The Morality of Child Murder In Games - Is it okay?

[Carcinogenesis]

I'd argue that enslaving children is a lot worse, and yet you can do just that while the Fallout series forces you not to kill them just because.

 

[Namesarehardtocomeupwith]

Interesting. The general consensus in the KiA topic is that lolicon is considered sexualising children all the same but according to the poll here people are actually chill with killing children in games. Is being able to jack off to it or not the difference?

On topic, I voted yes. I'm all for increase the degree of freedom in player's choices and actions.

 

[Clop]

Fallout 2 was infamous about patching the pick-pocketing kids out of the game because of UK babies complaining. It just didn't remove the kids, they still exist, they're simply invisible and can still pick-pocket you (a community patch puts them right back in). Normally a person who didn't want to get their stuff back from the fence or kill a kid (you'd get a nasty perk that'd make people hate your ass real quick) would just pick-pocket the kids for their stuff back, but that became impossible when they weren't there to aim at.

Killing fictional characters is no more or less moral no matter who or what it is, it's asinine to even go that path. As a result any video games wanting to use kids has to walk on eggshells, like turning them immortal and ruining a lot of the immersion (not that Bethesda ever gave a shit about immersion in the first place since plenty NPCs are immortal because the fucksticks don't know how to make a truly open RPG). For me this wasn't such a problem until kids who were simply flavor for the scenery started talking like egomaniacal dipshits and you're playing someone you've decided is morally on the end of Hitler's ass-wipings. Doesn't help that Bethesda's faces are fucking terrible and uncanny on kids. If you want me to feel morally conflicted about it, you need to first be allowed to write so (fat chance) and then put in the effort to make me give a shit.

It's pretty dumb to limit a game writer's range by crippling what you're allowed to put in a video game, but I can live with games not having a bunch of screeching shits in them so whatever, but plenty of games including RDR2 have taught me that the outrage mob will not stop complaining about some "hidden implications" of killing X in a video game. Hopefully the whining will simply be just whining and game companies won't seriously start pulling out grown women as well for the sake of feels. It's fiction. Make-believe. You're not killing a starving peasant and you're not killing a Nazi, you're staring at a painting and interpreting it your way, and video game interpretation can include anything that the game designer wanted to put in, including blowing up the upper half of the little shit who just stole five bucks from your pocket.

I think you can kill children in some of the Ultima games

 

[QU 734]

You cannot harm a fictional character, no matter how old it appears to be.

 

[LN 910]

It's not something that's wholely necessary but if people wanna do it that's what mods are for.

 

[Overcast]

Personally, I would just like it for the sake of having an option in certain games.

You could kill these kids, but why would you want to? And what kind of consequences will happen if you do?

 

[vertexwindi]

Personally, I would just like it for the sake of having an option in certain games.

You could kill these kids, but why would you want to? And what kind of consequences will happen if you do?

You can in the old FO titles but then everyone will label you a child killer, which is like the second worst thing you could ever be labelled even in a post-apocalyptic wasteland so it's only really good for edge points. So there's that.

 

[Overcast]

You can in the old FO titles but then everyone will label you a child killer, which is like the second worst thing you could ever be labelled even in a post-apocalyptic wasteland so it's only really good for edge points. So there's that.

Yup.

It can really add to the experience. It shows that despite being in an post-apocalyptic setting, even the hardest and most brutal of people have some morals and standards and will actively punish you for doing something as heinous as killing an innocent child

 

[AnimuGinger]

Bioshock let you murder children, albeit off screen.

 

[Medicated]

I didn't like the kids in Skyrim. Why does Bethesda make such annoying kid characters that never shut up.

The Brotherhood Squires in Fallout 4 were so annoying, it was funny when you found out that enemies actually viewed them as hostiles despite being invincible, you'd have 10 ghouls just beating the crap out of them. Felt like it was payback all the time kids ended up alerting guards in Skyrim. I still don't know how Horses and chickens reported crimes to the guards though.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

Fallout 2 was infamous about patching the pick-pocketing kids out of the game because of UK babies complaining. It just didn't remove the kids, they still exist, they're simply invisible and can still pick-pocket you (a community patch puts them right back in). Normally a person who didn't want to get their stuff back from the fence or kill a kid (you'd get a nasty perk that'd make people hate your ass real quick) would just pick-pocket the kids for their stuff back, but that became impossible when they weren't there to aim at.

I keep seeing stuff about kids pick-pocketing in Fallout 2, and I gotta ask, do they steal your guns under your nose? Because I swear, there was this one time I went out and got ambushed and my gun was fucking gone. I was so confused and enraged I kinda ragequit there because it was the only one I had (it was the shitty pipe-rifle) and I had no other means to defend myself. I thought it just glitched itself out of existence, but if this is the case then it certainly explains everything.

 

[Clop]

I keep seeing stuff about kids pick-pocketing in Fallout 2, and I gotta ask, do they steal your guns under your nose? Because I swear, there was this one time I went out and got ambushed and my gun was fucking gone. I was so confused and enraged I kinda ragequit there because it was the only one I had (it was the shitty pipe-rifle) and I had no other means to defend myself. I thought it just glitched itself out of existence, but if this is the case then it certainly explains everything.

Bingo. Your stuff's gone to the fence to be resold back to you at an unreasonable price. They can indeed also steal your weapons. I still remember losing my sawed-off to one of these little cunts when I was a kid and I did not hesitate to.. politely pickpocket it back since I just happened to have a decent skill level at the time.

Incidentally, here's a couple fun ways to avoid child killer perk if you feel sadistic (you're on kiwi farms, no need to play coy):

1. get a party member and then fling a small stone at an orphan. Assuming no community patch ever fixed this little exploit - I haven't checked - the small stone doesn't actually do damage and doesn't cause you to appear hostile, but suddenly your friend Sulik bullrushes the orphan child and bashes his fucking head inside his neck with a sledgehammer

2. put all your inventory aside except for a primed explosive of your choice, then walk past one of the pickpocketing soon-to-be-stains-on-the-sidewalk


Some people also suggest turning on combatmode to use your one turn's AP to walk past kids since they cannot pickpocket during a combat turn, but that's obviously a pussy move to avoid having any damn fun.

 

[GethN7]

After seeing all the controversy over this, I'm fine with it being a choice with consequences in any game.

Killing anyone IRL has a consequences, regardless of reason, intent, or circumstance, and applies to kids and adults IRL, why not the same for videogames?

I'd be disturbed by a game that outright glorified child murder with no consequences obviously, nor would I want to encourage it to be made, but if it's included as a moral choice with ups and downs that you, the player, must decide in advance whether the risks are worth it, then sure, let it happen.

Besides, IRL, if a child has a gun and is aiming it at you with the intent and ability to fire it, potentially killing you, self defense is a reasonable outcome by you, even if by lethal means, and yes, the YOU KILLED A KID blowback will happen, even if you had a justified reason (self defense against getting killed yourself), but only proves my point that such actions IRL have moral upsides and downsides, and if games want to be realistic they should mirror reality in every regard possible.

 

[Stoneheart]

After seeing all the controversy over this, I'm fine with it being a choice with consequences in any game.

Killing anyone IRL has a consequences, regardless of reason, intent, or circumstance, and applies to kids and adults IRL, why not the same for videogames?

I'd be disturbed by a game that outright glorified child murder with no consequences obviously, nor would I want to encourage it to be made, but if it's included as a moral choice with ups and downs that you, the player, must decide in advance whether the risks are worth it, then sure, let it happen.

Besides, IRL, if a child has a gun and is aiming it at you with the intent and ability to fire it, potentially killing you, self defense is a reasonable outcome by you, even if by lethal means, and yes, the YOU KILLED A KID blowback will happen, even if you had a justified reason (self defense against getting killed yourself), but only proves my point that such actions IRL have moral upsides and downsides, and if games want to be realistic, they should mirror reality in every regard possible.

nono, you evil nazis! Videogames should always be inclusive savespaces.

you maybe miss good games like fallout, but we are new in the year 201X, we dont kill children anymore and all the cool stuff is behind microtrasnactions.
i will now go back to exterminate every last alien in stellaris. fuckn xeno scum doesnt deserve to breath.

 

[eldri]

I'm going to preface this by saying I like the idea of killing kids....in Minecraft

 

[Lysol]

I don't think it's immoral, as @Feels Over Reals put it, you can't harm something that doesn't exist. It'd be like saying that any painting with depictions of violence against children shouldn't be shown.

Interesting. The general consensus in the KiA topic is that lolicon is considered sexualising children all the same but according to the poll here people are actually chill with killing children in games. Is being able to jack off to it or not the difference?

Mankind has been, is, and probably forever will be more comfortable with violence than sex. So yes, being able to jack off to it or not is indeed the difference.

 

[Bunny Tracks]

It's fucked up, but at the end of the day it's just a game.

 

[Zaryiu]

If it fits the narrative of the game? Sure why not. It's there so people can feel edgy and it has nothing to do with the rest of the game? Then no

 

[omori]

Balgruuf’s kids deserve a good killing if you ask me.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Killing anyone IRL has a consequences, regardless of reason, intent, or circumstance, and applies to kids and adults IRL, why not the same for videogames?

...because the reset button? You press it and the simulation starts anew without any residual effects, moral or otherwise.
OH! And also, centuries of policing the many has taught us that it never disuades the motivated few. Pervs'll crank-it to anything and everything; can't let that be your moral compass.