The Windows OS Thread - Formerly THE OS for gamers and normies, now sadly ruined by Pajeets

  • 684 games on this list don't work with Wine, that's a full 60% of the 1,136 games that use anti-cheat:
  • On WineDB, there are 16,450 applications. 3,187 apps have a "Bronze" rating, meaning they have significant outstanding bugs, and 5,326 work with a "garbage" rating, meaning they aren't usable. That's nearly half the total applications in the DB.
Anyone who claims Wine is better at running Windows apps than Windows is simply making things up.
It's a bit worse if you consiter ProtonDB, where 26,991 games were community tested, 7,132 were "Deck Verified" (Read: Valve actually worked a tiny bit to preconfigure it for you, including premade shader caches taken from competent people who don't work at Valve.) and a further 16,267 are lumpped in as "Verified or Playable" and in the top 1000, 46% are in the gold Metal (The ProtonDB equivelent of the WineDB rating system) which is discribed as "runs perfectly with some tweaks", which amounts to having to jump Proton versions or tweak some shit just to fix a problem that isn't a problem on Windows or even just make it work in the first place.


And if you sorted it by the entire Steam Catalog, only 11% of it can be deemed remotely playable, with remaining 1% being in the Bronze or "Borked" (Garbage), so a substantial portion of what you can get on Steam is in a limbo state where you have to pray it works without much tweaking needed.
 
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I'm also skeptical of Wine's supposed successes. Every time I tried to run a game there for the sport of it, it was a dumpster fire. If I get it to run, which I most likely won't at all, it won't have sound, or the resolution will be fucked, or...something.
 
The problem with the Linux user is that the Linux user is at a constant fight with Windows. To him, Linux always has to be better than Windows. And when all the facts point that Linux isn't better than Windows, he has to lie by omission and hyperfixate on one aspect of Linux that's better than Windows, while at the same time avoiding mentioning any issues that Linux has that Windows doesn't, or any ways where the Windows issue he is trying to point out becomes a non-issue. And when all else fails, he will resort to insults and mockery, or in case of this site, using the Dumb/MATI/Autistic/Lunacy reactions once he can no longer hold his argument.

In case of Wine having better backwards compatibility than Windows, that is true. However, the Linux user also suffers from the Dunning-Kruger syndrome where he will point this out but will fail to understand why that is. So let's dissect this.

Wine does fare better in supporting Windows software from the 3.11/9x era than modern Windows. However, this boils down to two main issues: DirectDraw being broken in Windows and 64-bit Windows lacking Virtual DOS Machine, or VDM.

In case of DirectDraw, there are a few solutions available, mainly DxWrapper, a simple DLL wrapper which aims to fix any and all DirectDraw related compatibility issues. All it takes to install it under Windows is copying it to the installation folder of the game you want to fix, unlike Wine where any DLL substitution like this would require configuring Wine prefixes. Then the game's DDraw calls go through the wrapper which aims to fix compatibility issues, and it's also highly configurable. That solves plenty of issues Windows software has under Windows that Wine only fixes because of it's most mature part of the codebase being the one targeting legacy software.

Of course, the Linux user will omit the fact that Wine struggles with a lot of modern software as that would make Linux look worse than Windows and he can't let that happen so he will hyperfixate on how much better it fares with legacy software, and if confronted about software like the Adobe suite, he will scoff and try to suggest that you don't actually need to run this software and that you should use this or that alternative, as he always has to be right and he has to make it seem like Linux is better than Windows even if it makes him look like a condescending fool.

Virtual DOS Machine. This is a component that was present in Windows NT since the first versions that allowed you to run MS-DOS software as well as Win16 software under the new OS architecture. It's what allowed you to play old MS-DOS and Windows 3.11 games under Windows XP. When Microsoft started moving towards 64-bit, while WoW64 was made and to this day it's practically flawless which is why you don't notice anything not working when using 64-bit only Windows 11 or Windows 10, they did drop the plans to port VDM over, leaving the support for 16-bit Windows software only working under 32-bit only Windows, and since practically everyone moved to 64-bit Windows this led to 16-bit software being broken. But here's the irony: even though leaked builds of Microsoft's 64-bit VDM exist, the best way to bring back this functionality is using WineVDM, a port of Wine's VDM that works under Windows, and it works perfectly fine.

Of course, the Linux user isn't aware of it existing, and if he is he doesn't want to mention it, as it's not only disproving the idea that there is no way to run 16-bit software on Windows, it hurts his ego when the solution to running 16-bit software on Windows is a port of the open source Linux project that is Wine. Even though some Wine software like Wine's Wordpad will work just fine natively under Windows due to the nature of Wine, which is being a Win32 compatibility layer.

In the same vein, DXVK, which is utilized by Proton, which itself is a fork of Wine, the secret sauce leading to Linux gaming becoming viable, but not due to the Linux community actually coming together and working on code, but rather a corporation that is Valve using Linux as a means to secure their financial independency from Microsoft, which they begrudgingly tout around as a great victory of Linux when in reality Linux, as in the Linux community, would never accomplish this in a million years, is a set of native Win32/Win64 binaries that work perfectly fine under Windows. Many of DXVK's magical improvements that are meant to show the superiority of Linux gaming, like per-game fixes for badly broken DirectX 9 games like GTA IV or The Sims 2, as well as better frame pacing and lower input lag, can now be enjoyed under Windows due to the very nature of the efforts to make Linux run Windows games. It's all aiming to recreate the Windows NT environment under the Linux kernel, and most, if not all methods of accomplishing this compatibility relies on Windows NT architecture rather than the Linux one.

Now I know that I may be strawmanning a bit, but let's be honest, everyone has heard the same deflections and defenses so it's not like it's coming out of nowhere. The Linux user may say that all of this is insane to do to just have Windows run software that was meant for it, but let's be honest: is it as "plug and play" under Linux as it should be? No. If your distro of choice wasn't preconfigured to be this plug and play, you will have to configure it manually. In terms of "out-of-the-box ease of use" Linux fails from the get-go as it can't run Windows software to begin with, and to treat Windows with this double standard where it's "cheating" in this "competition" where you have to install third party software under Windows to reach the same level of compatibility is simply childish. And while another argument which is "Microsoft shouldn't have this problem to begin with as Windows is their product they solely develop" is fair, it is nonsensical to bring up when we're comparing Windows to Linux, or more specifically desktop Linux, an operating system utilizing a kernel that is a result of joint collaboration of many corporations including Microsoft, which then gets a multitude of packages attached around it to create a desktop OS, and then utilizes software made by Valve to make it able run Windows software. Another deflection that may be used is the existence of Lutris, but all that Lutris does is that it automatically applies any and all game tweaks that would require manual step-by-step installation under Windows while following PC Gaming Wiki. The only point for Linux here is that it makes it more convenient, but it is rarely brought up as such. Usually it is brought up to make it seem like it is impossible to have these old games run well natively under Windows, even though all the tricks Lutris applies are, again, within the Windows architecture, not the Linux one, meaning one could mirror Lutris under Windows to have the same benefits.

These types of deflections tend to come when you've proven the point that Windows does have the backwards compatibility the Linux users claims it doesn't, but due to you having to do manual installation of third party packages to accomplish it somehow makes your argument invalid, even though it's perfectly okay for Linux to mandate this just to be able to run Windows software. This sort of hypocrisy is prevalent in Linux user's mind. The hoops he has to go through cannot be applied to Windows, which is only a rule in his mind as these hoops lead to parity between Linux and Windows, which then only leaves him with all the issues Linux has that Windows doesn't. Issues such as the X/Wayland debacle, the systemd debacle, the lack of standardization which is a must for any operating system to reach maturity so that software can be easily developed for it, everything he simply cannot deflect. The issues he became accustomed to as they've became a part of his personality, however, issues that are directly contradicting his main goal of showing Linux's superiority to Windows, which is why he has to constantly hyperfixate on benign and illogical issues like the Windows backwards compatibility, which as I described can be achieved under Windows. When there is no way to win, keep moving the goalpost and narrowing the scope of the discussion so that you look right and so that Linux looks better than Windows. This is the eternal struggle of a man who turned a tool, a mean to an end, into an ideology bordering on religion.



Now the director's cut:
WineVDM fixes the lack of 16-bit Windows software compatibility.
Wrappers like DxWrapper fix old game compatibility where usually anything older than DirectX 9 has issues.
Linux's DXVK is a set of native Win32/Win64 binaries that can be used under Windows to fix issues with DirectX 9 games.
DOSBox-X can be used to run MS-DOS software.
86Box can be used to emulate a legacy PC to ensure maximum compatibility.
PC Gaming Wiki contains any and all info on how to make older games run well under modern Windows.

Any and all compatibility issues under Windows are fixable if you don't suffer from learned helplessness and can look up solutions to your problems. Just because Microsoft fucked it up bit by bit even before Nadella doesn't mean that it's so fucked it cannot be fixed, and the methods to fix it are piss fucking easy.
Linux will forever be inferior to Windows if you want to treat it as a replacement for Windows and Linux users will forever be insufferable cunts that will never realize how insufferable they are. Think millions of Jason Halls. That's Linux users.
 
Meanwhile in our universe

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Jason doesn't even know how Windows works. I do, so I have no issues.
You know who else doesn't know how Windows works but has the most to say about it?
average arch user.jpg
Linux users. They're much like Jason. Don't know shit about fuck but have the most to say.
 
Linux users. They're much like Jason. Don't know shit about fuck but have the most to say.
Most Linux users aren't the weirdos who participate in transvestite reddit communities to do little other than dick around with their setup and post screenshots. They're 40 something year old programmers and sysadmins who got used to dealing with Linux from their job and decided it's just better for their personal use too.

BTW I don't know why you'd think comparing anything to Windows is some grave sin.
 
Most Linux users aren't the weirdos who participate in transvestite reddit communities to do little other than dick around with their setup and post screenshots.
You know that these are the types I'm talking about because these are the types that are vocal about Linux online. The 40-something year old programmers is just a comfortable deflection that holds no merit to this discussion.
BTW I don't know why you'd think comparing anything to Windows is some grave sin.
I don't think that, you think that, because you misinterpreted what I was saying. Because you're the Linux user I was talking about.
 
Most Linux users aren't the weirdos who participate in transvestite reddit communities
Bringing up trannies and their communities in a Linux/Windows slapfight is like grabbing one of those cartoon shotguns with a U-shaped barrel.

average arch user.jpg
Linux users. They're much like Jason.
Is this some ancient form of metaposting or do you actually not realize you're speaking exactly like Jason (who is a Windows user btw) does? :story: Literally down to the "arch virgin" meme that was in the video wrt to your image. I thought you invoked him ironically.
 
Is this some ancient form of metaposting or do you actually not realize you're speaking exactly like Jason (who is a Windows user btw) does? :story: Literally down to the "arch virgin" meme that was in the video wrt to your image. I thought you invoked him ironically.
So, now you're shifting the discussion from backwards compatibility of Windows software under Windows vs Linux to me saying "Linux users are like Jason Hall" and posting a meme. Basically the laziest deflection when you can't discuss the actual technical topic, which I guess I should've predicted.

Anything just to look like you're in the right. Just like the Linux user I was talking about. Anyways, I'm done discussing this further if it had to devolve into talking about me this fucking fast for you to look like you're winning. Fucking pathetic.
 
So, now you're shifting the discussion from backwards compatibility
First of all, I wasn't even discussing backwards compatibility with you at all, so whatever meme video I post isn't a "shift in discussion with you".

me saying "Linux users are like Jason Hall" and posting a meme
Yeah. Jason "Maldavius Figtree" is a Windows user, so I thought it's extremely hilarious and ironic for you to invoke his name like this in particular. I sincerely thought you were making a joke by continuing to emulate the things he says almost exactly, so to find that you were doing so unwittingly is crazy and even more hilarious.

talking about me this fucking fast for you to look like you're winning. Fucking pathetic.
Aha, yeah. I wasn't even debating with you and I don't care about "winning" because I'm not in a debate on any topic with you. You're so unhinged and MATI. You're basically toxic, unfunny and shit in almost every thread I've seen you participate in, and I say this with no passion whatsoever.
 
So, now you're shifting the discussion from backwards compatibility of Windows software under Windows vs Linux to me saying "Linux users are like Jason Hall" and posting a meme. Basically the laziest deflection when you can't discuss the actual technical topic, which I guess I should've predicted.

Anything just to look like you're in the right. Just like the Linux user I was talking about. Anyways, I'm done discussing this further if it had to devolve into talking about me this fucking fast for you to look like you're winning. Fucking pathetic.
Nullwasright.jpg
 
Wine does fare better in supporting Windows software from the 3.11/9x era than modern Windows. However, this boils down to two main issues: DirectDraw being broken in Windows and 64-bit Windows lacking Virtual DOS Machine, or VDM.

But there are tons of old Windows applications from that era that don't work right in Wine for various other reasons. That's why I don't find any broad claims about Wine's backward compatibility really plausible. WineHQ is full of software from the 90s and early 00s that's broken in Wine.

but let's be honest: is it as "plug and play" under Linux as it should be? No.

This is what it comes down. Linux doesn't run any 64-bit Windows, 32-bit Windows, or DOS software natively at all. Using 3rd-party emulators and compatibility layers, you can get a fair chunk of it working...but as you pointed out, if that's the bar, Windows clears that bar much more cleanly than Linux. Out of the box, most 32-bit and all 64-bit Windows software Just Werks(tm), and 3rd-party emulators & compatibility layers cover most of the rest of it pretty cleanly, and in most cases much more cleanly than Wine.


You know who else doesn't know how Windows works but has the most to say about it?

Most Linux evangelists don't know much about Linux, computers, or Windows. There's a basic level of technological ignorance you need to treat an operating system like an extension of your personality.

Most Linux users aren't the weirdos who participate in transvestite reddit communities to do little other than dick around with their setup and post screenshots. They're 40 something year old programmers and sysadmins
Yeah, but guys like me don't tell people that switching to Linux will fix people's frustration with having to update their operating system regularly.
 
Of course, the Linux user will omit the fact that Wine struggles with a lot of modern software as that would make Linux look worse than Windows and he can't let that happen so he will hyperfixate on how much better it fares with legacy software, and if confronted about software like the Adobe suite, he will scoff and try to suggest that you don't actually need to run this software and that you should use this or that alternative, as he always has to be right and he has to make it seem like Linux is better than Windows even if it makes him look like a condescending fool.
You forgot to mention that they also behave the same way with regards to hardware, as proven by the deranged reactions to my posts in the Linux thread.
 
Anything Java on Linux is awful
True. But I feel that about Java on anything.

Most Linux users aren't the weirdos who participate in transvestite reddit communities to do little other than dick around with their setup and post screenshots. They're 40 something year old programmers and sysadmins who got used to dealing with Linux from their job and decided it's just better for their personal use too.
Ehhhh, I don't know about that. I actually started out on UNIX and naturally progressed to Linux. I adopted Windows late on for home use. I'm almost the archetypal of example of professional experience bleeding into personal use and even I feel you need a level of wilful obstinacy in this day and age to use Linux for your primary home use. That's assuming you do anything meaningful with a home system and don't just veg out with a chrome tablet or game console. If we're talking spinning up Rasberry Pi or some home NAS for your movies, sure - that doesn't require an ideological bent, that really is just using the tools you're familiar with and work well. But sitting there doing your accounts or family photos or general life - the segment of people using that for Linux just because it's convenient is pretty small. I think most doing that get some kind of kick out of identifying as Linux users. I've done my time with Wine and Xorg configs and figuring out how to make my Debian install work when it doesn't have the RealTek driver out of the box and I have to splice it into my install media from another computer...

Most Linux evangelists don't know much about Linux, computers, or Windows. There's a basic level of technological ignorance you need to treat an operating system like an extension of your personality.
Case in point, that time I naively started writing a small comparison of Bash and Powershell in the Linux thread because I genuinely thought people would be interested. It would be nice to think that KiwiFarmer Linux users wouldn't conform to the stereotype but I still got the sort of person you're talking about. Most Windows "evangelists" (such as I am) tend not to have as much familiarity with Linux as I do. My Bash is rusty as Hell but I was having to correct people's own Bash examples they were using against me.

Love Windows,
Love Me Powershell,
Hate Microsoft. Simple as...

At this point this thread should just be locked. Practically zero on-topic discussion ever happens here.
I mean, I was helping someone with their start-up scripts here the other day. (Never got any thanks from them...)
 
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