UN The sounds of separation -- how 8 minutes of audio changed the immigration debate - this is surely the end of blumpffle

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/22/politics/donald-trump-pro-publica-sound/index.html

(CNN)The sounds are unmistakable: Children sobbing. Hard. Begging to be allowed to see their parents, their aunt, a relative. And then crying again when told that isn't possible.

The nearly eight minutes of audio -- capturing conversations between children separated from their parents and border patrol workers and published by Pro Publica -- is difficult to listen to. It's heart-wrenching. It's tear-inducing. And, within the space of five days, those children have become the face -- or, rather, the voice -- of the border separation crisis and the Trump administration's botched handling of it.
On Friday, Democratic California Rep. Ted Lieu played the audio on the House floor. He was asked to stop by Rep. Karen Handel, a Georgia Republican, who was presiding over the House floor at that moment. He didn't stop. (You can watch the whole thing here.)

Earlier in the week, New Jersey Sen. Bob Menendez did the same thing -- playing the audio on the floor of the world's greatest deliberative body. Protestors played the audio outside of Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen's house. New York magazine reporter Olivia Nuzzi played the audio during White House press secretary Sarah Sanders' daily briefing.
It became the soundtrack of the week in politics -- and in the culture more broadly. The terrified cries and wails of the children bored into you, made it impossible for you to ignore their plight -- and the policy that led them to such a sad state.

The eight minutes of audio more than anything else -- even the now-controversial photo of a young girl crying -- came to define the human face (or voice) behind this policy change by the Trump administration.
And the power of those crying kids is something that President Donald Trump and his team clearly didn't plan for. Trump, earlier in the week, insisted a) he was sticking by the "zero-tolerance" policy because it was the only way to toughen the borders and b) he lacked the power to change the policy. (That second part was not true -- then or now.)
Within 48 hours -- as the audio was played and replayed hourly on cable TV -- Trump, ever the pragmatist, realized he was fighting a battle he couldn't hope to win. No matter how much his base loves his tough-guy act on the border, the sounds of little children crying for their parents was winning out. So he reversed course -- signing an executive order that allows kids to be detained alongside their parents for more than 20 days. (The legal prospects of Trump's executive order are dicey.)
The whole episode is a reminder of how dry policy crafted in some conservative (or liberal) think tank crumbles when faced with audio or video that speaks to the common human emotions we all share.
What the audio reminds us is this: At root, the most important part of this border story isn't the parents trying to enter the country illegally. (That's not to say that doesn't matter; it does.) It's the children -- blameless in all of this -- who are being separated from their parents and, in some cases, flown to other states where they are even more isolated and alone.

No one -- not even the hardest of the immigration hardliners -- can listen to the audio of the young kids crying and not be reminded that they are the real victims here, and the ones who really need our protection.

 

[Maggots on a Train]

Every day, American kids get to cry because they live in poverty, and an endless flow of people willing to work for $2 an hour and leach all the gibs isn't helping things.

 

[wellthathappened]

If you are willing to work for 2 dollars an hour while citizens refuse to work at all, where does the fault lie?

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

I'm a leftist but a welfare state does need strong borders and take care of it's citizens before anyone else. Especially social democratic countries like the Nordic ones. I think social democracy is one of the better non-socialist systems but not if you let it be abused by any foreigner.

These US liberals are hurting their own case. They advocate for welfare programs and how they work well in many countries, conservatives say we can't afford it, then liberals say not only do we need welfare programs but anyone who comes there should have access to them. I hope one of those cuck US activists helping bring illegal US immigrants to live in Canada has their head blown off by a crazy hillbilly Quebec nationalist.

From what I've seen on the news, the "cages" they keep the children in don't look dirty, scary and institutional. Looks like a clean, brightly colored boarding school designed to not scare children. It's probably nicer than the public schools where they came from.

I usually watch the news everyday but all this biased crap whitewashing illegal immigrants, whether coming across the US southern boarder of the Mediterranean sea, is just tiresome. As tiresome as the whole laughable Russia conspiracy.

These countries who take in unproductive illegals don't support their own impoverished citizens well enough who have lived there for centuries. Please explain to me why the boats coming to Europe are all full of niggers who look nothing like Syrians or Yemenis yet they blame it on those two conflicts? African economic migrants. Letting them runaway to functional countries just excuses African corruption. They don't have to provide some standard of living if they can all go to Europe and get gibs.

Americans are known to install leaders illegal who are pro-US. They are the masters are undermining other countries' economies and elections. I can see Russia undermining elections of some unpowerful country like Georgia or smaller Slavic countries but not the fucking United States. Russia is poor compared to them.

 

[wellthathappened]

I'm a leftist but a welfare state does need strong borders and take care of it's citizens before anyone else. Especially social democratic countries like the Nordic ones. I think social democracy is one of the better non-socialist systems but not if you let it be abused by any foreigner.

These US liberals are hurting their own case. They advocate for welfare programs and how they work well in many countries, conservatives say we can't afford it, then liberals say not only do we need welfare programs but anyone who comes there should have access to them. I hope one of those cuck US activists helping bring illegal US immigrants to live in Canada has their head blown off by a crazy hillbilly Quebec nationalist.

There's no horrible concentration camps, regardless of what George Takei Tweets. With that said, perhaps your leftist ideas of a welfare state causes these problems.

 

[Figuratively Stalin]

Oh no. Jesus fucking Christ on a bike. Not this again. Why think of actual ARGUMENTS to back up your point when you have muh feels? A bunch of kids crying isn't an argument. They won't even be crying if it wasn't for their dumbass parents breaking the law.
I fucking despise this guilt-tripping thing brainlets like to use when they're left without arguments. It's the same kinda shit they do in Palestine, they bring kids to their protests and when they inevitably get offed, they screech "BUT MUH KIDS!!1" and instantly get everyone's sympathy and support. It is not only not a valid argument but incredibly manipulative. Absolutely fucking disgusting.

 

[OhGoy]

Spoiler: i wonder why democrats are so pro-immigrant

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

I don't really support nation states at all. I believe in ethnic regionalism. But if you have one, you have to offer some form of support for the citizens.

 

[wellthathappened]

I don't really support nation states at all. I believe in ethnic regionalism.

That's a little too weird for me. Just not my thing. I prefer markets over ethnic pride.

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

That's a little too weird for me. Just not my thing. I prefer markets over ethnic pride.

It could have a market socialist economy. Worker ownership doesn't mean you need a centrally planned economy. That has failed everywhere it's been tried but socialism itself is about worker ownership and class elimination, not centrally planned economies, authoritarian states and other crappy things 20th century "socialist" state capitalist countries had. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

 

[Gentleburd]

Why are they acting as if the kids will never see their families again? They will be reunited when they are sent back home, right? It’s just a matter of waiting until they are processed.
These people catastrophizing everything are making it worse.

 

[CWCissey]

Audio only? This was totally recorded at a detention camp and not at home then produced to sound like many kids whinging!

 

[formerfatcow]

This is heart breaking audio from a detention camp? The kids sound sad sure, but kids sound sad when you tell them they can't watch Paw Patrol. The border agents explained very calmly to the kids what was going on, reassured them that they'd do everything they could to get them to see their families again, helped them make phone calls to family, and are making sure all the kids are fed in a timely manner. What is so horrific about this?

 

[Sir Auroras]

Harsh but fair.

 

[millais]

It's a positive indicator of general well-being when kids are crying and making noisy racket. You should be worried when they stop, because that means they're dead and you really done fucked up.

 

[vertexwindi]

This doesn't change any debate, it's not even an argument, just an appeal to emotion. "Look how sad these people are! Let's take them all in, get rid of borders, give free money!"

 

[Coldgrip]

Anybody with kids learns to tune out crying.

 

[melty]

Lol I'm not listening to eight minutes of kids crying. Who does that shit? If I did I'd probably want to deport them myself. I'm getting really sick of this muh kids shit. I just saw a huffpo headline about a Senate candidate arrested trying to "deliver supplies" to kids... Why?? They are well fed and cared for. This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Fork Cartel]

Seems like overly-speculative splash experting but nonetheless:

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/kids-suffer-permanent-damage-border-separations-n883636

“We know that separation of children from loving caregivers promotes something called toxic stress in their brain,” Kraft said. “There are certain patterns of stress that result in disruptions of brain architecture in children and can result in young children in developmental delays.”

It can also cause physical symptoms, said Dr. Ana María López, president of the American College of Physicians.

"The lifetime impacts range from behavioral problems and mental health trauma to a person’s physiology," she said.

But anyway, how is the shitty potato-quality recording supposed to make me feel bad? It's pretty quiet and I can barely make any words out

 

[HG 400]

tfw we've been putting our refugees in offshore detention camps for years and even in Trump's America you burgerfats can't manage it

 

[Bunny Tracks]

Honestly, I sympathize with the kids. They've been forced to go with their parents into a foreign nation illegally and are now being separated from them and being held in a facility that doesn't exactly scream home. I understand why they're upset. They're scared, and confused, miss their parents and their homes. I understand, and truly do sympathize with them and am very happy that Trump is allowing them to be with their parents again.

However, their parents still committed a crime and need to be held accountable to it. To put it simply: you do the crime, you do the time. I understand that Mexico is a shitty place to live and they wanted something better, but coming here illegally is not the answer. If you truly do want to come to America, do it the legal way. I know it can take years of waiting and hard work and it might seem impossible, but it's still better than trying to come here illegally. It's wrong and just not worth the risk. It just isn't.

And while the detention camps aren't exactly ideal, the conditions to do seem to be all right and if they really are keeping illegal immigrants in cages, I would really prefer if the kids weren't kept in them. The adults, yes. They committed the crime. They should be held responsible, not the kids. The kids didn't do anything. They were just dragged along for the ride.

I know that would just separate them again from their parents, and we'd be back at square-one with this thing, but it just feels wrong seeing them in there. We shouldn't punish them for what their parents did.