I have been awakened from the throes of midnight depression to... this.
It's been almost a month, Newt. More than a month, in fact. But you know what? I'll humor you. I'll put up with this because I've got some venting to do later and this is one more thing to vent about.
Venting? That's how you put it? Dude, I didn't
demand that you storm on in here and reply - hell, I wasn't even asking for you specifically - I was just using your previous comment as an
example of the kind of critique I'd like to see, because you looked like you actually gave a shit and wanted to help instead of tearing me down like everyone else, and I was hoping that others would follow in your example. Don't feel like you should reply to my comments just because you
have to, but because you
want to. If you don't want to, then... Cool! Just get on with other, more important stuff.
But since you decided to reply anyway, I'm grateful that you took the time to analyse my work, and I'm interested to see what feedback you've offered.
The names. I don't know if you're going for an international gumbo here or not, but you're probably gonna confuse quite a few little kids with names like Róża Rudowska. If you're gonna stick to it, or plan on making their foreign origins (including Adele's) a plot point, try anglicanizing the names a bit to better relate to your audience: Rosa, maybe name Cameron 'Cameron Keyes' or something similarly common. You're marketing something to small children. Make it something you can understand. Most kids won't even care about last names unless you plan on introducing the characters' parents.
Again, this is actually pretty well thought out, and
much better than simply throwing around useless insults that bounce off like rubber. I get what you're saying - kids obviously aren't as developed, mentally, as adults, so they might have trouble pronouncing names. However, I feel if we actually respect kids' intelligence and introduce them to foreign names at an appropriate age (say, 8-10-ish), when they've pretty much got the hang of their own language, then they might actually be
slightly better with foreign languages than the previous generation.
And keep in mind, I wrote in the pitch bible that I'm aiming for 8-14-year-olds. This isn't a preschool show where even the simplest concepts have to be spelled out slowly and clearly; it's for older kids who at least have a
basic (if childish) grasp of the world at large.
I was thinking, maybe a lot of the characters would pronounce Róża's last name as "rud-AO-ska" instead of the correct "roo-DOF-ska", as would be expected in an English-speaking setting. And similarly, they'll probably pronounce her first name as simply Rosa, as opposed to "roo-zha", because... again, it's just how people in the English-speaking world pronounce it. Meanwhile, Adele calls her Rozy - pronounced as you'd think she would - based on the genitive form of her name. (Remember that Adele speaks German as a second language, so she gets the whole "nominative/genitive/dative/accusative" thing, even if she doesn't necessarily know the names of those cases.)
Also, on
Monsters, Inc., Mike's last name is Wazowski, and most kids don't have trouble pronouncing it (albeit the anglicised pronunciation) as far as I know, so they probably shouldn't have too much trouble with "Rudowska".
Autists are not nearly as disparaged in the music industry as you seem to think they are. I'm a regular in the jazz scene in South Louisiana- while I'm not a musician, I know plenty of them, and plenty of them are autistic individuals who simply excel at music. Sometimes, they're stereotyped in that way: "oh, of course the autist is a savant with music" but in reality they work just as hard as everyone else. If you're going to write about an autistic kid, try writing about stuff an autistic kid will actually face, like parents occasionally being frustrated with their condition, or being treated differently by their classmates because they're in the 'special needs' group or something. IDK if you have special ed classes in Australia. Personally, hope you don't.
Again, this is how her father
thinks she'll be treated in the music industry, not necessarily how she'll actually be treated. Adele herself is completely unaware she's autistic at this point in the story, so she doesn't even have any expectations on how she'll be treated.
Now, unfortunately, I don't recall ever being treated as "weird" or "abnormal" in school by the other kids, so I can't really relate to that. Like Adele, I was completely unaware of my condition until I was 12 (when I came across the book
All Cats Have Asperger Syndrome, which was the inspiration for that short film I made a couple of years ago), and I don't think any of the kids knew that either. I was never bullied in school, which I bring up because apparently it's a common problem for kids with autism - hell, if anything, I was actually one of the more popular kids in my year level, especially with the girls, for how smart I was.
Now, unfortunately, if I wrote Adele as being a popular kid at school, she'd be heavily lambasted for being a Mary Sue, so I'll try to avoid that if possible. Instead, the other students will probably take a "meh" approach to her, and
at most she'll just have a few friends, and
maybe a creepy abhorrent admirer, similar to Lucretia from... that show no-one here cares about. But at least Adele still has her loyal friends Rozy and Brandon, and later little Cammy.
I don't know why you think it's a good idea to have a gynephobe in a kid's show. Don't. Write it as the kid having social anxiety, or better yet, have him be autistic too, so that Adele can see she's not alone in her struggles and that there are other people not as far ahead on her journey as she is, and build something from there.
Well, sadly, it's acceptable in our society nowadays for girls to brag about how much better they are than boys, with the whole "girls rule, boys drool" drivel, and how girls can hit boys but not vice versa, and in general, women pretty much have more power than men, especially with the whole #MeToo crap that started around 2018-ish. I hate to come across as too much of an MRA, especially since they can be just as bad as feminists, but I feel that boys deserve better than to grow up in a world where they see girls as their superiors rather than their equals, and I've actually experienced that reality myself, having grown up in a mostly female family. I never outright
hated girls and women, but I did always wonder why they're seen as the "better" gender when they're all about being sweet and delicate, and liking everything pink and glittery. (Granted, my sisters were tomboys and played a lot of sports, so I also grew up thinking women had more stamina and were generally sportier than men, which we all know isn't the case.)
And sadly, even children's shows aren't immune from female supremacist propaganda. Shows like
Phineas and Ferb,
Punky Brewster, that
other show I'm not supposed to mention on here, and even that Cartoon Network show that all the spergs hate,
Teen Titans Go, each have an episode where the girls try to prove they're just as good as the boys, and yet the girls always come out on top - you know,
despite trying to have a message about equality. Even shows like
Hilda and
Miraculous Ladybug, where the female protagonist doesn't think any less of the male gender, sadly don't play around with the trope by swapping the genders either (i.e. "boys are just as good as girls"), probably out of fear of being labelled as "misogyny" or "patriarchy". It's a sexist double standard, yes, and that's why I'm trying to fight it.
(And for the record, no, I do
not hate
Teen Titans Go like every cartoon-reviewer sperg does. I've actually sat down to watch the show with my younger cousin, and I actually think it's a decent show - there's not much for adults, but it's
far from the Devil's pubic hair everyone else considers it. I was just listing it as an example of a show that did the "boys vs girls" plot.)
And the main way I'll tackle it is with the star of the show herself - Adele. She sees how boys are often mistreated at school, whether by other female students on the playground, or by female teachers who'd much rather assist the girls over the boys, and she calls it out wherever possible. Being a musician, she's well aware that most musicians throughout history have been men, and she's aware that men are people too, so she sees no reason why boys should be treated like vermin. She may not have brothers, but she has a dad who works hard at his day job and appreciates him putting dinner on the table (subverting that dumbass "when will daddy be home" trope that even
Inside Out succumbed to), and her second best friend, Brandon, is a boy, so she gets the male gender better than her sexist older sister.
And how does this play into Cameron, exactly? Well, he's sadly neglected by his mother and younger sister for the HoRrIfFiC cRiMe Of NoT bEiNg A gIrL, constantly getting picked on by his sister, his mum favouring the sister over him, and even getting abused (albeit in a PG way, kids' show, after all) by his female babysitter. As such, he has become a social shut-in, rarely interacting with anyone (particularly women), and he frequently gets bullied at school, especially by girls. (Because "girls rule, boys drool", amirite?)
And that's where Adele comes in - she sees Cameron getting picked on at school, and she tries to comfort him. A bit timid at first, Cameron doesn't initially trust Adele, but she proves her worth by defending him from those mean girls bullying him. Grateful for this act of kindness, Cameron decides befriend Adele, and they share a close bond over their... being shut out from the other kids.
Admittedly, I did realise Cameron seems
really autistic, and I was thinking, even before you suggested so, canonically making him on the spectrum. He normally just hangs out in his room all day, playing computer games and board games against himself. Hell, if anything, I find it more challenging which kid characters
not to make autistic - for example, Rozy wasn't originally autistic when I created her, but she just seemed like the type,
especially compared to Adele, so I just said "fuck it" and made her autistic.
Why the fuck are you trying to market a preteen/tweenie show by comparing it to the fucking Simpsons and South Park?
Because I've been a fan of those shows at one point or another, and so their style of comedy has influenced me in one way or another. Hell, my show idea literally would not exist without
South Park, since I first created Adele with an online program that lets you design characters in the style of
South Park.
My point was more to say it'll have similar kinds of characters and writing to those kinds of shows, not necessarily that it'll be raunchy like them or cover topics like sex or drugs. It's kind of like, say,
Gravity Falls, where the writing appeals to both kids
and adults, but it won't be too adult that it's inappropriate for kids, and it won't be too kiddish that adults will be bored out of their minds. If it's done properly, anyway - I cannot guarantee it'll all go according to plan, but my point is that's what I'm
trying to go for. And with Adele's parents being prominent characters on the show, instead of being shoved to the sidelines like a lot of kids' shows do, I just might be able to have story and character moments more for adults, but still acceptable for children's programming.
Also worth noting is that when Dan Povenmire pitched
Phineas and Ferb, he described the humour as "
Family Guy meets
SpongeBob", even though he was pitching a show for kids. I mean, yeah - why do you think he specified
SpongeBob? Plus, he actually worked as a writer on both shows, and as a layout artist on
The Simpsons, so he knows what he's talking about better than you or I. Similarly, when Doug Walker reviewed the movie,
Across the 2nd Dimension, for Disneycember, he described it as "
Kim Possible meets
Rick and Morty for kids, but still a funny
Rick and Morty". As in, the humour is
similar to that of
Rick and Morty (the cringe-inducing fanbase aside), but in a way that's suitable for children to watch.
And you might not believe this, but Dave Polsky, creator of "the show that must not be named" and one of the writers on that pony show Enter wanks over, actually used to write on
South Park at one point. Yes -
South Park, one of the forerunners of raunchy adult cartoons that Enter cries sperg tears over for "ruining" adult animation. And I won't lie, it does show on Polsky's own show, where the humour, while suitable for children, is very outlandish like
South Park, and even the character designs look like a kid-friendlier version of the
South Park designs. (One of them even blatantly rips off Kyle's mom!)
My point is, just because I compare a kids' show to an adult show, does not mean the kids' show is raunchy and inappropriate for children. Yes, kids' shows and adult shows' are different media in general, but at the same time they don't exist in vacuums (or "vacua" if you want to get technical), and it's unfair to say there are
no similarities between the two. Just so long as it's simple things like the timing and execution that are similar, as opposed to the actual subject matter, it should still be good.
The Bassoon is NOT obscure. It's a staple of chamber ensembles across the Western world.
Yes, I'm well aware of the important role the bassoon plays in the symphony orchestra - being a musician myself, I
should be aware of this stuff. However, if you were to ask any random person on the street what a bassoon is, chances are they would have no idea. Literally the only reason my family knows what a bassoon is is because I told them. I even once read an online review of a post-movie
Simpsons episode (i.e. when the show had long since turned to crap) where the couch gag was a lame-ass parody/homage/ripoff of the
Silly Symphony short "Musicland", where the residents of Springfield are musical instruments, and the reviewer even thought Mr. Burns and Smithers were
clarinets, when they were actually a bassoon and an oboe, respectively - that's how pretty much unknown the bassoon is in the mainstream pop culture sphere. (Though, to be fair, the oboe doesn't fare much better, if that review is any indication.)
That's the point I was getting at here - that the bassoon is obscure in the mainstream public eye. But again, the rest of the woodwinds don't get it much better - I'm fairly certain the only reason most kids know what a clarinet is is from watching
SpongeBob, for example. Meanwhile, recorders are a fairly standard instrument for kids to learn (even if they sound
shit when played by kids), and the flute is a fairly common instrument for girls to learn in school. But WTF is a bassoon?
It's especially poignant that I specifically chose a
girl character to play the bassoon, because let's be honest - most girls would look at
this thing and be like, "Eww, I'm not playing that! It's so
ugly!" and they wouldn't think it sounds much better either. (It's often described as a "farting bedpost".) Yes, female bassoonists exist, and there even exists an all-female bassoon quartet called the Breaking Winds, but
in general most girls, especially tweens and teenagers, are more interested in looking pretty rather than looking smart, as horribly sexist as that sounds, and as much as I wish it weren't true. And for the record: no, I am
not doing this to "empower/encourage young girls" or any of that other feminist-pandering crap - I just found the image of a little girl playing a bassoon rather amusing, and it's an idea I had even before I created the Adele character, and
especially before I discovered what feminism was.
Overall, the more I read, the more complicated it gets. The appeal of children's shows, even those marketed to the 8-14 bracket, are not *that deep.* You'll have overarching plotlines and character arcs, but a lot of the subject matter you cover would be hard for an 8-10 year old to digest, and some things (gynephobia, mainly) would be deemed completely inappropriate for children's television.
Well, for one thing, that's why there'll be separate episodes/issues for these different topics, rather than cramming them all into one. Just show it in small increments so the target audience can process it properly. Like, imagine if there were a
SpongeBob episode that contained
all of the typical
SpongeBob plotlines: SpongeBob working at the Krusty Krab, Mr. Krabs stopping Plankton from stealing the formula, SpongeBob and Patrick annoying Squidward, SpongeBob and Sandy doing karate, SpongeBob failing his driving test, SpongeBob going jellyfishing, and why not - let's throw Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy in there somewhere. Even for a 22-minute special, this would all be too much plot for at least kids to take in, which is why they are usually tackled in different episodes, with the
occasional overlap here and there (e.g. a Plankton/Mermaid Man crossover episode).
Similarly, imagine if
all of the
Harry Potter books were condensed into one book, where we learn about house elves, Dementors, Horcruxes and the Unforgivable Curses, on top of the typical everyday wizard shtick like the kids learning new spells, Hermione worrying about failing her classes, Ron being his typical wimpy self, and Harry worrying he's too similar to Voldemort. Again, this is
wayyy too much story for any kid to follow, which is why J.K. Rowling split them up into different books, each one getting darker, more serious and more detailed than the previous one, to accommodate for the growing audience. Hell, one common complaint with the films, at least from
Goblet of Fire onwards, is that they cut out
too much of the story, but let's face it - if they adapted
all of
Goblet of Fire into a single film, it would go on for, like,
5 hours, so they had to trim it down to avoid a problem similar to what you're describing. And thankfully, they got around that with
Deathly Hallows, by splitting it up into two parts, although that created the problem of there being too much time with the Golden Trio camping in the woods. Like... do we really care about that? Maybe this one should've been one movie, while
Goblet of Fire be two (as was planned at one point).
So yeah - my point is, I'm planning to do something similar with my series, whether it becomes a show or I just make my own self-published comic series, in that different installments will tackle different issues. Hell, I might even go the
Harry Potter route by having the characters age up as the story progresses - again, to accommodate for the growing audience, and to avoid becoming like
The Simpsons where, because the characters don't age, very little (if anything) is allowed to change on the show. There's a reason the "future" episodes (as in, when Bart and Lisa are grown up) get as much warm reception as they do, even in the crappier recent seasons - because we actually get to see the characters evolve and grow, and even just dealing with different issues like sex and drugs is a fresh change of pace for the characters.
I'd suggest trimming down the concept to its basest form. Make it a pitch about an autistic girl whose family doesn't quite want to acknowledge that she's autistic, she's just 'different'. Instead of trying to go all wacky, multicultural and bringing in a bunch of different nationalities and accents, which are almost IMPOSSIBLE to affordably do authentically- good luck finding a voice actor in Australia who speaks fluent Polish that works cheap- try focusing instead on something relatable to the experiences of autistic children everywhere, the parents of autistic children, and autistic young adults that may just be vegging out on the couch while their younger sister watches the telly.
Again, not quite sure how to do
that storyline, since I was actually raised in a pretty chill family. My mum was actively involved in raising me as a small child, and she even taught me how to read when I was only 2 years old - meanwhile, my dad was a typical dad, going to work, supporting the family financially, taking the kids to school, and playing games with the kids outdoors when there was time. However, the dad in this story is probably more like a typical parent of an autistic child, in that he doesn't quite know how to raise her properly, and basically treats her condition as a "disability", hence why he thinks she might not do well in the music industry. (Again, the keyword here is
thinks - I know we've been over this already.)
Also, if it helps, there are people of Polish descent living in Australia, since the Poles immigrate to just about everywhere for some reason - I'm sure even if I meet someone of Polish descent who doesn't speak fluent Polish since they don't need to in Australia, they might have a
basic grasp on the Polish accent from listening to their parents or their grandparents speak in Polish and/or broken English. And if that fails, there's always outsourcing (the voiceactor for Ferb actually recorded his lines in his native England, for example), and even an amateur such as myself can turn to websites such as the
Voice Acting Club for foreign aid. (And there's also
HiNative for the translation issue you brought up in the other post.)
And even if
that turns out to be a bust, when have cartoons
ever been accurate when it comes to depicting foreigners? Pretty much
every foreign character on
The Simpsons, whether it be Groundskeeper Willie, Chef Luigi or Bumblebee Man, is voiced by an American VA (which, as we all know, has landed Apu in trouble as of late, because it's not like whites get stereotyped, amirite?). I'm not even Scottish and I sometimes cringe hearing Willie's accent, until I remember it's probably intentionally bad for the kind of show
The Simpsons is. And of course, the Australia episode was pretty much nothing but Aussie stereotypes, and not necessarily in a bad way either. (But still, no-one here drinks Foster's! It's an export-only product.) And did I mention that Americans
suck at doing Aussie accents? They always make us sound like Dick van Dyke playing a South African boer for some reason, when most of us sound closer to the "there is no spoon" kid from
The Matrix. (It was filmed in Sydney.) If shitty accents are your main concern, you should watch more episodes of
The Simpsons.
Talk about what it's like growing up, knowing that you're different, but thinking that it's your fault. I've been there. A lot of autistic kids have been there. Talk about what it's like seeing other people function 'normally' and constantly pester you about why you don't. Talk about what it's like to be great at something you love but don't have your family's support in pursuing your dream. Relatable stuff.
Again, it's hard for me personally to relate to that, because I was never considered "weird" at school or within my family, and I didn't even know about my condition until I was 12. But I'm sure if I hire writers who are also on the spectrum, they might be able to depict their experiences in a way I just can't (but I will hire them based on merit, don't you worry).
You're obsessed with complexity. If you don't get over that, you will never get your pitch on the air.
Again, it's not going to all be in one go. But if you're talking about the pitch bible, then I'm... trying to work out the bugs with it. I've noticed that in the series synopsis, for example, I've spent
wayyy too much time describing the character of Adele, when that seems like it should belong in the character description. And I
really need to trim it down so it's simple and to the point - maybe I can afford to make the character descriptions a little lengthy, since I've been told they should take up a page each, but the synopsis should be one or two paragraphs, max.
And if it helps, I'm trying to start simple. Not only am I taking the right steps to actually work my way up - like I said, I'm studying animation at college, and I'm getting the pitch bible ready for when the time comes, even if it's not quite up to scratch - but I'm also planning to make my own independent shorts here and there. I've already made one so far, though it's only 40 seconds long (not counting the credits) as I was nervous and I rushed it out so I wouldn't miss the deadline for my local film festival:
And as of yet, I'm still working on the script for the first comic issue, taking in the criticism you've given, and still planning out how to go about my second animated short. Yes, it'll probably be equally as simple, but hey, we've all gotta start somewhere. And what better way to improve my skills than by actually honing them?
Now, give me my god damn tophat, Farms.
Again, I don't know why you're being so grumpy about it. You're the only person on this site who's actually genuinely trying to help, and showing actual kindness in a cesspool of circlejerking and NT supremacy. If anything, I'm glad you've given me this critique - sure, I don't agree with everything you've said, but I at least understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate the effort to help me grow as a creator, as opposed to tearing me down.
So thank you dearly, Little Armalite, for enlightening me with these suggestions, and giving me pointers on where to go.
It just occurred to me as I'm typing: what if you were to come on board as an assistant writer? Maybe you could help me develop my ideas, and give suggestions for what direction I should take my stories and characters, etc. - I'll have someone to bounce off of, and likewise I could assist you with any personal projects you may be working on. Of course, this is only if you
want to - I understand you seem a bit bitter about this whole situation, so it may be best for you that you don't further involve yourself. But again, if you change your mind, I'll be ready.
Cheers, Sam
only to quickly reveal your true nature as a autistic clarinet playing Australian who Just hates black people.
And... what does being Australian have to do with it? I mean, yeah, we're stereotyped as being racist, but don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to use that as a serious argument?
And also, as I mentioned on the "men write women" thread,
Dot is my favourite character on Harvey Street Kids. Maybe if you actually read that post instead of going "eeuuggh, TL;DR", you would know that.
No one is freaking out over the cat dick. No one here “can’t handle it.” We’re reacting to the fact that you felt your best comeback was googling a cat dick, something a normal person would have no need to google. It also doesn’t help that you have cats, giving much more disturbing implications as to why you would save pictures of cat dicks
Man, you're taking the cat penis picture
wayyy too seriously, especially for people who like to make fun of MrEnter. Yes, it was a lameass joke, but sometimes a lamp is just a lamp - no symbolic "the shade represents the character's emotional struggle" crap your English teacher obsessed over in high school.
Lastly, what is with you, and bugs, Sam? It's starting to seem like you're the bug equivalent of a furry. Whatever the fuck that is.
I’m gonna dub it “being a wiggler.” Since if you’re into it, you likely wanna fuck or be fucked by wiggler from Mario
If this is about the cockroach queen from
Pinky and the Brain, I have one question for you two:
have you seriously never heard of context?!
Bunny or whoever (I really don't care) accused me of wanting to fuck Maggie Pesky because I depicted her with mammaries, even though she's supposed to be 22 in that picture because it's a 10-year-anniversary commemoration. So, to counter that, I mentioned an example of an insect character canonically depicted with breasts on the actual show she was on, and stated that the makers of that show would be "wigglers" by Bunny's logic.
Maybe it's just a visual indicator to show that the character is a lady? You guys sound like Anita Sarkeesian when you complain about that stuff.
I guess you must also think I'm a bisexual wiggler just because the male cockroach has a buff, humanoid male figure. ...which would also mean the makers of
Pinky and the Brain are bisexual wigglers. Hell - the main characters are mice, so the creators probably fuck mice in their off time. I mean, it's your logic, not mine - I'm just using it.
