The US Healtcare system - AKA Hospitals are broke, no one does preventative care, and Insurance is asking for both kidneys and your firstborn

[ProgKing of the North]

I wouldn't mind Japan's system, but it would never work the US. If I recall correctly it's actually a crime there to abuse medical services, regardless of your income, you have to pay at least SOMETHING into either a private, government, or employment service, and their medically related torte laws aren't as idiotic as ours. This would never work in the US because there's nothing Tyrone loves more than free shit, going to the emergency room for a hangnail, and then suing the doctor because he decided to sell his prescription meds rather than actually using them.

I'd rather have a system that some people abuse than a system that fucks over people that genuinely need it and just can't afford it

 

[Y2K Baby]

I'd rather have a system that some people abuse than a system that fucks over people that genuinely need it and just can't afford it

Sounds like you're a nigger

 

[ProgKing of the North]

Sounds like you're a nigger

Worse, one of Carl of Swindon's fabled White Niggers

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Well sure, but other countries also have their own certification agencies, and somehow manage to offer medication at like 1% of the price it is in the US.

So I guess part of the issue is that each generic is it's own thing, separately patented, everyone doesn't just make the same generic following the same approved formula, so developing a generic version of a drug is almost as expensive as just inventing a new drug. Do I have that right?

It's much less expensive compared to developing a new drug because you can skip the three-phase clinical trial (you only need to do in vivo testing) but there's still a pretty big cost of entry to begin manufacturing a generic. What some pharmaceutical companies are doing now is manufacturing generics for drugs that are very rarely prescribed and jacking the price up to ludicrous levels. Nobody is going to compete because the sales volume is too low to really make jumping into that drug worth it for another manufacturer, so that's why you see generic drugs that are ridiculously expensive for little discernible reason.

As far as other countries having actually cheap drugs, it's because the government negotiates prices. In the US that's done by pharmaceutical benefit managers rather than the government, and PBMs are honestly in kind of a weird spot. They need to compete with other PBMs on price (or else your insurance company/employer switches to one that is able to get better deals) but they also need to make revenue, too. How a PBM works is extremely complicated but basically their revenue comes from them taking a cut of drug sales, so they need prices to still remain somewhat high in order to get more revenue. Plus PBMs operate mail-order pharmacies so that's another revenue source that benefits from high prices. The system is not working out well compared to what happens in other countries.

Well the problem really is on the consumers. In capitalism (or "Free Markets") consumers are supposed to avoid making purchases if they are over priced or make smart decisions to avoid leading Capitalism into being corporatism (or just make smart decisions in general). The problem not only shows that consumers are not being intelligent about purchases (See every year where people buy new Apple phones for instance whether they actually need them or not) and an over regulated system, and we have developed that main specific issue.

Well, it's also difficult for patients to shop around for different prescription drugs that may be cheaper than what they're on, so patients just get stuck. Doctors have absolutely no idea what you're going to pay for something or if your insurance will even cover it. If you have a really cool doctor you might be able to get him or her to write several scripts for similar drugs, so you can drag them down to the pharmacy and get whatever rings up cheapest. Doctors, obviously, are quite wary about doing this because some idiot is inevitably going to fill them all and wind up on 12 antidepressants at once.

 

[Y2K Baby]

Worse, one of Carl of Swindon's fabled White Niggers

You're Irish?

 

[mr.moon1488]

I'd rather have a system that some people abuse than a system that fucks over people that genuinely need it and just can't afford it

"some people abuse."

 

[ProgKing of the North]

"some people abuse."

View attachment 736224

A number of people that is greater than none but less than all. "Some". What would you have preferred I use?

And if you're trying to make it a race thing I will laugh.

 

[Y2K Baby]

A number of people that is greater than none but less than all. "Some". What would you have preferred I use?

And if you're trying to make it a race thing I will laugh.

Watch out, guys. He might laugh.

 

[mr.moon1488]

A number of people that is greater than none but less than all. "Some". What would you have preferred I use?

And if you're trying to make it a race thing I will laugh.

To the "some" question, "some" in regards to the US is too damn many. One of the main reasons health care got so expensive in the US, is people abusing the system. Even if the plaintiff loses a malpractice lawsuit, it still costs the hospital a small fortune normally. People going to the emergency room over stupid shit, means rather than needing a couple of ER nurses and a trauma surgeon on call, you instead need a gigantic cluster fuck of doctors triaging patients, which should have just secluded an appointment. There's no valid reason it shouldn't be a criminal offense if you knowingly, and willfully abuse medical services since this is both directly, and in-directly harmful to others.

"And if you're trying to make it a race thing I will laugh."
Assuming you live in an urban area, go to your local ER on a Friday, or Saturday night, and ask a doctor about the infamous "sumdude."

 

[ProgKing of the North]

and if you go to scattered out rural areas there's a lot of poor white rednecks probably scamming the system too, focusing on one race doing it is retarded

 

[mr.moon1488]

and if you go to scattered out rural areas there's a lot of poor white rednecks probably scamming the system too, focusing on one race doing it is exceptional

Yes... I'm sure if you live in an area with only one group of people, that one group of people will be the only ones doing something wrong. (It's almost like existence is a prerequisite of bad behavior) Outside of that, that's just a snide way of avoiding proportionality, which is entirely relevant in this context since there is a certain breaking point at which enough abusers can overwhelm the capabilities of the contributors. Pic related: an example of when you account for proportions.

 

[ProgKing of the North]

wow...the guy with 1488 in his username is autistically obsessed with race, color me shocked.

Yeah, yeah, I get it, blacks murder more proportionately (but prostitution and gambling? Lol, what next, smoking weed and underage drinking?), what does that have to do with abusing the healthcare system? If you've been shot you're not really abusing the system by going to the ER.

 

[mr.moon1488]

wow...the guy with 1488 in his username is autistically obsessed with race, color me shocked.

Yeah, yeah, I get it, blacks murder more proportionately (but prostitution and gambling? Lol, what next, smoking weed and underage drinking?), what does that have to do with abusing the healthcare system? If you've been shot you're not really abusing the system by going to the ER.

It has nothing to do with the healthcare system. It has everything to do with proportionality, which is extremely important when considering macro societal questions. As for the direct relevance to the healthcare system, I don't think there's an actual "ER abuse" statistic, but you'll notice that one group is disproportionately using Medicaid, and one group isn't. (e.g. Alabama State racial distribution 68.7% white, 26.5% black. State Medicaid usage 46% white, 44% black)
"wow...the guy with 1488 in his username is autistically obsessed with race, color me shocked."
Good job "catching me" I guess?

Medicaid Enrollment by Race/Ethnicity

The Kaiser Family Foundation website provides in-depth information on key health policy issues including Medicaid, Medicare, health reform, global health, HIV/AIDS, health insurance, the uninsured …

www.kff.org

 

[queue-anon]

Sure, it can be argued that other countries have dumb consumers as well, but those countries trade off the costs of medication for higher taxes, or higher priced goods which are offset when they import from other areas/countries.

Other countries have dumb consumers, but their health care systems generally don't pander to dumb health care consumers the way the U.S. does.

As an example, if you give birth to a braindead baby in the UK, the hospital is going to let the baby die as God/nature (take your pick) intended. They won't even let you take the braindead baby out of the hospital to send it to the U.S. where there are numerous clinics willing to pat your ass and tell you that braindead baby totally isn't dead.

Those systems are shitlordy about pretty much everything else too. If you go to the doctor with a twisted ankle, they'll dress it and send you home. In the U.S., they'll likely do an X-ray, which isn't necessary like 99 percent of the time, but they're trying to cover their asses legally and keep you from getting mad about blowing you off.

That's the good thing and the bad thing about nationalized health care, doctors go with the most likely scenario and solution, which is more affordable but is also callous to patients who are scared and in pain. This is why I think nationalized health care is likely not going to happen in the U.S., Americans want the best health care, no matter the cost, no matter if they can actually afford it. And this is true on both sides of the political spectrum, it's just that liberals are dumb enough to think that it's at all feasible to provide Cadillac care to all Americans.

 

[Basic Bleach]

The whole health insurance thing confuses the shit out of me. Aside from the fact it's somehow separate from dental and vision, neither of which counts as health somehow. I got health insurance (through work, because fuck letting the feds get another claw in me) to avoid being penalized for not needing it.

Turned out I needed it this year when a gland decided to go spastic and fuck my life up.

Now I'm getting avalanches of financial assistance offers from the hospital, they never did tell me who exactly to pay, there are numerous different parties charging me for shit...the bulk of the one ER visit isn't even the hospital, it's the ER staff, who only work at the place and not for it.

Goddamn, this is why I prefer to wait till I'm dying and drag myself to the doc in the box and just pay out of pocket. At least that hit on the chin is honest. Props to the docs here though for supporting going to get generics at walmart, and to the pharmacist there for pointing out half the stuff in the prescription was OTC and saving me money there. I'll take $4 of ibuprofen over the $40 same shit that's just marked up because it has the word prescription on it.

And don't get me started on the social security I'll never see a dime of thanks to all the millennials too socially anxious to leave their houses.

 

[mr.moon1488]

The whole health insurance thing confuses the shit out of me. Aside from the fact it's somehow separate from dental and vision, neither of which counts as health somehow. I got health insurance (through work, because fuck letting the feds get another claw in me) to avoid being penalized for not needing it.

Turned out I needed it this year when a gland decided to go spastic and fuck my life up.

Now I'm getting avalanches of financial assistance offers from the hospital, they never did tell me who exactly to pay, there are numerous different parties charging me for shit...the bulk of the one ER visit isn't even the hospital, it's the ER staff, who only work at the place and not for it.

Goddamn, this is why I prefer to wait till I'm dying and drag myself to the doc in the box and just pay out of pocket. At least that hit on the chin is honest. Props to the docs here though for supporting going to get generics at walmart, and to the pharmacist there for pointing out half the stuff in the prescription was OTC and saving me money there. I'll take $4 of ibuprofen over the $40 same shit that's just marked up because it has the word prescription on it.

And don't get me started on the social security I'll never see a dime of thanks to all the millennials too socially anxious to leave their houses.

Not exactly to your post, but another problem with the US health care system is that WAY too much shit here in the US is prescription only. Most notably, some very easy to administer antibiotics like Doxycycline.

 

[Basic Bleach]

Not exactly to your post, but another problem with the US health care system is that WAY too much shit here in the US is prescription only. Most notably, some very easy to administer antibiotics like Doxycycline.

I suspect it's prescription only because otherwise someone would figure out how to make meth out of it, and it'd be locked away anyways.

I do wish basic antibiotics were OTC, but I do understand some people can be allergic to them and just not know it. Liability and all that.

 

[mr.moon1488]

I suspect it's prescription only because otherwise someone would figure out how to make meth out of it, and it'd be locked away anyways.

I do wish basic antibiotics were OTC, but I do understand some people can be allergic to them and just not know it. Liability and all that.

Medication allergies are one thing I'd require to be tested during school were it up to me. Honestly though, this may sound radical, but were it up to me a lot of the current school curriculum especially during the high school years would be removed, and replaced with at least some medical training.

 

[queue-anon]

The whole health insurance thing confuses the shit out of me. Aside from the fact it's somehow separate from dental and vision, neither of which counts as health somehow. I got health insurance (through work, because fuck letting the feds get another claw in me) to avoid being penalized for not needing it.

Turned out I needed it this year when a gland decided to go spastic and fuck my life up.

Now I'm getting avalanches of financial assistance offers from the hospital, they never did tell me who exactly to pay, there are numerous different parties charging me for shit...the bulk of the one ER visit isn't even the hospital, it's the ER staff, who only work at the place and not for it.

Goddamn, this is why I prefer to wait till I'm dying and drag myself to the doc in the box and just pay out of pocket. At least that hit on the chin is honest. Props to the docs here though for supporting going to get generics at walmart, and to the pharmacist there for pointing out half the stuff in the prescription was OTC and saving me money there. I'll take $4 of ibuprofen over the $40 same shit that's just marked up because it has the word prescription on it.

And don't get me started on the social security I'll never see a dime of thanks to all the millennials too socially anxious to leave their houses.

The dental thing is especially ridiculous since you can die from dental problems; an infection from an infected tooth can spread to the brain. Things like gum disease can increase your risk of other illnesses, such as heart disease.

Insurance billing makes an already shitty system that much shittier. I have to worry about whatever health problem I have, whether my doctor will take it seriously, whether my insurance will cover the visit/tests/treatment, and whether I can afford whatever's gotten kicked to my coinsurance/deductible.

 

[Basic Bleach]

Medication allergies are one thing I'd require to be tested during school were it up to me. Honestly though, this may sound radical, but were it up to me a lot of the current school curriculum especially during the high school years would be removed, and replaced with at least some medical training.

Ah, but then who pays the bill for the test, the machines used to do the testing, the supplies, and the people trained to use them, and the people trained to do those tests?

There's another used-car-sized bill to ponder.

Basic first aid and preventative human maintenance get glossed over and show up for about five seconds in health classes, which I doubt are required anymore, and those mostly focus on STDs and safe sex anyway. You'd be more likely (in my day) to learn those skills from your parents or in girl/boyscouts (I did actually). Thing is, the rise of education and medicine as an industry promotes specialists of every kind now, so you can't just go to the neighborhood barber to have, say, a bone set or a tooth pulled, which may be a good thing.

I agree with earlier assessments that at this point the issue is largely that there are too many fingers in the cookie jar fishing for profit at every turn.