The Mary Sue/Gary Stu Character Hate Thread - "Teehee, I'm so perfect!"

[m1ddl3m4rch]

I hate Eragon. https://antishurtugal.livejournal.com/732314.html

 

[eDove]

Stephanie Meyer had a character named Melanie Stryder in her Host book(s). I know that because I read the back of it at a library years ago.

The term Mary-Sue has taken on such a definition that I don't think it has to specifically be a self-insert wish fulfillment thing anymore. Sometimes a writer is so attached to a character they've made that they push that character into Mary-Sue territory, though they view him/her as a separate, enviable entity that everyone should love and emulate (or just find really cool/sexy/badass).

Take Empress Theresa, for example. The weird old author didn't make a self-insert per se, but his version of the an ideal, godlike woman woman. He wrote her to be a role-model for young girls everywhere. Theresa is one of the most egregious Sues in existence, but it's not because the author wants to be her. Loving a character too much is enough to make them annoying as fuck and also be totally oblivious to it.

 

[Travoltron]

The term Mary-Sue has taken on such a definition that I don't think it has to specifically be a self-insert wish fulfillment thing anymore. Sometimes a writer is so attached to a character they've made that they push that character into Mary-Sue territory, though they view him/her as a separate, enviable entity that everyone should love and emulate (or just find really cool/sexy/badass).

So Ahsoka Tano then?

 

[SecretMagicalGirl]

The term Mary Sue has been so overused, some people don’t think they actually exist. They couldn’t be more wrong.

If you want to see a guy that genuinely writes textbook self insert Mary Sue characters. That is a thinly veiled self insert wish fulfillment character that has no flaws, is ridiculously overpowered, everyone loves no matter how horrible they may act. And is written with Zero irony or self awareness, look no further than Linkara.

Specifically everything he has ever written ever. The dude just can’t help himself.

He truly has them all: Mary Sue Doctor Who rip-off sue, Sailor moon persona Sue , superhero Sue , Fantasy Mary Sue etc.

Most people outgrow doing Mary Sue phase during their teens. Meawhile him as a grown ass adult he still can’t understand why nobody likes his self insert garbage.

 

[Travoltron]

Yes, it's ill-defined. Would anyone call Superman a Mary Sue, even though he fits many of these criteria? I wouldn't.
It seems to me that it's often when a horrible new character introduced into a pre-existing series that upstages everyone and seems to break the rules of the show.
Like Wesley Crusher in Trek or Rey Palpatine in Star Wars.

 

[Jesus Swept]

Korra. I know I'm late to the Legend of Korra hate party but god is she insufferable. She uses her status as the Avatar to bludgeon everyone around her into submission, and ALWAYS finds a way to blame someone else for her problems. But she is well liked by everyone around her. And unlike Aang, who spent an entire episode struggling to move a boulder, she picked up 3 of the 4 elements somehow as a toddler, learnt airbending magically out of nowhere, learnt metalbending in under 10 seconds, mastered the Avatar state without any of the spirit guru stuff Aang did.

I don't know how they dropped the ball so hard after Avatar.

 

[Monolith]

I would say Gojo but he's finally dead.
So I'll just say every strong independent female lead in western media for the past ten years.

I'd say no even if he survived, because while he's overwhelmingly strong out of pure luck, everyone in-universe finds him irritating. Though it is hard to write "The Strongest, and everyone knows it" well.

As for characters, unironically Barbie.

 

[Counterfeit Obol]

I don't know how they dropped the ball so hard after Avatar.

Same reason why the Star Wars prequel trilogy was scuffed: Brian and Mike's success with the first series resulted in clout and ego that made them think they didn't need editors.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Stephanie Meyer had a character named Melanie Stryder in her Host book(s). I know that because I read the back of it at a library years ago.

The term Mary-Sue has taken on such a definition that I don't think it has to specifically be a self-insert wish fulfillment thing anymore. Sometimes a writer is so attached to a character they've made that they push that character into Mary-Sue territory, though they view him/her as a separate, enviable entity that everyone should love and emulate (or just find really cool/sexy/badass).

Take Empress Theresa, for example. The weird old author didn't make a self-insert per se, but his version of the an ideal, godlike woman woman. He wrote her to be a role-model for young girls everywhere. Theresa is one of the most egregious Sues in existence, but it's not because the author wants to be her. Loving a character too much is enough to make them annoying as fuck and also be totally oblivious to it.

I like to call that case Wife-Sue, when the male author really wants to bang the perfect girl and writes her that way. It's usually the case when an author writes an opposite gender Sue.

There is also a child Sue, where the character is the idealized author child. I'm more lenient for women doing it, while men doing it don't get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[eDove]

I like to call that case Wife-Sue, when the male author really wants to bang the perfect girl and writes her that way. It's usually the case when an author writes an opposite gender Sue.

There is also a child Sue, where the character is the idealized author child. I'm more lenient for women doing it, while men doing it don't get the benefit of the doubt.

Those are really good terms. I'll use them in the future.

Empress Theresa may be an unfortunate combination of the two., The titular girl spends a lot of time in the book as a child before it goes into her teens and young adulthood. So much time is dedicated to her youth that some people theorize that Theresa was always meant to be a child, but the author started developing a "crush" on her, so he aged her up. He emphasizes her beauty and attractiveness often, even a couple times when she's a child.

There's a bizarro part where Theresa's parents determine that she's ready to move up a grade because her hair has grown so lucious and thick that she was destined to be among the older kids.

 

[Toyota Camry]

This car

It's just an old corolla with shit suspension

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Korra. I know I'm late to the Legend of Korra hate party but god is she insufferable. She uses her status as the Avatar to bludgeon everyone around her into submission, and ALWAYS finds a way to blame someone else for her problems. But she is well liked by everyone around her. And unlike Aang, who spent an entire episode struggling to move a boulder, she picked up 3 of the 4 elements somehow as a toddler, learnt airbending magically out of nowhere, learnt metalbending in under 10 seconds, mastered the Avatar state without any of the spirit guru stuff Aang did.

I don't know how they dropped the ball so hard after Avatar.

They wanted the series to be very different from Avatar. Since Aang had to go through learning the elements, Korra just had to learn air bending, the one Aang lacked screen time for. They believed that having Korra learn all the elements would make the series a retread of Avatar.

They also wanted to dip more into world building, which often leaves Korra in a passive role throughout her own series. Just a poor mix of ideas, plus losing one of Avatar’s key writers in the switch, lead to Korra being what it is.

 

[Evil Peter Griffin]

 

[Ensok]

The term Mary Sue has been so overused, some people don’t think they actually exist. They couldn’t be more wrong.

If you want to see a guy that genuinely writes textbook self insert Mary Sue characters. That is a thinly veiled self insert wish fulfillment character that has no flaws, is ridiculously overpowered, everyone loves no matter how horrible they may act. And is written with Zero irony or self awareness, look no further than Linkara.

Specifically everything he has ever written ever. The dude just can’t help himself.

He truly has them all: Mary Sue Doctor Who rip-off sue, Sailor moon persona Sue , superhero Sue , Fantasy Mary Sue etc.

Most people outgrow doing Mary Sue phase during their teens. Meawhile him as a grown ass adult he still can’t understand why nobody likes his self insert garbage.

Your avatar reminds me that while Cure Moonlight isn't one, Cure Flower could potentially be considered a Mary Sue. She's blatantly stronger than any other Cure when we see her fight and we know in the past she acquired the Heartcatch Mirage and defeated Dune all by herself. And this is in a franchise specifically built around teamwork. Cure Heart as well is pretty much a Mary Sue though the show is pretty self-aware about it.

 

[Calandrino]

View attachment 5387305

He fits the bill better than girlboss characters because he wasn't created by somebody who hates Star Trek.

 

[I (Don't) Have A Gun]

Somewhat relevant:

 

[Frank(en) Castle]

IMO people over complicate Mary Sue. For me there are 3 fundamental things you need.
1.) Must be beloved by everyone important (no ones cares if ACKTUALLY NOT MARY SUE! THE JANITOR IN THE BACKGROUND SECRETLY HATES THEM PER WORD OF GOD!) for no explicable reason, and must maintain this status regardless of if it makes any sense.
2.) Must be better than everyone at [insert thing they're good at]. Again no explanation or token non-explanation for this.
3.) Must never personally lose a engagement. They can suffer large scale set backs as part of a group but in a one on one engagement they will always come out on top. I'm talking even if they definitively lose, they somehow are actually now ahead of their opponent, even if it is in the most bullshit nonsense way.

Following these criteria we have Pure Mary Sues

John Kramer (Jigsaw)
Rey Palpatine
Wesley Crusher
Abeloth is a villain sue
Wakanda as a nation

Conditional Mary Sues

Wolverine & Batman under bad writers (This is kind of cheating because you can blame bad writers for anything but these two get it consistently)
Billy Butcher from The Boys, in the same vein many would argue Garth Ennis' Punisher (I would argue against at least Punisher due to almost everyone in universe hating both. It's undeniable though that the universe as a whole schemes to constantly validate these guys)
Pre MtmtE Drift from OG IDW Transformers
Ultra Marines & Grey Knights under the pen of The Spiritual Liege
Post Rebels Ahsoka Tano

Basically what I'm saying is pure consistent no matter what Sue's are a rare breed and require serious fucking delusion or purposeful fuckery. Usually Sue's spring from incompetent writers on specific projects, arcs, being forced to write characters they don't know, etc...

 

[变性黑鬼]

They wanted the series to be very different from Avatar. Since Aang had to go through learning the elements, Korra just had to learn air bending, the one Aang lacked screen time for. They believed that having Korra learn all the elements would make the series a retread of Avatar.

They also wanted to dip more into world building, which often leaves Korra in a passive role throughout her own series. Just a poor mix of ideas, plus losing one of Avatar’s key writers in the switch, lead to Korra being what it is.

Good points, I guess I even agree that it would just be a retread of Avatar if Korra had the exact same journey as him.

I feel like there is such an easy way they could have used this character, together with a world-building focus, to make an awesome story. A child prodigy to whom everything comes easy, everyone recognizes her as Avatar, but she lives in a world that has quickly grown much bigger than the small but comprehensible conflict that Aang found himself in. Being the Avatar has very little meaning besides being a celebrity with some neat superpowers.

That way there is some internal crisis to make Korra a sympathetic characters, rather than a perfect Mary Sue who the crisis is merely happening to and she has to fix the mess that the dummies around her have made.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

I feel like there is such an easy way they could have used this character, together with a world-building focus, to make an awesome story. A child prodigy to whom everything comes easy, everyone recognizes her as Avatar, but she lives in a world that has quickly grown much bigger than the small but comprehensible conflict that Aang found himself in. Being the Avatar has very little meaning besides being a celebrity with some neat superpowers.

That way there is some internal crisis to make Korra a sympathetic characters, rather than a perfect Mary Sue who the crisis is merely happening to and she has to fix the mess that the dummies around her have made.

From what I have seen, they sort of did this exact thing, it just gets clouded under a lack of focus. The story wants to be many things. It wants to have shipping bait and a new Zutara, while not understanding shipping. It wants to be a sequel and focus a lot on the children of the previous cast. Then it also wants to really explore the Avatar universe. All this material makes it so the cast of Korra gets sidelined in their own show, with Korra being the only character to have any use in the main group. Tenzin and Lin do much of the heavy lifting for this series to the point where I wonder why they weren't the new Gaang. One could probably cut Bolin, Mako and Asami and create a stronger cast by just having Korra as the bratty child under the two old folks. I am going to assume Nick would never allow this though.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

E;R has about 5-6 hours of content tearing apppart what he considers to be the worst mary sue, korra from legend of korra.

With a 2 hour intermission tearing appart what he considers the second worst gary stu, Wan, also from legend of korra.

His videos are extremely good, I recommend watching them both for writing advice and for entertainment value, his editing is onpoint.