The Writing Systems Thread

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May 14, 2019
I have been learning useless scripts lately, especially as I set out with the big project of learning Morse and Cyrillic and wound up doing them in two days each.
The four that I could read at some point, learned, or am learning:

CHEROKEE
Cherokee is one of my favorite scripts, but it is also completely useless. The story of Cherokee goes back to Sequoyah, who was, like all great Indians, part White. The Cherokee were sort of the master race of the Indian South, which is no coincidence as they were a faction of the Iroquois (the master race of the Indian North) that drifted south to colonize the Southern Appalachians. Their potential for growth really kicked off at their subordination to the United States, when they underwent what can only be described as a miniature Meiji Restoration with the tribe developing its own constitutional republic, mass conversion to Christianity, plantation slavery and market economies, and, indeed, the development of their own script that they achieved 100% literacy in in a matter of years. The Cherokee were, at the time of the Trail of Tears, essentially brown-skinned Europeans that wore top hats and Bible societies. They had a very heavy contingent of Scottish blood.

In Seminole culture there is a myth that in ancient times the Great Spirit made three races of men from the clay. The first batch he baked in the oven too little, and they came out sickly, undercooked and pale, and these were White men. The second batch he overdid and they came out burnt and addled in the head, and they were Black men. The last batch he got just right, and they came out the perfect human beings, red Indians. Great Spirit then offered them three gifts. The Black man went first and greedily and stupidly demanded the biggest present, only to find it was a plow and his curse would be to work the land forever. The White man was clever and conniving and chose the smallest gift, receiving talking leaves with which he'd command the Black man and make his living off of deceit. The Indian received a bow and arrow, as is befitting of a free man.

Sequoyah, an illiterate, did not know how to read but did understand the concept of reading. Cherokee as a language has the feature of being syllabic: there is a tightly defined list of syllables consisting of a consonant/diphthong followed by a vowel, and there's not that many of them (only five vowels). As such, Sequyoah didn't think to create an alphabet but instead a syllabary: the syllable would be represented by a symbol. This made it incredibly easy to learn, but also completely useless for writing anything other than Cherokee in since languages like English use an unfathomably wider range of syllables.

To date Sequoyah remains the only man to independently invent a writing system without being able to read or write.
Cherokeephoenix-5-1828.png
Cherokee Syllabary.JPG

DESERET
Deseret was, like a lot of features of the Mormon religion, a project of Yankee utopianism that has been forgotten outside of its context (although it informs much of what makes Mormonism distinctive, just like understanding Christianity as a product of Hellenistic Judea). Mormonism as a movement was, in my opinion, the Northern version of what Mark Twain observed in antebellum Southern society with the Fire Eaters and Romanticism: a hard turn towards infantile Medievalism. Whereas Southerners wanted to LARP as lords and ladies from Sir Walter Scott novels, Northerners, a much more religious people, wanted to LARP as Biblical patriarchs, Church Fathers and Popes. So you have this stretch of New England (the Burned Over District) that is rocked with constant intense religious revivals and denominational fracturing, and in steps Joseph Smith who cobbles together a new religion out of various theological ideas that have been circulating around (especially heavy use of Swedenborgianism, which had a contingent in Pennsylvania nearby), driven by his personal ambition of becoming American Muhammad and psychologically sold as a way to let Manifest Destiny America recenter the Biblical story on itself.

Given this goal of LARPing, and the Yankee penchant for retarded utopian social engineering, it was inevitable that they would have to create a new script. The justification was orthographic reform to make it easier to teach literacy to the many different immigrant groups in Deseret. The real reason was, again, probably performative LARPing and Jew-like self-segregation from broader society. Either way, Brigham Young has this bullshit cooked up that looks ancient-ish.

Similar to Sequoyah, this wasn't a syllabary but it was a phonemic alphabet. In theory, each sound in the English language gets its own letter. In practice, this is harder than it sounds due to coarticulation, likewise a little messy across dialects. But the point remains, you write things exactly as they sound, and it has the interesting consequence that dialect and accent are rendered precisely.
Deseret_Second_Book_Juvenile_Hymn_page_23.jpg
deseret.gif

Today Deseret is the official state alphabet of the Republic of Molossia ('member when microstates were still interesting/funny? like back when you were 12?).

SHAVIAN
Shavian was the same shit but dreamed up by George Bernard Shaw, a Globohomo playwright so arrogant that he commissioned an alphabet in his name that he himself could not be bothered to write.

Whatever you think of him today, Glenn Beck was my introduction to "cultural Marxism" (the Frankfurt School and other adjacent intellectuals like Gramsci and postmodernism) and he bitched about Shaw all the time. Shaw was what a Fabian, the Fabian Society being this creepy-ass Illuminati type group that wanted to (in contrast to Marxism-Leninism's open revolutions) gradually reform capitalist society into socialism. They took their name from Fabian tactics (Fabius' giving ground to wear Hannibal down with attrition before decisive battle) and used a wolf wearing a sheepskin as their symbol. So, while this came along a fair bit later, think of Shavian as being to writing systems what Esperanto was meant to be to languages: a faggot socialist project to destroy what is unique and traditional in a culture. His theoretical justification for this bullshit was that we spend too much ink and time on writing.

As a writing system, Shavian has many interesting features since it was a project of R A T I O N A L I T Y. Phonemes come in pairs, usually voiced and unvoiced but sometimes other themes if appropriate, where you'll write one one way and then the symbol for the other is a symmetrical transformation of the other. So in theory you can learn pairs, and it's an interesting exercise to find the Shavian transform of a word or name and say it aloud, like Pig Latin for Giga-Brains. It absolutely has a logic.

Looks easy? Eh. It turns out that letters being complex figures makes them easier to remember. Honestly, the more I work in it, the more I have contempt for this retard, classic case of an intellectual not understanding the reasons behind why we do things the way we do.
Shavian.gif
gettysburg-address.png

CYRILLIC
A heavily adapted version of Greek for Slavic languages developed by Saint Cyril some other dead faggot. This one I chose for the theoretical use of it, one day, with Russian. You can kind of do English with it, but English has an abnormally large range of phonemes, and Russian a narrow one, so you wind up having to make up conventions to transliterate English words from Roman to Cyrillic. At least it's useful for reading Russian words to say aloud - I always hated how online translators tended to spit back resuts in Cyrillic, what the fuck am I supposed to do wtih this - and I can test it on Cyrillic place names, people names and when watching Russian movies/playing Slavjank games.
_85601396_1024-poster-3-full.jpg
Cyrillic Alphabet.jpg
 
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I just spent a month in Bulgaria, their Cyrillic is a bit different from Russian / Ukranian Cyrillic, but it took me about three or four days to get used to it. The real problem was that even after I could read words in it, it still took me some time to figure out how to work through each syllable and how to read them aloud, you feel like a four year old with a "Baby's First Alphabet" book in your native language. I had the same problem in Greece. Contrast that with Albania, where I lived for a year, and I could read everything perfectly fine from day one because they use the Latin alphabet.

Shaw's thing looks like some unnecessarily complex version of shorthand, which nobody uses these days because there's no need.
 
It was developed by St. Naum, retard

Nobody uses glagolitic anymore
"
The Early Cyrillic alphabet was developed during the 9th century AD at the Preslav Literary School in the First Bulgarian Empire during the reign of Tsar Simeon I the Great, probably by the disciples of the two Byzantine brothers Cyril and Methodius, who had previously created the Glagolitic script. Among them were Clement of Ohrid, Naum of Preslav, Constantine of Preslav, Joan Ekzarh, Chernorizets Hrabar, Angelar, Sava and other scholars.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script#cite_note-7"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script#cite_note-8"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script#cite_note-FOOTNOTECurta2006221–222-9"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_script#cite_note-10"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a> The script is named in honor of Saint Cyril.

"

Hm. Okay.
 
I like Cyrillic, I find its use in most of the languages that use it to be way more phonetic compared to how the Latin is used in English. Definitely worth checking out other languages beyond Russian because there are variations on the characters they use.

It was developed by St. Naum, retard
Without even looking at your profile I just knew you were Bulgarian.

Nobody uses glagolitic anymore
Pity. Its a really cool looking script.
 

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I got interested in the Manchu script recently. Very cool writing system that survived as a sort of 'secret language' and art motif among the Manchu elite of the Qing dynasty even as they Sinicized over the years, to the point where the language is now almost dead. It was basically an adaption by Nurhaci and some of his top officials of the Mongol script to the Manchu language, and is the only example I can think of where a language was brought to the verge of extinction even as the ethnic group which spoke it rose to greater and greater heights of power.

1772902496176.png1772902586905.png

You can definitely see the similarities to Tokien's fictional elvish languages, the first iteration of which was even written vertically like the historical Mongol script. Very interestingly, the Mongol script itself descends from Sogdian, which descends from Syriac, and that from Aramaic. So you had Qing emperors and concubines from the Manchu banners writing in the 18th century in a dying script ultimately descended from the language of Christ.
 
It was better for transcribing slavic phonemes but the gayreek academics clitty-leaked too hard and now we're stuck with letters that no two slavic countries can agree on

Still more consistent than Latin alphabet. Same character pronounced differently in other languages with a ton of diacritics and some just throwing runic characters.
 
CHEROKEE
Cherokee is one of my favorite scripts, but it is also completely useless. The story of Cherokee goes back to Sequoyah, who was, like all great Indians, part White. The Cherokee were sort of the master race of the Indian South, which is no coincidence as they were a faction of the Iroquois (the master race of the Indian North) that drifted south to colonize the Southern Appalachians. Their potential for growth really kicked off at their subordination to the United States, when they underwent what can only be described as a miniature Meiji Restoration with the tribe developing its own constitutional republic, mass conversion to Christianity, plantation slavery and market economies, and, indeed, the development of their own script that they achieved 100% literacy in in a matter of years. The Cherokee were, at the time of the Trail of Tears, essentially brown-skinned Europeans that wore top hats and Bible societies. They had a very heavy contingent of Scottish blood.

In Seminole culture there is a myth that in ancient times the Great Spirit made three races of men from the clay. The first batch he baked in the oven too little, and they came out sickly, undercooked and pale, and these were White men. The second batch he overdid and they came out burnt and addled in the head, and they were Black men. The last batch he got just right, and they came out the perfect human beings, red Indians. Great Spirit then offered them three gifts. The Black man went first and greedily and stupidly demanded the biggest present, only to find it was a plow and his curse would be to work the land forever. The White man was clever and conniving and chose the smallest gift, receiving talking leaves with which he'd command the Black man and make his living off of deceit. The Indian received a bow and arrow, as is befitting of a free man.

Sequoyah, an illiterate, did not know how to read but did understand the concept of reading. Cherokee as a language has the feature of being syllabic: there is a tightly defined list of syllables consisting of a consonant/diphthong followed by a vowel, and there's not that many of them (only five vowels). As such, Sequyoah didn't think to create an alphabet but instead a syllabary: the syllable would be represented by a symbol. This made it incredibly easy to learn, but also completely useless for writing anything other than Cherokee in since languages like English use an unfathomably wider range of syllables.

To date Sequoyah remains the only man to independently invent a writing system without being able to read or write.
Cherokeephoenix-5-1828.png
Cherokee Syllabary.JPG
I'm pretty sure there was a different script created by an illiterate guy for the Hmong language. I like it more than the popular transcription where it looks like a 12 year old's attempt at creating a fictional language.
 
One of my favorite bits of trivia from the Elder Scrolls series is that when they were making the Dragon language for Skyrim they made it so that all the symbols could be easily made by the Dragons using their claws on stone. Apparently this was Todd Howard's idea, which is shocking to me, though he didn't actually design it himself and instead they brought a guy to put that idea to work.

1772907443052.png1772907462255.png
 
As such, Sequyoah didn't think to create an alphabet but instead a syllabary: the syllable would be represented by a symbol.

This is what makes hiragana and katakana so easy too, being a syllabary, and it comes with the same limitations. Hiragana was originally used as "woman's writing", since educated men preferred to use kanji. The Tale of Genji was written in hiragana as a result, one of the first books by a woman. The evolution of the writing system in Japan is pretty intriguing overall, given much of it is borrowed from hanzi and grew into its own thing.

Honestly using the complicated pictoral written system does make many Asian languages difficult. I wonder if any other country would consider following Korea and just toss out the kanji and use a simple set of letters to make literacy easier.

But also, something something skill issue.
 
This is what makes hiragana and katakana so easy too, being a syllabary, and it comes with the same limitations. Hiragana was originally used as "woman's writing", since educated men preferred to use kanji. The Tale of Genji was written in hiragana as a result, one of the first books by a woman. The evolution of the writing system in Japan is pretty intriguing overall, given much of it is borrowed from hanzi and grew into its own thing.

Honestly using the complicated pictoral written system does make many Asian languages difficult. I wonder if any other country would consider following Korea and just toss out the kanji and use a simple set of letters to make literacy easier.

But also, something something skill issue.
One of my majors in university was Japanese and I worked in Japan in Japanese and I know some background about this so I’ll add:

Modern Japanese is really easy by comparison. Even Japanese people have a really hard time reading Japanese from before the 20th century. It’s just too different and hard. Lots more kanji and kanji have a lot of old readings for various things.

But when I lived in Japan I learned quickly that hiragana and katakana do NOT suffice nearly enough to do anything productive. You need to learn about 500 kanji before you can function reasonably well in society. 2000 before you reach high school equivalency. Then there are all of these weird ways of combining them that change the meanings and the hardest thing for me was remembering the readings. I was actually pretty good at writing them, surprisingly.
 
One of my majors in university was Japanese and I worked in Japan in Japanese and I know some background about this so I’ll add:

Modern Japanese is really easy by comparison. Even Japanese people have a really hard time reading Japanese from before the 20th century. It’s just too different and hard. Lots more kanji and kanji have a lot of old readings for various things.

But when I lived in Japan I learned quickly that hiragana and katakana do NOT suffice nearly enough to do anything productive. You need to learn about 500 kanji before you can function reasonably well in society. 2000 before you reach high school equivalency. Then there are all of these weird ways of combining them that change the meanings and the hardest thing for me was remembering the readings. I was actually pretty good at writing them, surprisingly.
Hah, I could happily sperg about the fun complexities of Japanese orthography for hours, but yeah, watching Japanese people trying to read anything pre-Meiji is fucking funny: traditional kanji forms, rare kanji, absence of voice marks, historical kana usage, hentai-gana, highly-contracted okurigana usage, literary grammar, 漢文訓読体 (a subject unto itself), near-absent punctuation...

But there are some very interesting and largely-untranslated writings which can't be enjoyed any other way.
 
This is what makes hiragana and katakana so easy too, being a syllabary, and it comes with the same limitations. Hiragana was originally used as "woman's writing", since educated men preferred to use kanji. The Tale of Genji was written in hiragana as a result, one of the first books by a woman. The evolution of the writing system in Japan is pretty intriguing overall, given much of it is borrowed from hanzi and grew into its own thing.

Honestly using the complicated pictoral written system does make many Asian languages difficult. I wonder if any other country would consider following Korea and just toss out the kanji and use a simple set of letters to make literacy easier.

But also, something something skill issue.
Hanzi and Kanji are not going anywhere; trying to abolish them would cripple the languages due to the immense number of perfect homophones.

To illustrate:

japPronunciation.jpg

Columns:
1) Chinese Hanzi, all unique
2) Modern Standard Chinese pronunciation
3) Modern Cantonese pronunciation
4) Modern Korean pronunciation
5) Nara-period (7th century) Japanese pronunciation
6) Edo-period-and-later (17th century onward) Japanese pronunciation

Now, for the ultimate useless script:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangut_script
 
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