took a Kaplan course, which was shit. I did get to take advantage of their money-back guarantee though. I can't say I liked any particular study books better than any others. It legitimately is all about repetition. I did self-study for my second sitting, which... went kinda meh. I think in retrospect I'd fucked up my first sitting by getting caffeine jitters.
Outcomes... got $$$ to a non-T14 tier-1 despite applying at the very end of the cycle. I was a massive splitter, UGPA around a 3.1. I think if I'd been more aggressive and applied earlier I could have gone to a T14 at sticker. Whether that would've been worthwhile is another question entirely. Finishing out 3L, I really don't give much of a shit anymore.
Studying... it's all about repetition. My best PT was in the low 170s, wound up taking twice for 162 and 167. I took a Kaplan course, which was shit. I did get to take advantage of their money-back guarantee though. I can't say I liked any particular study books better than any others. It legitimately is all about repetition. I did self-study for my second sitting, which... went kinda meh. I think in retrospect I'd fucked up my first sitting by getting caffeine jitters.
Outcomes... got $$$ to a non-T14 tier-1 despite applying at the very end of the cycle. I was a massive splitter, UGPA around a 3.1. I think if I'd been more aggressive and applied earlier I could have gone to a T14 at sticker. Whether that would've been worthwhile is another question entirely. Finishing out 3L, I really don't give much of a shit anymore.
waffle
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2013
How are your grades and do you plan on going to a regional school or a national one? If you're not wanting to get into a top tear school and your grades are decent you honestly don't need to sweat it too much.
Honestly, the biggest test on the lsat is not letting it get your shit flipped out. If you stay calm and just practice until you're good at it you'll be fine.
Honestly, the biggest test on the lsat is not letting it get your shit flipped out. If you stay calm and just practice until you're good at it you'll be fine.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
I'd worry more about what you're going to do later. Particularly, do whatever you can to avoid racking up too much debt. I could have approached it in a much better way myself. I got a 163 which wasn't phenomenal but good enough for one of my main schools and a safety. However, the job market was abysmal when I got out, despite having been reasonable when I went in, and I graduated into a cratered economy.
Despite graduating with honors and an appellate level clerkship, things have not exactly been wine and roses.
I'd hope anyone going in at this point in history would have a better idea what to expect, because the problems endemic in the legal economy are now notorious. But watch out.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
Step 1: Read the archives of Inside the Law School Scam (or, if you're willing to pay $5 on Amazon, read Paul Campos's summary, "Don't Go To Law School (Unless)."
Step 2: Don't go to law school. Be happy.
Seriously. I went to a T6 (read: CCN -- if I'd gone to HYS, I would've said top 3
). And, yes, I have a job. But I could've done a lot of more interesting, more lucrative things with my life. And I'm one of the lucky ones. Don't go. Be happy.
However, if you choose to make the same mistake as me (and apparently the three commenters above), work on your LSAT. Seriously. Everybody but Yale are offering discounts based primarily on LSAT these days. Wherever you end up going, it will be cheaper with a better score.
As for how to work on the LSAT: It's simple, get lots of books and work lots of problems. Especially recommended are the Powerscore logical reasoning and logic games "Bibles" -- don't worry about reading comprehension, it never improves that much.
Bonus tips: Work with a clock to improve your speed on logic games (time is the limiting factor there for most people). And work on translating the logical reasoning passages from English to formal logic (if A, then B, etc.) -- I know that sounds dumb, but it really helped me.
Step 2: Don't go to law school. Be happy.
Seriously. I went to a T6 (read: CCN -- if I'd gone to HYS, I would've said top 3
). And, yes, I have a job. But I could've done a lot of more interesting, more lucrative things with my life. And I'm one of the lucky ones. Don't go. Be happy.However, if you choose to make the same mistake as me (and apparently the three commenters above), work on your LSAT. Seriously. Everybody but Yale are offering discounts based primarily on LSAT these days. Wherever you end up going, it will be cheaper with a better score.
As for how to work on the LSAT: It's simple, get lots of books and work lots of problems. Especially recommended are the Powerscore logical reasoning and logic games "Bibles" -- don't worry about reading comprehension, it never improves that much.
Bonus tips: Work with a clock to improve your speed on logic games (time is the limiting factor there for most people). And work on translating the logical reasoning passages from English to formal logic (if A, then B, etc.) -- I know that sounds dumb, but it really helped me.
G
GS 281
Guest
kiwifarms.net
I hold a PhD, but am interested in the prospect of going to Law School. IP is hot and I think it may be a fun thing to do. Do law schools have GA programs? I don't want to pay for it, but I will do some research for them.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
@yawning sneasel, The short answer is no. There are no GA programs -- law profs don't do real research, so they don't need assistants (some have them anyway, but these positions are unpaid and basically consist of grabbing them coffee and ghost-writing their law review articles).
However, because law school deans (and profs and alumni) collectively masturbate over the US News rankings, which depend heavily on the LSAT scores (and to a lesser extent, undergrad GPA) of the student body, they will discount tuition for LSAT scores above their average and waive it entirely for scores significantly above their average.
Also, while intellectual property disputes are hot, and actual intellectual property is worth more than ever, IP law is *not* a lucrative field right now -- two or three lawyers for every job. And, in general, only around half (52% the last time I looked) of law school grads actually secure long-term employment in law.
(Yes, I know, they say you can do "101 things with a law degree." Well, guess what? 100 of them can be done without wasting three years and going $100k+ in debt to get the JD).
If you're really interested in law, do some research. Visit Law School Transparency to get the stats, visit Above the Law to get a feel for the culture (and juicy gossip). Read Paul Campos's "Don't go to Law School (Unless)" (again, can't emphasize that one enough). But in the name of all that is holy, please do not start considering law school because "it may be a fun thing to do." It isn't. Trust me.
PS. My apologies for posting yet another screed (I know the OP was just asking for LSAT tips), but this thread brought up the following thought on the psychology of the law school decision:
I think a lot of people go into law because we have strong research, writing, and logic skills, but don't really know how to turn these real, but rather nebulously applicable skills into a career. So we do our research. We learn that the practice of law doesn't look anything like TV. But we're willing to trade tedium for stability and a clearly defined career path, which we didn't have before.
And that's the thing. From the bottom, all the way to the very top (I spent a couple years at a Vault 50 firm before the hours finally got to me), law is a field where, unless you are an equity partner (not just a partner) at a large firm, your career is not just difficult and boring, but highly unstable.
Small firms and solos are feast-or-famine. At big firms, associates and non-equity partners get axed/"encouraged to lateral" every day. If you want a stable, "9 to 5" type life, find an industry/product/service that interests you, research it, and retool your skill set so that you can find work in the field (as an added bonus, this process should take less than three years).
Law is not "9 to 5." It's "8 to 11." And job security is about as realistic a prospect as Chris Chan picking up a girl who isn't a troll on OKCupid.
However, because law school deans (and profs and alumni) collectively masturbate over the US News rankings, which depend heavily on the LSAT scores (and to a lesser extent, undergrad GPA) of the student body, they will discount tuition for LSAT scores above their average and waive it entirely for scores significantly above their average.
Also, while intellectual property disputes are hot, and actual intellectual property is worth more than ever, IP law is *not* a lucrative field right now -- two or three lawyers for every job. And, in general, only around half (52% the last time I looked) of law school grads actually secure long-term employment in law.
(Yes, I know, they say you can do "101 things with a law degree." Well, guess what? 100 of them can be done without wasting three years and going $100k+ in debt to get the JD).
If you're really interested in law, do some research. Visit Law School Transparency to get the stats, visit Above the Law to get a feel for the culture (and juicy gossip). Read Paul Campos's "Don't go to Law School (Unless)" (again, can't emphasize that one enough). But in the name of all that is holy, please do not start considering law school because "it may be a fun thing to do." It isn't. Trust me.
PS. My apologies for posting yet another screed (I know the OP was just asking for LSAT tips), but this thread brought up the following thought on the psychology of the law school decision:
I think a lot of people go into law because we have strong research, writing, and logic skills, but don't really know how to turn these real, but rather nebulously applicable skills into a career. So we do our research. We learn that the practice of law doesn't look anything like TV. But we're willing to trade tedium for stability and a clearly defined career path, which we didn't have before.
And that's the thing. From the bottom, all the way to the very top (I spent a couple years at a Vault 50 firm before the hours finally got to me), law is a field where, unless you are an equity partner (not just a partner) at a large firm, your career is not just difficult and boring, but highly unstable.
Small firms and solos are feast-or-famine. At big firms, associates and non-equity partners get axed/"encouraged to lateral" every day. If you want a stable, "9 to 5" type life, find an industry/product/service that interests you, research it, and retool your skill set so that you can find work in the field (as an added bonus, this process should take less than three years).
Law is not "9 to 5." It's "8 to 11." And job security is about as realistic a prospect as Chris Chan picking up a girl who isn't a troll on OKCupid.
G
GS 281
Guest
kiwifarms.net
Thanks for your response. I am inclined to agree with you. I just do not see a future in academia. The trend nowadays is adjunct-only policies. about 70% of work in academia is done by part-timers and adjuncts. The pay for these people is about $20-35k. I just do not see a future in teaching in higher ed. I make good money doing other things that I can't really place on my resume (nothing illegal, but the ethics of what I do is questionable), so I am sort of at a crossroads here. Its either I go down one road where I will have years of work ahead of me before I MIGHT get a meager associate prof job or I continue down the other road where I get paid quite well, but I have to work a lot and have nothing to show for it on my CV. Or... I leave the industry entirely. Law seems fun. I always excelled in my business law classes. Even took a law class in my PhD program. I don't want to pay for it unless it was like a top 5 or top 10 program.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
You're right. Talking about legal stuff is fun. Classes *about* law are fun. But law school itself does not have classes about law. It is still dominated by the socratic method, and the coursework is just rote memorization of cases and rules (generally tested by one high-stakes three hour exam per semester/quarter) and then you have to pay $5-6k for a bar prep course the summer after you graduate because -- and this is true at even the best schools -- they don't actually teach you what you need to know to pass the bar or practice law.
And legal career prospects are actually a lot like academia: A lot of big shots (administrators in academia, big firm partners and famous solos in law) making out like bandits, a solid number of people eking out a reasonable, but not entirely comfortable existence (this is me -- I suppose I'm analogous to a tenure-track humanities prof at a second rate public university), and a bunch of people who scrape together a subsistence life from badly paying part-time/temp work with brutal hours (the adjuncts). And then there's the half (of both PhDs *and* lawyers) who couldn't get any job in the field and go back to what they were doing with years wasted and debt crushing down upon their shoulders.
Sorry to keep ranting. But, seriously. Don't go to law school. You seem like a talented person. Save yourself.
And if you do end up going anyway, do one of two things:
(1) Get into a top 14 school -- there is a world of difference in career prospects between the US News top 14 (the schools from Yale to Georgetown) and everyone else. So much so that the term "T14" is universally recognized throughout the American legal world. Take a practice LSAT -- if you get 165+, you're in good shape (with the PhD and a decent ugrad GPA, 166-168 should get you into GTown, Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern).
(2) Apply to schools where your LSAT is at or above their 75th percentile. Most of them will give you a full ride, and -- not meaning to step on any toes -- other than maybe UCLA, Texas, and your flagship state school if you want to stay in state, all non-T14 schools will give you similar options (and decent ones if you work your ass off, make law review, and get a good clerkship). You just don't get a lot of value for spending a bunch of money to go to Alabama (ranked 23 last I checked) over CUNY (somewhere in the 100s). So go to CUNY for free.
And legal career prospects are actually a lot like academia: A lot of big shots (administrators in academia, big firm partners and famous solos in law) making out like bandits, a solid number of people eking out a reasonable, but not entirely comfortable existence (this is me -- I suppose I'm analogous to a tenure-track humanities prof at a second rate public university), and a bunch of people who scrape together a subsistence life from badly paying part-time/temp work with brutal hours (the adjuncts). And then there's the half (of both PhDs *and* lawyers) who couldn't get any job in the field and go back to what they were doing with years wasted and debt crushing down upon their shoulders.
Sorry to keep ranting. But, seriously. Don't go to law school. You seem like a talented person. Save yourself.
And if you do end up going anyway, do one of two things:
(1) Get into a top 14 school -- there is a world of difference in career prospects between the US News top 14 (the schools from Yale to Georgetown) and everyone else. So much so that the term "T14" is universally recognized throughout the American legal world. Take a practice LSAT -- if you get 165+, you're in good shape (with the PhD and a decent ugrad GPA, 166-168 should get you into GTown, Duke, Cornell, or Northwestern).
(2) Apply to schools where your LSAT is at or above their 75th percentile. Most of them will give you a full ride, and -- not meaning to step on any toes -- other than maybe UCLA, Texas, and your flagship state school if you want to stay in state, all non-T14 schools will give you similar options (and decent ones if you work your ass off, make law review, and get a good clerkship). You just don't get a lot of value for spending a bunch of money to go to Alabama (ranked 23 last I checked) over CUNY (somewhere in the 100s). So go to CUNY for free.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2014
The only caveat I'd add to this is to read the fine print of any scholarship offers. Ones that require you to maintain a minimum GPA above something like a 2.0 are generally scams. At least one school puts all their scholarship students in the same 1L section, so they're all curved against one another, and requires you to maintain a GPA above the curve average to keep your scholarship. They usually spin this as putting you in an "honors" section or some crap.
Anyway at the end of the day, it's a trick to get you to go there for a semester or two, then pull the scholarship out from under you. What are the odds you'll just pack up and leave once you've put in a year at a particular school?
waffle
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2013
Yeah, I will agree with everyone above that unless you know a lot of people in the law who can get you GOOD jobs, or can go to school very cheaply then it isn't a super great idea.
That's basically what all those books Saul was recommending tell you, they add in a bunch of stuff about T-14 schools and big firm jobs, but I have no interest in big firm law.
The other way to make a living is to practice in small towns, especially if you're from one.
That's basically what all those books Saul was recommending tell you, they add in a bunch of stuff about T-14 schools and big firm jobs, but I have no interest in big firm law.
The other way to make a living is to practice in small towns, especially if you're from one.
Picklechu
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2014
My original plan was to get my law degree at the same time as my master's. In hindsight, I'm quite glad that I didn't. The cost (and that is not just in terms of financial cost) to benefit ratio is simply not high enough. I did pretty well on the LSAT a few years ago, but not quite well enough to have everything completely paid for. A law degree can be worthwhile, but the chances of becoming a successful prosecutor or a high-power corporate attorney are pretty small, so if that's solely what you want, you may be better off doing something else. One of the greatest problems is the number of people who go to law school simply because they don't know what else to do.
hellbound
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2013
I took it when for a brief moment I wanted to do patent law. I got a 170. For the most part what got me was the analytical reasoning/logic puzzles part. It can be tricky to solve them in the time you have. If you haven't taken the test yet, check out the Princeton Review or Kaplan books from the library and work your way through them. If you're not feeling more confident after a little bit, Kaplan and PR offer courses. They're kind of pricy but it's a small investment if it'll help you get into a better school, and IF you will use the better school for what you need to: networking. Which brings me to my next point:
this this this this this this this.
I'm not a lawyer and I didn't end up in law school. My brother, though, went to UVA which has consistently been a Top 14 law school (that unusual stat is because the same 14 schools stay at the top but shift within that). He went from low-paid internship to low-paid lawyer job to low-paid law research job for some company that wants to be LexisNexis or Westlaw but probably never will be. He's got law school debt up the wazoo and is pretty unhappy with it, overall. He didn't network much.
Law school is expensive and a good law school even more so, and the job market is flooded with lawyers. It can be a good investment IF and ONLY IF you are willing to bust your ass to make excellent grades and are able to get excellent grades, get on a good extracurricular like moot court or law review or Order of the Coif or ideally several of those, and if you make connections to help you get a job after. Or, if you get scholarships and don't end up in much debt.
Back to my brother, he was offered a full ride at William and Mary (currently ranked #24 by US News) but decided to pay full price for UVA. Then he didn't take advantage of it. Don't do that. If you're going to law school, you better take full advantage of it or you're in for a bad time.
You probably already know that law isn't like TV so I'll skip that lecture. Just realize that those jobs that start at $160k a year fresh out of school are mostly for the top of the class at the top schools who either work and network like crazy or already know somebody, and have zero work-life balance. Many other lawyers start at around $40-60k if they can find a job at all. And again, today that's a big if.
It's not something to do because you're not sure what else to do. I was there and fortunately I realized it early enough. Maybe it is for you, I can't and won't say it isn't, but think hard about it. From somebody with a few lawyers in the family, listen to Saul here.
this this this this this this this.
I'm not a lawyer and I didn't end up in law school. My brother, though, went to UVA which has consistently been a Top 14 law school (that unusual stat is because the same 14 schools stay at the top but shift within that). He went from low-paid internship to low-paid lawyer job to low-paid law research job for some company that wants to be LexisNexis or Westlaw but probably never will be. He's got law school debt up the wazoo and is pretty unhappy with it, overall. He didn't network much.
Law school is expensive and a good law school even more so, and the job market is flooded with lawyers. It can be a good investment IF and ONLY IF you are willing to bust your ass to make excellent grades and are able to get excellent grades, get on a good extracurricular like moot court or law review or Order of the Coif or ideally several of those, and if you make connections to help you get a job after. Or, if you get scholarships and don't end up in much debt.
Back to my brother, he was offered a full ride at William and Mary (currently ranked #24 by US News) but decided to pay full price for UVA. Then he didn't take advantage of it. Don't do that. If you're going to law school, you better take full advantage of it or you're in for a bad time.
You probably already know that law isn't like TV so I'll skip that lecture. Just realize that those jobs that start at $160k a year fresh out of school are mostly for the top of the class at the top schools who either work and network like crazy or already know somebody, and have zero work-life balance. Many other lawyers start at around $40-60k if they can find a job at all. And again, today that's a big if.
It's not something to do because you're not sure what else to do. I was there and fortunately I realized it early enough. Maybe it is for you, I can't and won't say it isn't, but think hard about it. From somebody with a few lawyers in the family, listen to Saul here.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
WHAT.
I applied at w&m for grad school years ago, didn't have a chance in hell of getting in.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php
is a Great resouse (I think they are FAR too gunner and good money at reasonable school is ok)
the short be very careful of most school for example do NOT attend the 2nd rank school in according to Judging the Law School rankings*, do NOT attend a school run by a company that operates numerous law school, Do NOT attend a law school that is not accredited, finally there is Indian Tech School of Law the LoLCow of Law Schools (http://law.indianatech.edu/)
*an alternate school ranking system published by a Cooley Law
is a Great resouse (I think they are FAR too gunner and good money at reasonable school is ok)
the short be very careful of most school for example do NOT attend the 2nd rank school in according to Judging the Law School rankings*, do NOT attend a school run by a company that operates numerous law school, Do NOT attend a law school that is not accredited, finally there is Indian Tech School of Law the LoLCow of Law Schools (http://law.indianatech.edu/)
*an alternate school ranking system published by a Cooley Law
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
I absolutely concur that "good money at a reasonable school" is almost always a better plan than worse money at a better school outside the T14.
That said, unless you want to practice locally (and either have family connections, or are the kind of person who makes friends *very* easily), getting into a T14 is almost always worth the effort. And, even if you don't start out there, anyone with a decent LSAT (160+) and good 1L grades can transfer (Georgetown is especially notorious for taking a shitload of transfers -- all the tuition money with none of the hassle of reporting bad numbers to US News).
You can decry this as "gunnerism" (i.e. over-competitiveness -- a term every law student becomes unfortunately familiar with during 1L), if you like. But ignoring the facts does not change them. Or keep them from affecting you. The US News rankings are king. Whether or not they are "fair," whether or not they are (or even could be) an objective depiction of which schools are "best," they remain an *extremely* accurate gauge of overall career prospects for an incoming student (for precisely the reason that the culture of law is one dominated by douchebag prestige-whore gunners who collectively jack off to US News, thus perpetuating the power of the rankings).
As for how to get into a T14, that's easy. Or rather, difficult but simple. Buckle down and work on your damn LSAT (and if you're still in college, take easy classes to keep your GPA up -- nobody cares what your degree is in). Yes, Top Law Schools is a great resource for information on admissions. But, at the end of the day, getting into law school is a pure numbers game. Everyone says that they do admissions holistically, and judge you "as an individual," but if you look at the actual stats -- either at lsac.org or lawschoolnumbers.com, -- you'll see that it pretty much all boils down to a matrix of LSAT and GPA. Why? These are the numbers they report to US News.
PS. With all due respect to Indiana Tech, if they are a lolcow, Cooley is super-blend of OPL and @Holden. A minor point, I know, but Cooley really is "special" -- whenever I meet a colleague from Cooley at a CLE event, they *always* preface their educational history with "yes, I know, but . . ."
waffle
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2013
I got a full ride to washburn but turned it down because 1. Kansas blows 2. it would cost me as much with room and board as it did to live with my dad and pay for tuition at UMKC 3. I didn't want to go to law school with Fred Phelps's people.
I don't know how nationally know it is but washburn is basically the Cooley on the prairie. It is a Municipal college (yes, that's right) with laughable undergraduate programs and something like a 50-65% bar passage rate (to put that into perspective, my school is in the 95-100% area consistently).
If you want to stay regional and not go to a big firm on the coasts/Chicago it's honestly better to go to the regional school with the best reputation you can get into. If I had went to Harvard and come back to Kansas City people would think their was something wrong with me.
Find some older lawyers who are looking to office share and throw a young guy some tickets and junk cases. Then tighten your belt for a couple years and live simple. I'm in month 11 of practicing and while my first fiscal year I'll have only taken home around 30K, year two is looking like its going to be in the low six figures if things work out right. I also only work 40-50 hours/week instead of the 60-70+ expected at big firms, and have the flexibility to work from home and take off whenever I need to.
I don't know how nationally know it is but washburn is basically the Cooley on the prairie. It is a Municipal college (yes, that's right) with laughable undergraduate programs and something like a 50-65% bar passage rate (to put that into perspective, my school is in the 95-100% area consistently).
If you want to stay regional and not go to a big firm on the coasts/Chicago it's honestly better to go to the regional school with the best reputation you can get into. If I had went to Harvard and come back to Kansas City people would think their was something wrong with me.
Find some older lawyers who are looking to office share and throw a young guy some tickets and junk cases. Then tighten your belt for a couple years and live simple. I'm in month 11 of practicing and while my first fiscal year I'll have only taken home around 30K, year two is looking like its going to be in the low six figures if things work out right. I also only work 40-50 hours/week instead of the 60-70+ expected at big firms, and have the flexibility to work from home and take off whenever I need to.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
@waffle has done it right. Biglaw sucks. Yes, you start at $160k/year, but you also work 70-80 (not 60-70) hour weeks, 50 weeks a year. It averages out to you getting paid c. $45/hour. So, as an hourly rate, I made less in Biglaw than I did the last two years defending drunk drivers in redneck heaven.
That said, I do have a couple observations to add:
(1) Cooley really is a special case. To illustrate: Let's say, in arguendo, that you had gone to Washburn. My internal dialogue would be as follows: "Waffle got a JD from Washburn University, an ABA accredited school. He's a lawyer." But when someone tells me they went to Cooley, it's more like this:
. I can't help it. Nor can a lot of people. Something about being a for-profit, open-admissions law school run by bat-shit tea partiers who publish their own law school rankings that put their school at no. 2 between Harvard and Yale.I also adore how, while remaining for-profit, they spent a bunch of cash (from their students' loan money -- few of their alumni are fiscally solvent, so their funds do not come from donations) to become "affiliated" with Western Michigan U. It's like if Marijan changed his Kiwi screen name, kept right on ranting about rape, and expected us not to notice anymore because he was @WMU-Holden now.
(2) On a more serious note, while you can find very good bargains at regional schools (and if you want to stay local, doing so is almost assuredly better than paying full freight to go to a T14), my experience as a CCN grad (not quite your hypothetical Harvard grad, but pretty close) is that the diploma is *still* a big advantage out in the sticks. In small markets, you get work because of trust. Which you can gain in two ways: (a) developing actual social skills and forming real relationships, or (b) effectively signaling an impression of expertise/elite status. When my colleagues are unsure of where to send someone, they know that they'll never be faulted for referring to an Ivy Leaguer.
TL;DR: Going to a top school doesn't limit you to Biglaw. And is actually a great way to compensate for being an awkward sperg or antisocial asshole (or both, in my case
).
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2015
PS. I have to brag. My background check just went through today, so I'll officially be starting at a fancy (but low-paying) government job in a few weeks.
I still should've gone into engineering, but life is looking up.
I still should've gone into engineering, but life is looking up.
waffle
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2013
@waffle
(2) On a more serious note, while you can find very good bargains at regional schools (and if you want to stay local, doing so is almost assuredly better than paying full freight to go to a T14), my experience as a CCN grad (not quite your hypothetical Harvard grad, but pretty close) is that the diploma is *still* a big advantage out in the sticks. In small markets, you get work because of trust. Which you can gain in two ways: (a) developing actual social skills and forming real relationships, or (b) effectively signaling an impression of expertise/elite status. When my colleagues are unsure of where to send someone, they know that they'll never be faulted for referring to an Ivy Leaguer.
TL;DR: Going to a top school doesn't limit you to Biglaw. And is actually a great way to compensate for being an awkward sperg or antisocial asshole (or both, in my case
Fair enough point.