The Value of Hate

[Stan]

But doesn't Hate serve an evolutionary purpose? Isn't Hate a good thing, in many situations?

Yay another Kiwi Farms thread where we debate things you should have learned in Kindergarten.

No, hate isn’t a good thing. Hate is the emotion that screams “one of my people is worth ten of yours!” Hate doesn’t exact Justice an eye for an eye, but it does create vendetta and blood feuds that can go on for generations without resolution. Hate motivates prejudice, fuels pogroms and witch hunts and inquisitions. The cost of hate in terms of lost human productivity and potential progress is incalculable. If not for hate we could save trillions of dollars on military equipment and nuclear bombs.

Hate is why our world is as dysfunctional as it is. It’s why a third of mankind is starving while a third of America is sick from overeating. If it were possible for us to not luxuriate in hatred, as several of you here present do, then the world would no longer be a competition of nations but a collaboration for all humankind.

Hell, even good trolling doesn’t come from hate. The best CWC trolls didn’t hate Chris Chan, but A-log sure did. (A-log is also a good example of how hate that you send out comes around back to you.)

To paraphrase a particularly hateful and self-important user here: hate keeps you standing in the gutter, looking to the ground instead of to the stars. And I do mean that literally; if mankind wasn’t obsessively looking over its shoulder in fear and seeking targets to exact it’s hatred upon we would have time and resources to put towards productive things, like colonizing the Moon.

We should strive for forgiveness instead of relishing hate.

 

[Divine right to rule]

Of course hate has value. It just means strong dislike for something.
In the religious sense, it is good to hate sin and vice. Should you not hate bad things?

There are a group of of those who bitch about hate that just want the death of standards, and that would make hate obsolete. "Just be indifferent to everything bro, just consume, don't judge and do what you are told'

The ones using it as a rhetorical weapon are of course completely disengenious. They use it to discredit critics of the very leftist Zeitgeist by not actually addressing any points of the critics and instead project an emotion on them that is supposed to make their opinion and their person completely unpalatable.
It is highly hypocritical on many levels of course, because the politicians, idealogues and journalists that use it hate white conservatives so much that they would like to put them in gulags.

Another very hypocritical aspect is that the usage is racist. It is only used for immigration critics, even though the immigrants are likely to be much more conservative than the immigration critics are.
Just look at the party head of the "far right" afd in Germany, a lesbian in an interracial relationship. Arab and African migrants would be repulsed by such an union, but she is the one the media calls hateful.

It is pure emotion-bases propaganda, designed to fuck with your head. Don't even try to engage it in good faith.

 

[Magicicada_septendecula]

I believe hate is a natural human emotion rooted in evolution. You hate things that are harmful to yourself and people or things you love. In a civil society, it should not be encouraged, but this zeal to completely remove it completely is misplaced.
That said, I somewhat agree with @Mothra1988 that hatred can be projection of something you hate about yourself. Some of the biggest lolcows are the A-logs who seethe over people who are not too different from them.

 

[Overly Serious]

No, hate isn’t a good thing. Hate is the emotion that screams “one of my people is worth ten of yours!” Hate doesn’t exact Justice an eye for an eye, but it does create vendetta and blood feuds that can go on for generations without resolution. Hate motivates prejudice, fuels pogroms and witch hunts and inquisitions. The cost of hate in terms of lost human productivity and potential progress is incalculable. If not for hate we could save trillions of dollars on military equipment and nuclear bombs.

It isn't Hate which starts wars. Not anymore. Wars are too abstract, people too faceless. Do you think the average American hates the average Iraqi? Or Afghani? Hate is consuming, hate burns you up inside, hate seizes control of your brain and says "LOOK AT THIS! HOW CAN YOU BEAR IT?". I doubt the average American thought about the average Iraqi or Afghani once per month all the time that wars were being prosecuted by their nation against these people. Wars are brought about by the powerful and it's not hatred which drives them but avarice, greed, pride. A lust for power. What does Donald Rumsfield or George Bush have to hate the people of these countries for? Do you think Obama hated the people he bombed? These people never touched them, never harmed them, could never get in a hundred miles of doing so. But they had what someone else wanted. Or they didn't know their place. Even with Ukraine vs. Russia do you think it's hatred that causes the USA to funnel tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons for Western Ukranians to use against the Eastern ones and Russians? No, they give it because they are investing and because they make money through replacing weapons and because they are proud and can't brook a rival. And maybe, just maybe, one or two do it because they believe in defending the country.

But what you ask about the people? Isn't hatred what is used to whip them up and make them accept funding all these wars and that they are taught to hate the foreigners through media and propaganda? It is not. Most Americans couldn't muster a flush to the face or to punch their desk when they hear about some 'atrocity'. No, it's not hatred. It's apathy. Apathy to what their leaders do. It's cowardice. Afraid to speak out or if they speak out to do anything more that would actually mean challenging authority. So they let billions of their dollars be taken from them and spent on war. It's Pride and ego. Ego when they do nothing to participate but they'll tweet how much they support some group and stick flags in the profile to say 'look at me - I'm one of the good'.

Hate. Hate is a fist around your heart that squeezes you till you can't breathe unless you let it out and turn it on the object of your wrath. Or you somehow find some grace that sets you free of it. Hate is personal and consuming.

War hasn't been personal for a long time. Not for those who start them.

 

[Stan]

Of course hate has value. It just means strong dislike for something.
In the religious sense, it is good to hate sin and vice. Should you not hate bad things?

Since God is omnipotent and the Creator of all things, there is really no reason to 'hate' sin, vice, the Devil, or anything else.

It is said that the most powerful Sages of Israel once gathered at the Second Temple and asked God to free the world of vice.
God said "are you sure you want me to do that?"
The Sages said yes, definitely.
The following day, none of the chickens in Israel laid eggs. The "sinful" urge of sex was required for livestock and plants to procreate.
The Sages begged God to reverse the change, and he did.

You can't have life without the vice of lust. You can't have prosperity without the sin of greed, can't have bravery without pride etc.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

Since God is omnipotent and the Creator of all things, there is really no reason to 'hate' sin, vice, the Devil, or anything else.

It is said that the most powerful Sages of Israel once gathered at the Second Temple and asked God to free the world of vice.
God said "are you sure you want me to do that?"
The Sages said yes, definitely.
The following day, none of the chickens in Israel laid eggs. The "sinful" urge of sex was required for livestock and plants to procreate.
The Sages begged God to reverse the change, and he did.

You can't have life without the vice of lust. You can't have prosperity without the sin of greed, can't have bravery without pride etc.

"Hate evil, and love good, and establish justice in the gate; it may be that the LORD, the God of hosts, will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph." – Amos 5:15

Don't you work at a church you dumb cunt

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

It's kinda ridiculous saying "hate is good/bad" it's just a normal human emotion that people will have irregardless what they think about it. The only issue nowadays that people can't be honest about it, "when it's your group you are hateful, when it's my group it's us being critical".

 

[Freshly Baked Socks]

Niggas be like I love to hatecha.

An whitey is still all "cant we juss colonize the moon?"

What a nerd.

 

[Stan]

"Hate evil, and love good, and establish justice in the gate; it may be that the LORD, the God of hosts, will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph." – Amos 5:15

Don't you work at a church you dumb cunt

I sure do. Here's more of what the Bible has to say about hate:

Psalm 37:8
Refrain from anger, and forsake wrath! Fret not yourself; it tends only to evil.

Leviticus 19:17-18
You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Romans 12:19
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

Ephesians 4:31-32
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

On the balance the Bible advocates forgiveness over seething with hatred. See: The story of Joseph and his brothers, the parable of the Unforgiving Steward.

You're welcome to come to my church any time, btw. We livestream the services so you can watch remotely.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

I sure do. Here's more of what the Bible has to say about hate:






On the balance the Bible advocates forgiveness over seething with hatred. See: The story of Joseph and his brothers, the parable of the Unforgiving Steward.

You're welcome to come to my church any time, btw. We livestream the services and everything.

G-d through Amos commands Jews and Christians to hate evil. G-d wouldn't command us to do something evil, so hating is fine. You brought up verses about anger and forgiveness. Stay on topic, which is hate.

Funny you brought up Matthew 5:22. I quoted that verse to you but it was lost in the rollback. I was defending Caroline Farrow from you calling her a fool and hateful.

 

[Stan]

G-d through Amos commands Jews and Christians to hate evil. G-d wouldn't command us to do something evil, so hating is fine. You brought up verses about anger and forgiveness. Stay on topic, which is hate.

Old Testament vs. New Testament. Jesus would not advocate hate, because man is a very poor judge of what is "evil". For example, you're a flaming racist. You think black people are "evil". Not everyone would agree with that assessment; I certainly do not.

Funny you brought up Matthew 5:22. I quoted that verse to you but it was lost in the rollback. I was defending Caroline Farrow from you calling her a fool and hateful.

I wouldn't have seen it. But I don't believe I called Ms. Farrow a fool. I believe I called her a shit-stirrer. I did say Catholicism is stupid, because it is. And I said that Catholic women live in the shadow of Catholic men; which Farrow does.

Spoiler

She has five kids and acts as the organist at her husband's church (he's a special-exception Catholic priest who gets to stay married because he used to be Anglican.) If she isn't busy with that she's probably busy with all the other stuff pastoral spouses can get roped into, like giving other women advice about things they're embarrassed to discuss with a man. I'm not even sure how she has time to stir the shit about TRAs but there you go.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

Old Testament vs. New Testament. Jesus would not advocate hate, because man is a very poor judge of what is "evil".

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” Jesus's own words. And humans are a poor judge of evil, because the heart is desperately deceitful and wicked. Thus we are to judge evil by the divine revelation, the Scriptures. And G-d commands to hate evil AGAIN in Romans 12:9 "Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good." Dont you work in a church you dumb cunt?

For example, you're a flaming racist. You think black people are "evil". Not everyone would agree with that assessment; I certainly do not.

I don't think they're evil. I think they're dumb and violent, and I don't want to live around them because I read and comprehend crime statistics. You're the one who supports genocide by forcing multiple peoples to integrate against their will

I wouldn't have seen it. But I don't believe I called Ms. Farrow a fool. I believe I called her a shit-stirrer. I did say Catholicism is stupid, because it is. And I said that Catholic women live in the shadow of Catholic men; which Farrow does.

Spoiler

She has five kids and acts as the organist at her husband's church (he's a special-exception Catholic priest who gets to stay married because he used to be Anglican.) If she isn't busy with that she's probably busy with all the other stuff pastoral spouses can get roped into, like giving other women advice about things they're embarrassed to discuss with a man. I'm not even sure how she has time to stir the shit about TRAs but there you go.

Be ready to answer for your slander before G-d. You don't read your Bible, you just set it on the ground then stand on it as your progressive soapbox.

 

[Norbert the Tiger]

There is a term for this but I cannot remember it. Essentially meaning arises from contrast and differences, you cannot show a movie in a theatre without dark, cannot have day without night etc. So it is with love or other supposed positive emotions and hate.
If something harms or threatens what you love and value, the love or preference for that thing becomes meaningless without hatred, strong aversion, etc.
I disagree with Henry Rollins about most things but I still respect him despite being half Jewish. He has written and spoken about how if you do not hate you are just not alive, just do not feel passionate about things. Hatred can also be a motivating factor, When lifting waits it is often helpful to think about things that piss you off, or offend you, or that you think should be destroyed. If that anger and hatred can be channeled and harnessed in a constructive manner, it is very powerful.
The song Power Has a Fragrance by Death in June is interesting in how it links the Will to Power and Hatred conceptually.

 

[Stan]

humans are a poor judge of evil, because the heart is desperately deceitful and wicked

This is exactly what I've been telling you. Human beings are terrible at knowing good from evil, so even if you try to only hate what is evil, you will still end up on a wild goosechase.

Dont you work in a church you dumb cunt?

Does God call you to call me that? Truly a theological tour de force.

Be ready to answer for your slander before G-d. You don't read your Bible, you just set it on the ground then stand on it as your progressive soapbox.

That is projection on your part. I read my Bible and attend church nearly every Sunday; and these are the messages that I have learned from that practice.

Have you ever been to a church and found that everyone there was seething in hatred? Was the preacher advocating for hatred from the pulpit? Was the church's projects in the community ones that spread hatred? Churches (all the ones I've ever been to, anyway) are not like that. They preach peace, not hatred.

Anyway, as for me standing before God: I fear not for my heart, but for yours. Don't get all worked up hating things, because it's a waste of effort. You clearly don't know the difference between good and evil, so it would be easier to embrace love, not hate, and to love your neighbor as yourself. That is the whole of the law.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

This is exactly what I've been telling you. Human beings are terrible at knowing good from evil, so even if you try to only hate what is evil, you will still end up on a wild goosechase.

"Dont say it is in heaven,, we can't fulfill it, for its near and it is not too difficult for you". And how else do we dispense justice if we can't possibly know evil.

Does God call you to call me that? Truly a theological tour de force.

Truth is an absolute defense. You are dumb and you are a cunt. You're the one telling Farrow to put the interests of mutilated men in dresses above women, or else she's hateful. You'll answer for that.

That is projection on your part. I read my Bible and attend church nearly every Sunday; and these are the messages that I have learned from that practice.

Not everyone who cries Lord Lord will get in. "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity."

Have you ever been to a church and found that everyone there was seething in hatred? Was the preacher advocating for hatred from the pulpit? Was the church's projects in the community ones that spread hatred? Churches (all the ones I've ever been to, anyway) are not like that. They preach peace, not hatred.

So your theology is built on appeal to majority, and your conclusion is to deny Amos 5:15 and Romans 12:9. “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many." I'll let you contradict Amos, Paul, and G-d behind them both from a safe distance.

Anyway, as for me standing before God: I fear not for my heart, but for yours. Don't get all worked up hating things, because it's a waste of effort. You clearly don't know the difference between good and evil, so it would be easier to embrace love, not hate, and to love your neighbor as yourself. That is the whole of the law.

Hate the sin not the sinner has been a phrase for decades. You can hate evil while loving people. You can and should even hate certain people, like Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty or Hitler.

By your pop culture sophisms, you've negated a commandment of G-d. Jesus calls you least in the kingdom of heaven:
"Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19

 

[Stan]

"Dont say it is in heaven,, we can't fulfill it, for its near and it is not too difficult for you". And how else do we dispense justice if we can't possibly know evil.

We dispense earthly justice. But mankind does not know the will of God, and if we followed your directions about what is hateful, we'd have trouble getting through the day for all the stuff that would piss us off.

Truth is an absolute defense. You are dumb and you are a cunt. You're the one telling Farrow to put the interests of mutilated men in dresses above women, or else she's hateful. You'll answer for that.

I said no such thing. In fact I said that I don't have to like Farrow to dislike TRAs; the two are independent of one another. But honestly, my dislike of TRAs is probably pretty unchristian of me. I will cop to that.

As for "absolute truth" about me: OK, feel free to think that. You're incorrect, but I won't stop you from repeatedly making the mistake of attacking me ad hominem.

Not everyone who cries Lord Lord will get in. "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity."
So your theology is built on appeal to majority, and your conclusion is to deny Amos 5:15 and Romans 12:9. “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many." I'll let you contradict Amos, Paul, and G-d behind them both from a safe distance.
Hate the sin not the sinner has been a phrase for decades. You can hate evil while loving people. You can and should even hate certain people, like Pol Pot, the Kim dynasty or Hitler.

Does it actually do any good for me to hate people who are long dead?
And which church do you go to, that preaches a doctrine of "nobody gets into Heaven unless you seethe and hate what I tell you to hate?" Or any preacher really who wants you to ardently *hate* things? I have never been to such a congregation, and I've seen my fair share of them.

By your pop culture sophisms, you've negated a commandment of G-d. Jesus calls you least in the kingdom of heaven:
"Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19

By that logic, you probably violated the Law half a hundred times today before posting this. Maybe you ate unkosher food, or mixed meat and milk, or didn't say your morning prayers, or didn't wash your hands after using the toilet. (all of these are the law of the Torah.) But Jesus doesn't call us to slavishly follow the Hebrew Law. As you well know, Gentiles and Jews alike are forgiven and loved in Christ.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

Paul said to hate what is evil. Romans 12.

It's clear you believe evil can be understood by humanity, because you go around telling people what they're doing is evil. Don't tell me you don't hate the evils of racism and sexism. You talk about them all the time.

Personal failures to keep the Law is not the same as thinking a commandment is stupid, immoral and un-modern and thus should be thrown out.

 

[I (Don't) Have A Gun]

I thought it was already an accepted fact back in the 90s that hate is cool?

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate.

 

[HorridHenry]

Abolishing hate is one hundred percent a humiliation ritual.

Hate is important. Recognizing our discomfort, that our boundaries are pushed, drives so much of innovation. Fundamentally hate, fear, and disgust allow us to recognize a problem and be motivated enough to fix it. Sometimes people can be a problem.

Abolishing the notion of hate makes us docile.