The Morality of Child Murder In Games - Is it okay?

[OhGoy]

I was just thinking about (spoiler-ish, but not really) this scene from RDR2 and those Little Lamplight kids from Fallout 3. Both groups in both games were so smug to the point that several people were tempted to kill them. Obviously, most games (including RDR2 and Fallout 3) won't allow you to kill certain entities (like children) for PR reasons. I'm not asking about the legality or practicality of allowing children to be killed in games, though. I'm asking about the morality.

So, is it okay to kill virtual children?

 

[SJ 485]

"Is it okay to kill virtual polygons"
Yes, retard
If it's morally wrong to kill polygons in the shape of a child then it's morally wrong to kill polygons in the shape of a man too.
Killing kids is funny too.

 

[Cake Farts]

If I can smack around wimmin in RD2 why cant I do the same for the kids

 

[DuckSucker]

RDR specifically to me seems to be a video game adaption of the Spaghetti Western, and those movies have a lot of discussion about "good guys versus bad guys". I watched a youtube "take" on Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, and the guy narrating pointed out that Clint Eastwood actually killed more people in the movie than "The Bad" did -- and he's running a scam where he's turning in Tuco for a bounty, then shooting him down so they can take the money and run and do it again. In Once Upon a Time in the West, it opens with Henry Fonda killing a little kid.

This isnt really new ground; Im not really a "games as art" type of person, but in the scheme of storytelling and art, this sort of discussion has been had a lot.

I dont think they should try and hide the idea because "Oh it's wrong." Has there been any real proof that violence in media correlates with actual real world violence?

 

[byuu]

Kids in Fallout games have it coming.
Like those thieving shits in FO2.

And I don't even want to think about Little Lamplight.
It's not even that you can't kill them, you can't do anything but bend over backwards for some little kid with a pea shooter behind a flimsy gate. Even if it's the same character that just nuked a whole settlement for a pitiful amount of caps.

 

[Nekromantik]

I didn't like the kids in Skyrim. Why does Bethesda make such annoying kid characters that never shut up.

 

[SJ 485]

Has there been any real proof that violence in media correlates with actual real world violence?

There's been loads of research done on the subject and they've always found the opposite to be true, the availability of violent video games correlates with a lower rate of violent crime and playing violent video games lowers aggression after playing. All of that Jack Thompson shit is total bollocks.

 

[eldri]

I didn't like the kids in Skyrim. Why does Bethesda make such annoying kid characters that never shut up.

Bethesda did the same in Fallout 3 with Little Lamplight.
I wanted to kill all of those little shits.

 

[Coelacanth]

If anybody has any qualms about killing virtual kids in games then they most likely haven't played the first Silent Hill. They'd change their minds pretty quickly after having to deal with these little bastards:

I know they're not actually kids (FUN FACT: they're actually in the American game because in the Japanese Silent Hill you went up against Puppet Nurse-esque demon children which was a big no no at the time in the west), but my point still stands. If people really had a problem with it then wouldn't killing adults in games be banned too? Even if an adult was threatening your very existence? It's ridiculous imo and the fact that people are making a big deal out of it is pathetic.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

It’s a video game. It’s not real

 

[Edgeworth]

I think the "issue" should be addressed at the root: the morality-based choice system that's been implemented in a lot of games recently: if you don't want someone to act "morally reprehensible" in a game, don't give them that choice. And that includes women, innocents, animals, etc.

That being said, yeah, I'd really like to shoot (or at least deck) a kid in the face if they have a coding habit of stealing my shit or being a smug asshole; it's fake. I can't do anything about a screaming child in a store or a bratty half-pint at a family gathering in real life (not without legal ramifications, at least). Or you could just not have kids in your game since they're sacred cows not to be trifled with unless they serve some story-based importance (see: Jack, Clementine, some sick kid off-screen to provide a moral dilemma for).

 

[SiccDicc]

Take my caps, that's a bullet in the back.
Take my satchel, that's a fire bottle to the face.
Set me up for a mugging and I'm killing all of you. Everyone in the vicinity dies.

It's just a game. A toy. A fantasy.

Bethesda did the same in Fallout 3 with Little Lamplight.
I wanted to kill all of those little shits.

First mod I installed let me murder all of them.

 

[Judge Holden]

Pros
- Better worldbuilding and immersion since the old "wipe out a town" thing we all inevitably try in any given game no longer has to break immersion to loudly declare (figuratively speaking) that "OH YEAH BUT ALL THE BULLETS MISSED THE KIDS BECAUSE REASONS!"
- Better emotional punch/emotional incentive regarding child characters who will die if you fuck up in the story (and yes I know only a faggot would get emotionally invested in a vidya story, but hey sometimes the writing works well enough to pull it off)
- Better horror/disturbing factor in games with heavy horror elements (since having mutilated zombie kids try to swarm you is theoretically pretty disturbing....admittedly Dead Space 2 didnt really manage it but hey they atleast tried)

Cons
- Somebody will probably screech about it in the media and try to cause a new moral hysteria about nothing
- aforementioned emotional punch/horror factors will probably wear off a bit if it becomes commonplace

In terms of ingame examples, I echo what others mentioned about fallout 3, and would like to add that you can sell children to slavers (led by a literal sex slaver so...yeah connect the dots) but apparently killing them is off limits which seems rather strange, also I mentioned the Dead Space series and its impressive commitment to allowing mass infanticide of zombie kids and babies in some highly entertaining manners (though they probably were not as disturbing as the narrative designers hoped since it was just so hilarious watching some nigger in power armour stamp screaming babies to death while he grunts in possible arousal or rips his way through a school using a fucking minigun to mow down kids)

 

[King Buzzo]

There's been loads of research done on the subject and they've always found the opposite to be true, the availability of violent video games correlates with a lower rate of violent crime and playing violent video games lowers aggression after playing. All of that Jack Thompson shit is total bollocks.

I'm surprised that there is no careercow thread on Jack Thompson, given his "no violent video games, goy" crusade.

But yeah, they're just video game characters and nothing more.

 

[Keystone]

@ all you people who didn't download the "Kill Kids" mod in Fallout 3 specifically because MacReady was the most annoying little shit in that entire game.

I'm surprised that there is no careercow thread on Jack Thompson, given his "no violent video games, goy" crusade.

He more or less fucked off after getting disbarred and hasn't really made any noteworthy waves since then. No new material from a cow isn't the best for a potential thread's longevity.

...also I mentioned the Dead Space series and its impressive commitment to allowing mass infanticide of zombie kids and babies in some highly entertaining manners (though they probably were not as disturbing as the narrative designers hoped since it was just so hilarious watching some nigger in power armour stamp screaming babies to death while he grunts in possible arousal or rips his way through a school using a fucking minigun to mow down kids)

Spoiler

 

[Mapo Tofu]

I don't think it's wrong because it's pixels but it feels odd.
Like atleast it isn't killing kids cause of your avant garde self pretentious bullshit movie (I am looking at you Lars Von Trier) but it feels odd to do it yourself in game because it's the concept that's odd

 

[Safir]

I think the "issue" should be addressed at the root: the morality-based choice system that's been implemented in a lot of games recently: if you don't want someone to act "morally reprehensible" in a game, don't give them that choice. And that includes women, innocents, animals, etc.

That being said, yeah, I'd really like to shoot (or at least deck) a kid in the face if they have a coding habit of stealing my shit or being a smug asshole; it's fake.

I'm wondering what the hell is wrong with game designers that they purposefully make "innocents" into annoying twats the average player would itch to kill. Then the mods appear and the designers are like "lel, wasn't us".

RPGs especially are supposed to frictionlessly translate player choice to character action and motivate players into making supported choices. Any unsupported choice you want to make that's not covered by the provisional agreement to buy into the game's central premise is when the game fails. But add a rare dialogue line here, a hat there, throw in a hidden steam achievement and players would be showing off on youtube who has the dopest orphanage with the best-behaved kids, prettiest marms, and freshest broccoli.

 

[RadicalCentrist]

Like those thieving shits in FO2.

You could kill those pickpockets (and all kids) in FO2.

This is unused Pip Boy art from 2. While they never included the "child killer" perk, you could still do it.

 

[byuu]

You could kill those pickpockets (and all kids) in FO2.

I know. That's why the Master gave us super stims.

And FO2 did have the child killer perk just like 1.

 

[Xerxes IX]