The Metroid 2 Effect - Is this real or am I insane

Generally a more grounded art style and tone than the first game, to say nothing of other shooters like Halo or Doom.
HL1 had a grounded art style.
You walk through completely ordinary looking canteens, offices, locker rooms, etc.. You had little security guard stations, scientists bickering, etc..
For a secret underground facility invaded by aliens it was as realistic as it could be.
 
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What are some games you'd like to see get the Metroid 2 effect? For me it's The Order 1886 and Batman: Arkham Knight, both from 2015 and both are games that while flawed I feel people were way too dismissive of.

The Order is the definition of "Great concept, botched execution" type game. Turning this into a tech demo was a mistake, for me, The Order needed a few more years to cook up a healthy balance between plot, graphics and gameplay. Its characters felt too basic and one note but I admit I could sense a good cast in there that needed more re-writes. The whole werewolf stuff could have been more decent if maybe we had the member that was secretly a werewolf not be a twist villain but maybe show that not all werewolves are blood thirsty monsters and he legit wants to help the order defeat these malicious werewolves but reminding them that its ultimately their choice if they do good or evil, just like with men, showing that they are maybe not so different.

Besides Im a sucker for Victorian settings so there was that.

Arkham Knight was hated for not being the next City in terms of leap between entries but its hate seems to be dying off (just like with Origins) as people are recognizing at least the stuff that it still did very well. Tho the ending being a confusing mess still doesnt help.
 
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The Order is the definition of "Great concept, botched execution" type game. Turning this into a tech demo was a mistake, for me, The Order needed a few more years to cook up a healthy balance between plot, graphics and gameplay. Its characters felt too basic and one note but I admit I could sense a good cast in there that needed more re-writes. The whole werewolf stuff could have been more decent if maybe we had the member that was secretly a werewolf not be a twist villain but maybe show that not all werewolves are blood thirsty monsters and he legit wants to help the order defeat these malicious werewolves but reminding them that its ultimately their choice if they do good or evil, just like with men, showing that they are maybe not so different.
In gameplay the Order also is a prime example of forced walking taking up far to much of the game. It is 5 hours long but can be drasticaly pulled back if you could skip the QTEs, gauking at stuff, walking and cutcenes. Hell, I may be remembering it wrong, but I think the werewolf battle only is there twice and it's exactly the same.
 
Legend of Dragoon makes all the Final Fantasy plots look boring.

relates to thread: because everyone holds FF as the 'great story telling' RPG but there was the little outcast Legend of Dragoon that had a diverse cast with varying motivations come together and the plot takes you throughout interesting zones with little to no backtracking except in a way that makes you appreciate the game world you are given.
 
In gameplay the Order also is a prime example of forced walking taking up far to much of the game. It is 5 hours long but can be drasticaly pulled back if you could skip the QTEs, gauking at stuff, walking and cutcenes. Hell, I may be remembering it wrong, but I think the werewolf battle only is there twice and it's exactly the same.

Yep, it was a shameless recycle of boss battles. With no twists. At all. That type of crap just oozes of rush to meet a deadline and/or incredible lack of creativity. These are werewolves we are talking about, so many ways you make a boss fight out of fighting one and you go with just dodge-slash-dodge-slash over and over.

Thats why that game failed.
 
HL1 had a grounded art style.
You walk through completely ordinary looking canteens, offices, locker rooms, etc.. You had little security guard stations, scientists bickering, etc..
For a secret underground facility invaded by aliens it was as realistic as it could be.
The huge leap in graphics with the Source engine, especially in the characters faces, compared to 1998 games, was alone a huge leap and added a lot realism.

But just look at Alyx Vance, she was like the only female game character at that time to not have massive boobs and ass.

The Order is the definition of "Great concept, botched execution" type game. Turning this into a tech demo was a mistake, for me, The Order needed a few more years to cook up a healthy balance between plot, graphics and gameplay. Its characters felt too basic and one note but I admit I could sense a good cast in there that needed more re-writes. The whole werewolf stuff could have been more decent if maybe we had the member that was secretly a werewolf not be a twist villain but maybe show that not all werewolves are blood thirsty monsters and he legit wants to help the order defeat these malicious werewolves but reminding them that its ultimately their choice if they do good or evil, just like with men, showing that they are maybe not so different.

Besides Im a sucker for Victorian settings so there was that.

Arkham Knight was hated for not being the next City in terms of leap between entries but its hate seems to be dying off (just like with Origins) as people are recognizing at least the stuff that it still did very well. Tho the ending being a confusing mess still doesnt help.
Some games need a dry run, look at the massive leap in quality from Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 2, Sony were stupid for not giving it another try.
 
Sorry to bring this up again, but one thing I noticed in common from the Metroid fans regarding Samus needing to be buff and an unfeminine tank is that some of them want it because "it would be different from all the conventionally attractive female characters" and that it is more creative than Samus's current "cliche, generic, and unfittingly anime" design.

Thoughts on that kind of justification?
 
Sorry to bring this up again, but one thing I noticed in common from the Metroid fans regarding Samus needing to be buff and an unfeminine tank is that some of them want it because "it would be different from all the conventionally attractive female characters" and that it is more creative than Samus's current "cliche, generic, and unfittingly anime" design.

Thoughts on that kind of justification?
It's bullshit. It's more culture war nonsense (we have an entire thread on that, plus threads on communities like Bikini Battle Armor Damage and r/mendrawingwomen).

I don't want to derail the thread too much, so I recommend those threads if you want a more detailed breakdown, but it will suffice to say that argument fails on many levels. From the lack of an end state (how many ugly not conventionally attractive characters are enough?) to the hypocrisy of resisting this going the opposite way (look at Mass Effect: Andromeda to see how the women get beaten with the ugly stick while the men are supermodels).

That's assuming you get that far. There are foundational flaws, like premise that unattractive = creative when ugly/butch female characters are the cliche now, Mass Effect, Ghostbuster 2016, The Last of Us 2, The Outer Worlds and many more all have ugly female characters to the point where it's difficult to find an attractive female lead in a game these days outside of niche anime games. Or the idea that existing characters need to change instead of making new ones.
 
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Sorry to bring this up again, but one thing I noticed in common from the Metroid fans regarding Samus needing to be buff and an unfeminine tank is that some of them want it because "it would be different from all the conventionally attractive female characters" and that it is more creative than Samus's current "cliche, generic, and unfittingly anime" design.

Thoughts on that kind of justification?

I think she should be athletic but not like bodybuilder. I had to check all of her unarmored appearances and the only ones I don't really like are Prime 2 and 3 and the Smash games but that has more to do with her face just looking weird and shiny like she has some weird makeup on. (and I'm assuming with Smash it's just so she fits in with the rest of the characters)

Looking at the artwork of her in Samus Returns she looks just right. If they want Samus to be Chyna IDK what they're thinking.
 
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The huge leap in graphics with the Source engine, especially in the characters faces, compared to 1998 games, was alone a huge leap and added a lot realism.
They did what they could in 1998 and it's a light year in CPU and graphical capabilities between that and 2004. What made HL2/Source really impressive was that they put so many bones in the faces and had a relatively easy to use interface to manipulate and key facial expressions, plus some very impressive auto lip syncing for dialogue. It also had other clever ideas like how they made the skyboxes and such.
It's bullshit. It's more culture war nonsense (we have an entire thread on that, plus threads on communities like Bikini Battle Armor Damage and r/mendrawingwomen).

I don't want to derail the thread too much, so I recommend those threads if you want a more detailed breakdown, but it will suffice to say that argument fails on many levels. From the lack of an end state (how many ugly not conventionally attractive characters are enough?) to the hypocrisy of resisting this going the opposite way (look at Mass Effect: Andromeda to see how the women get beaten with the ugly stick while the men are supermodels).

That's assuming you get that far. There are foundational flaws, like premise that unattractive = creative when ugly/butch female characters are the cliche now, Mass Effect, Ghostbuster 2016, The Last of Us 2, The Outer Worlds and many more all have ugly female characters to the point where it's difficult to find an attractive female lead in a game these days outside of niche anime games. Or the idea that existing characters need to change instead of making new ones.
I think Prime 1 is a good representation of her physically. With the way Samus runs, jumps and somersaults all over the place she's the space chickens genetically engineered track & field & kill metroids athlete and the women in track and field isn't ogres unless they're troons.
 
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Sorry to bring this up again, but one thing I noticed in common from the Metroid fans regarding Samus needing to be buff and an unfeminine tank is that some of them want it because "it would be different from all the conventionally attractive female characters" and that it is more creative than Samus's current "cliche, generic, and unfittingly anime" design.

Thoughts on that kind of justification?
nerds looking for shit to cry about
 
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