The Pence Rule: useful, stupid, pragmatic or antiquated? - Share your opinion

[Monika H.]

Recently, the #MeToo movement faced a backlash because as to avoid sexual misconduct allegations, many bosses and corporate executives have adopted the so-called Pence Rule.
The Pence rule (which was first worked out by Bill Graham) is defined as essentially cutting off every contact with any woman who is not your spouse or your mother.
Wikipedia defines it:

The Billy Graham rule is a practice among male evangelical Protestant leaders, in which they avoid spending time alone with women to whom they are not married. It is named after Billy Graham, a proponent of the practice, although recently has also been called the Mike Pence rule.[1] It is adopted as a display of integrity, a means of avoiding sexual temptation, and to avoid any appearance of doing something considered morally objectionable, but has been criticized as being sexist.

So, Kiwis, what are your opinion on the matter?
The Pence rule is stupid, pragmatic, sexist or....?
Share your thoughts.

 

[skiddlez]

What a sad world we live in. Not only have plenty of men stopped talking to women other than their mother, but now it's probably going to be held as a good idea or a gold standard.

I remember a time when women and men used to like each other.

 

[QU 734]

stupid, pragmatic, sexist

Yes, yes and yes. Weird time to be alive.

 

[TiggerNits]

Women were the best thing a man could own. Now they're the worst thing a man can associate with

 

[RG 448]

cutting off every contact with any woman who is not your spouse or your mother.

They just took the incel rule and tacked “spouse” on it. Nobody’s fooled.

 

[eldri]

In its previous uses, the Pence Rule was fucking retarded because the men that used it placed the pussy on the pedestal which is also fucking retarded.
Nowadays, the Pence Rule is applied not out of temptation but it is a response to the pussification of young women in the work force. Our society builds women up far higher than men are by treating them with a lace glove. In the corporate world, no one gives a shit about you and only want to see results. It's stressful, many fail, but damn does it feel good to succeed.
So why would the corporate higher ups (some of which are women) want to deal with new employees who are emotionally incapable of handling a dog-eat-dog environment.
I've been in a similar situation before, when I worked for a research laboratory. It was all about results and, to make sure I could handle it as a new employee, my boss would constantly find buttons to push in order to get me to react and then proceed to push those buttons. The key to surviving is to not take it personal, but young women are not bred like that.

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

They were wrong when they said the future is female; in truth, the future is faggotry

Go gay today!

 

[Monika H.]

I've spoken about it with my wife, and she finds it exceptional. She says that in her opinion, which I share for the most part precautions should be taken as to avoid any inappropriate behavior and abuse scenario. Applying that rule in a professional setting would simply be unprofessional. If I should act this way with my female colleagues or her male colleagues behave this way with her, we'd probably have our careers kaput, the both of us.
Outside the work setting, she said she'd prefer me to avoid having too much contact with women that aren't her, her mother and sister, and my family. But that's just her being jealous and she knows it.

 

[skiddlez]

"According to a 2017 poll conducted by the Morning Consult for the New York Times, 53% of women and 45% of men believe that it would be inappropriate to have dinner alone with someone of the opposite sex who is not their spouse, compared to 35% of women and 43% of men who would consider it appropriate."

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/upshot/members-of-the-opposite-sex-at-work-gender-study.html

Women are the ones who seem to believe in it the most, but on the contrary, are also complaining about it the most. Twitter women who started the #MeToo movement are complaining, as well as various female writers.

Men don't seem to want to do this as much, but I assume feel obligated out of fear of losing their career over a sexual assault allegation.

"The rule has been criticized for viewing women merely as potential objects of lust as well as restricting opportunities for women to network with male colleagues. Tracey Bianchi argues that it means "Women are marginalized and cut out of opportunities to network, share their ideas, and advance in the organization." "

"Employment lawyer Joanna Grossman wrote that the Pence rule, when applied to workplace dinners, could be illegal labor discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

Sources: https://www.christianitytoday.com/women-leaders/2016/june/ladies-who-lunch-with-men.html?paging=off
https://relevantmagazine.com/slice/twitter-tangles-with-the-billy-graham-rule/
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/3/31/15132730/pence-women-alone-rule-graham-discrimination

Quotes taken from Wikipedia, individual sources listed.

 

[Black Waltz]

It's the dumbest shit I've ever heard tbh

 

[Nekromantik]

Men don't seem to want to do this as much, but I assume feel obligated out of fear of losing their career over a sexual assault allegation.

I had a friend say something like this. Best to keep things professional and strictly business so that nothing I say can be taken the wrong way.

 

[QU 734]

Applying that rule in a professional setting would simply be unprofessional. If I should act this way with my female colleagues or her male colleagues behave this way with her, we'd probably have our careers kaput, the both of us.

I don't know if it's legally mandated, but in the US, you'd be hard pressed to find a doctor who will treat a patient of the opposite sex without a chaperone. I can absolutely see that catching on in other professions when we're seeing that something as retarded as an allegation on twitter of a decade old impropriety can affect a person's livelihood or a company's stock.

 

[Douglas Reynholm]

They just took the incel rule and tacked “spouse” on it. Nobody’s fooled.

Of course that's what you want in an executive. An Islamic incel with mummy issues. Me too is somehow aligned with this twattery, go figure.

 

[Pickle Inspector]

Pewdiepie weighed in on this after videogame Twitch streamer Ninja said he avoids playing with female streamers -

He makes a good point about there being a lot of crazy people out there who just love to create drama out of nothing.

 

[millais]

If it is truly a foolproof solution at avoiding scandal, then it is hard to find a serious fault with it. Presumably the people practicing it have more to lose than most in event of scandal

 

[ZeCommissar]

How the fuck so you even put this into practice? You HAVE to interact with women if you run a buisness, there is literally no way around it. Maybe we are taking it too literally and some interaction is allowed.

Also how do single people date if they can't interact with the opposite sex? I know a evalengical would probably say some stupid shit like "just use your church bro"

Also isn't this practiced in Islamic societies as well?

IIRC some Islamic laws state that a woman can't interact with a man that isn't family or her husband without her husband or family being around. I'm not sure if the males are restricted in the same way.

 

[Scratch This Nut]

This is dumb.

 

[Slowboat to China]

I think it's a bit ridiculous, especially for women in the workplace; speaking as the only woman on a team of five, if I had to wait for the guys' wives to show up before we worked on the project, nothing would ever get done. And it smells of that weird Evangelical no-fun-ever rule.

However, with #MeToo spinning way the fuck out of control, I'm starting to see why some people might choose to adopt this. Not men who have to be part of a busy workplace, but bosses doing interviews, celebrities in public places, etc. Everyone is on the sexual harassment chopping block except Mike Pence, and for this exact reason. It's a bit like wearing a biohazard suit during an ebola outbreak: uncomfortable as fuck, but you're less likely to die.

Versions of this policy have been in place for legal reasons before, too. When I worked third shift at a grocery store, I would occasionally be called in to act as a female witness when a female shoplifter was caught. Legally, the security personnel (all male) couldn't question her without another woman being present, lest later accusations of misconduct arise.

The fact that some people even contemplate any widespread use of the Mike Pence Rule tells me that society has turned inside-out somehow. It smacks of a kind of reverse chaperonage. Remember in ye olden dayes, back when women weren't supposed to go out paying calls uninvited or traveling unchaperoned? That was supposed to be for their protection. Now dudes are the ones needing chaperones, lest their career get raped.

 

[Monika H.]

Articles I've read share the opinion that it's unprofessional and probably illegal, as it can be mandated to gender discrimination.

Still, there are men who not only apply the rule in the work setting, but even outside.
If they are single, they spurn entirely the idea of a female partner. According to some opinionists, avoiding friendly/romantic relations with women should be considered unfair and discriminatory.

 

[Y2K Baby]

I ran away from women before it was cool.