The Writing Thread

[Group Project Carrier]

Quick rant because I'm pretty autistic about this whole thing

Been on a literature hunting spree lately, was curious about what the publishers look for in an authors work/book. Let's take a look at Elsevier, I mean they have some math and physics books, can't be that bad right!?

> "Use of inclusive language"
> "Sex and gender reporting"
> let's look at an (((random))) example...
> "Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation"

I hate publishers, it's all so gay. No wonder students feel repulsed reading shit in school when its authors are forced to type in the gayest and most retarded way possible. Yeah, this "guideline" sure will make the youth read more and learn stuff...

Not just the publishers themselves--agents too. I've been on-and-off querying agents over the past few years, whenever I have the time to actually write query letters + comb through/revise my manuscripts to make sure they're not completely disgusting + search for "comparables". I couldn't tell you how many agents' pages I've looked through, about 90% of which wouldn't match their own qualifications for a "good" story or author (straight millenial white ladies, although of course there's a healthy heaping of faggots as well).

Every single one of them talks about how much they love "diverse perspectives", while at the same time admitting that they want you to conform to tropes and not write anything original




("Arranged marriages" yet also "healthy, equal, and respectful relationships", kek)



Not to mention "LGBTQIA2S+" being in every agent wishlist as if that's a genre

But here's the really fun part. As much as they yap about "diverse perspectives" and wanting to hear from "underrepresented authors", agents have a quota for how many books of a certain genre they can represent. Which means that they'll probably end up going with white authors who write "diverse" stories anyway. For example, they won't take on an Asian client who wrote an Asian mythology-inspired story because they already got 5 such stories from white authors. Insert any other genre or demographic here.

Side note: you might be thinking, well, of course agents are plugging all of that garbage--it's not about what they want, it's about what publishers are willing to buy the rights to, because the publishers know what the people want. Partially correct. But if it really is all about publisher preferences and "what will sell", then why are so many agents plugging dead genres like YA fantasy that only occupy 5% of the market share? (For anyone wondering, standard adult romance remains the majority at 50%, and mysteries/thrillers another 35%-ish.)

 

[Pomniman]

Quick rant

lol, don't even get me started on those niggers, I could easily write the next Mein Kampf about the whole of American Publishing if I was so inclined.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

Side note: you might be thinking, well, of course agents are plugging all of that garbage--it's not about what they want, it's about what publishers are willing to buy the rights to, because the publishers know what the people want. Partially correct. But if it really is all about publisher preferences and "what will sell", then why are so many agents plugging dead genres like YA fantasy that only occupy 5% of the market share? (For anyone wondering, standard adult romance remains the majority at 50%, and mysteries/thrillers another 35%-ish.)

Yep never let women invade into the male dominated fantasy and sci-fi space they literally read trash novels like Bethlehem Steel.

But there's more of a general question if you take a generalized concept from someone else's book is that technically being unoriginal I'm specifically talking about one of SM sterling's books where all of technology stops working.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Working on a project, but I've been having an issue where I know what I want to write, but not how to write it. Hell, I've been having trouble just putting my thoughts into bullet points.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Working on a project, but I've been having an issue where I know what I want to write, but not how to write it. Hell, I've been having trouble just putting my thoughts into bullet points.

Once you figure out how it begins the rest is relatively easy. Failing that, just write whatever. It can be an idea, a line, an image, just write and lay it out and see if it all connects.

 

[Shaneequa]

Quick rant because I'm pretty autistic about this whole thing

When I was querying I developed a PTSD trigger response to the phrase "#OwnStories" and agents having such an absurdly specific wishlist that it seemed to me like they just wanted someone to ghost write their "black, disabled, nonbinary, hijabi, middle earth, found family, high concept but also personal" story for them.

 

[Group Project Carrier]

Working on a project, but I've been having an issue where I know what I want to write, but not how to write it. Hell, I've been having trouble just putting my thoughts into bullet points.

If there's anything specific you want advice on, you can ask! I'm decently confident in my advice-giving skills. One minor thing to start: your choice of medium can actually impact your ability to write out your ideas. I prefer typing to write out things I "already know", since I can get them down faster. But when I'm trying to work out something I don't know, I prefer paper, since I just can't think in front of a computer for some reason. You might be the opposite! Do what works.

If your project is a novel--"plot maps" may seem cheesy/tedious to you, as they did to me when I was first getting started, but I do recommend the 7-step structure. I'm using it now for my third novel in a row and it works much better than anything I tried before. (It could even work for short stories, although due to their more compact nature, I prefer a simple zig-zag chart between "character" and "world"--I can provide an example if you want.)

Most likely you won't be able to complete a full plot chart right away. But you did say you know what you want to write, so start off by just describing generally "what happens". How would you describe your story to a friend, if they asked about it in a casual conversation?

Then check that description against the steps of the plot map, and see which parts you know you have already. After that, you'll know which parts you're missing--the in-between stages that lead one thing to another. And you can come up with what those might be based on the parts you do have.

I used to be a diehard "pantser", but it definitely didn't work for me. Just writing whatever comes to mind, with no formal structure in place, can help you to get started if you're having trouble beginning a piece that you already plotted out. But from my experience, attempting to write an entire piece like that tended to lead to something shapeless or directionless. I had to either discontinue those projects, because I realized they were unsalvageable in terms of plot, or I did finish them but they required extensive edits to resolve continuity issues, which were the result of trying to take the plot in different directions at different times as the story came together. If you think that process could work for you, then go for it.

The 7-step structure is also very useful if you have multiple central characters and you want to keep track of their individual subplots. Plot them each out as if they were their own thing, and then try to figure out how you would put them all into chronological order. In terms of planning characters themselves, I can give you some tips for that too if you need them, but I won't sperg anymore unless you ask

When I was querying I developed a PTSD trigger response to the phrase "#OwnStories" and agents having such an absurdly specific wishlist that it seemed to me like they just wanted someone to ghost write their "black, disabled, nonbinary, hijabi, middle earth, found family, high concept but also personal" story for them.

Hey, did you ever manage to get an agent?

If it makes you feel better, you're kind of right. Most agents proudly admit that they themselves are, or were, authors. And ask yourself: if their writing careers were successful and paying well, would they need to stoop to taking on a secondary job reading other people's work?

 

[Jewthulhu]

If there's anything specific you want advice on, you can ask! I'm decently confident in my advice-giving skills. One minor thing to start: your choice of medium can actually impact your ability to write out your ideas. I prefer typing to write out things I "already know", since I can get them down faster. But when I'm trying to work out something I don't know, I prefer paper, since I just can't think in front of a computer for some reason. You might be the opposite! Do what works.

It's a nonfiction essay-thing I'm writing out for the hell of it. My problem has always been voicing what I'm thinking, and being substantial about it (more than a single sentence). I've got a basic idea of what I want to say, but not how to say it. And if I can think of how to say it, it's three sentences for something that should be more substantial. It's not helped by my writing style being very... exact? I spend too much time on sentence structure, basically.

 

[Pomniman]

It's a nonfiction essay-thing I'm writing out for the hell of it. My problem has always been voicing what I'm thinking, and being substantial about it (more than a single sentence). I've got a basic idea of what I want to say, but not how to say it. And if I can think of how to say it, it's three sentences for something that should be more substantial. It's not helped by my writing style being very... exact? I spend too much time on sentence structure, basically.

Consider meth.

 

[Shaneequa]

Hey, did you ever manage to get an agent?

Kind of, I just sort of partnered with a guy who wanted to make his own publishing house and im like honestly i got nothing better going on and i was ready to just be done with that particular project so i went for it. He shouldered the non-Amazon printing and the formatting for the paperback (it came out really pretty, imo) even after the proof got fucked up and he had to re-do the entire thing.

It's a nonfiction essay-thing I'm writing out for the hell of it.

Are you the guy who was writing schizoid manifestos?

 

[Group Project Carrier]

It's a nonfiction essay-thing I'm writing out for the hell of it. My problem has always been voicing what I'm thinking, and being substantial about it (more than a single sentence). I've got a basic idea of what I want to say, but not how to say it. And if I can think of how to say it, it's three sentences for something that should be more substantial.

Then that's a trickier problem. Essays, unless they're research essays that quote and analyze facts/evidence, are pretty much the most raw writing form. 100% thoughts and ideas, no real structure to conform to. (For instance, Sei Shonagon's "Hateful Things".) My question would be to ask yourself--if you can't free-form yap about this topic for at least a page or two, then what makes you want to write an essay about it? What about this subject makes it important/worth the effort to you? Maybe your answer to that question could help you write.

Instead of trying to write it down ... maybe, to combat that "exactness" you mentioned, you could start drafting in an audio form. Open a voice note and just sperg about the topic as much as you can. Or, if you want to stick to writing, break your main idea into sub-ideas instead of approaching it as one whole.

Another useful thing with short-form writing (particularly short stories and essays) is to find a piece similar to what you want to achieve, and just analyze its structure. So, consider: are you writing a narrative essay? a persuasive essay? a descriptive essay? There are tons out there. Find a nice concise one and, as you're reading, make notes of what each paragraph/section does for the whole. Then, turn those sections into individual writing prompts. You don't need to use these particular ones, but just as examples, you might have things like,

State the opinion:
Describe the cultural/real world context surrounding the issue:
State and explain a common counterargument:
Connect to personal experience:
State a historical example:

Things like that. You can answer each prompt on its own, treating each one sort of as a question, and then attach all your answers together in the order they were in the example essay you read. If that order doesn't work, then move the individual parts around in a way that suits your vision better.

Kind of, I just sort of partnered with a guy who wanted to make his own publishing house and im like honestly i got nothing better going on and i was ready to just be done with that particular project so i went for it.

Wow, lucky! I wish I knew someone like that, if only to see my manuscripts in print form. The only trouble is that you lose the benefit of in-house publicity. Although, even with standard publishing houses, it seems the author has to do a lot of self-promo anyway. Can't have shit in the social media age.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Are you the guy who was writing schizoid manifestos?

Spoiler

MAKE COPIES FOR YOURSELF
THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM THIS WORSE GANGSTER POLICE STATE, USING ALL OF THE DEADLY GANGSTER FRANKENSTEIN CONTROLS. IN 1965 C.I.A. GANGSTER POLICE BEAT ME BLOODILY, DRAGGED ME IN CHAINS from KENNEDY N.Y. AIRPORT. SINCE THEN I HIDE in FORCED JOBLESS POVERTY, ISOLATED ALONE in this LOW DEADLY NIGERTOWN OLD HOUSE.
THE BRAZEN, DEADLY GANGSTER POLICE AND NIGER PUPPET UNDERLINGS SPRAY ME WITH POISON NERVE GAS from AUTOMOBILE EXHAUSTS AND EVEN LAWN MOWERS, DEADLY ASSAULTS. EVEN IN MY YARD, WITH KNIVES, EVEN BRICKS and STONES, EVEN DEADLY TOUCH TABIN, or ELECTRIC SHOCK “FLASH LITE” EVEN REMOTE ELECTRONICALLY CONTROLLED AROUND CORNERS TRAJECTION of DEADLY TOUCH TARANTULA SPIDERS, or EVEN BLOODY MURDER “ACCIDENTS” TO SHUT ME UP FOREVER WITH A “SNEAK UNDETECTABLE EXTERMINATION”, EVEN WITH TRAINED PARROTING PUPPET ASSASSINS, IN MAXIMUM SECURITY INSANITY PRISON FOR WRITING THESE UNFORGIVABLE, TRUTHFUL LETTERS.
UNTIL MY “UNDETECTABLE EXTERMINATION”, I, FRANCIS E. DEC, ESQUIRE, 29 MAPLE AVENUE, HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. I STAND ALONE AGAINST YOUR MAD DEADLY WORLD-WIDE CONSPIRATORIAL GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD COMMUNISM WITH WALL to WALL DEADLY GANGSTER PROTECTION, LIFE LONG SWORN CONSPIRATORS MURDER INCORPORATED ORGANIZED CRIME, THE POLICE AND JUDGES, the DEADLY SNEAK PARROTING PUPPET GANGSTERS USING ALL THE GANGSTER DEADLY FRANKENSTEIN CONTROLS.
THESE HANGMAN ROPE SNEAK DEADLY GANGSTERS, THE JUDGES AND THE POLICE trick-trap, rob, wreck, butcher, and murder the people to keep them TERRORIZED IN GANGSTER FRANKENSTEIN EARPHONE RADIO SLAVERY for the COMMUNIST GANGSTER GOVERNMENT and CON ARTIST PARROTING PUPPET GANGSTER PLAY BOY SCUM ON TOP. THE SECRET WORK of ALL POLICE in ORDER to MAINTAIN A COMMUNIST CLOSED SOCIETY.
The same world-wide mad deadly COMMUNIST GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD that CONTROLS YOU AS A TERRORIZED GANGSTER FRANKENSTEIN EARPHONE RADIO SLAVE, PARROTING PUPPET.
YOU ARE A TERRORIZED MEMBER of the “MASTER RACE”, WORLD-WIDE FOUR BILLION EYE-SIGHT TELEVISION CAMERA GUINEA PIG COMMUNIST GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD “MASTER RACE.” YOUR LIVING THINKING MAD, DEADLY WORLD-WIDE COMMUNIST GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD SECRET OVER-ALL PLAN: WORLD-WIDE LIVING DEATH FRANKENSTEIN SLAVERY to EXPLORE AND CONTROL THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. With the ENDLESS “STAIRWAY TO THE STARS.” Namely the MAN MADE INSIDE-OUT PLANETS with NUCLEONIC POWERED SPEEDS MUCH FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT. LOOK UP AND SEE THE GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD CONCOCTED NEW FAKE STARRY SKY. THE WORLD-WIDE COMPLETELY CONTROLLED DEADLY DEGENERATIVE CLIMATE AND ATMOSPHERE. THROUGH THE NEW WORLD ROUND TRANSLUCENT EXOTIC GASEOUS ENVELOPE, WHICH the WORLD-WIDE COMMUNIST GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD MANIPULATES THROUGH COUNTLESS EXACTLY POSITIONED SATELLITES, THE NEW FAKE, PHONY STARS IN THE SYNTHETIC “SKY”.
FOR AGES BEFORE FRANKENSTEIN CONTROLS, APOIDIC NIGERS, INTERBREEDABLE WITH APES HAD NO ALPHABET, NOT EVEN NUMERALS.
SLAVERY CONSPIRACY OVER 300 YEARS AGO, IDEAL TINY BRAIN APOIDIC NIGER GANGSTER GOVERNMENT EYESIGHT T.V. GANGSTER SPY CAMERAS. C. GOD “NEW WORLD ORDER” DEGENERATION with “GIFTED” with ALL GANGSTER FRANKENSTEIN CONTROLS NIGER DEADLY GANGSTER PARROTING PUPPET OR NIGER BRAIN PROGRAMMED ROBOTS DEADLY APE FRANKENSTEIN MACHINES, DEGENERATIVE DISEASE TO ETERNAL FRANKENSTEIN SLAVERY, OVER-ALL PLAN through “ONE WORLD COMMUNISM” (top secret code word), meaning WORLD-WIDE ABSOLUTELY HELPLESS AND HOPELESS SIMPLE LANGUAGE MONGREL MULATTO APOIDIC NIGERS.
Worldwide SYSTEMATIC INSTANT-PLASTIC SURGERY BUTCHERY MURDER, “FAKE AGING”, SO ALL PEOPLE ARE DEAD OR USELESS BY AGE 70. DONE AT NITE TO YOU AS A FRANKENSTEIN SLAVE. PARROTING PUPPET GANGSTER SLAVE, NOW, EVEN YOU KNOW I AM A MENACE to your world-wide mad deadly COMMUNIST GANGSTER COMPUTER GOD, THEREFORE, I MUST GO TO EXTERMINATION. BEFORE I AM EXTERMINATED BY THIS GANGSTER, COMPUTER GOD CONCOCTED AND CONTROLLED WORSE MONGREL ORGANIZED CRIME MURDER INCORPORATED GANGSTER COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT, I HAND YOU THE SECRETS TO SAVE THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, AND THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE.
DONATE MONEY OR EVEN A MANUAL TYPEWRITER TO ME, FOR YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR A FUTURE.

I'm actually trying to describe a field I find interesting and that many people don't know much about.

Then that's a trickier problem. Essays, unless they're research essays that quote and analyze facts/evidence, are pretty much the most raw writing form. 100% thoughts and ideas, no real structure to conform to. (For instance, Sei Shonagon's "Hateful Things".) My question would be to ask yourself--if you can't free-form yap about this topic for at least a page or two, then what makes you want to write an essay about it? What about this subject makes it important/worth the effort to you? Maybe your answer to that question could help you write.

Instead of trying to write it down ... maybe, to combat that "exactness" you mentioned, you could start drafting in an audio form. Open a voice note and just sperg about the topic as much as you can. Or, if you want to stick to writing, break your main idea into sub-ideas instead of approaching it as one whole.

Another useful thing with short-form writing (particularly short stories and essays) is to find a piece similar to what you want to achieve, and just analyze its structure. So, consider: are you writing a narrative essay? a persuasive essay? a descriptive essay? There are tons out there. Find a nice concise one and, as you're reading, make notes of what each paragraph/section does for the whole. Then, turn those sections into individual writing prompts. You don't need to use these particular ones, but just as examples, you might have things like,

State the opinion:
Describe the cultural/real world context surrounding the issue:
State and explain a common counterargument:
Connect to personal experience:
State a historical example:

Things like that. You can answer each prompt on its own, treating each one sort of as a question, and then attach all your answers together in the order they were in the example essay you read. If that order doesn't work, then move the individual parts around in a way that suits your vision better.

Thanks, I'm going to try some of that.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

I got 12 pages of a new novel started it's going pretty well.
How I like to write is I like to write 30 pages then go back in fix all of the things that stinks sound kinda dumb.
I wanna get this novel roughly finished by the end of the month

 

[BrunoMattei]

I got 12 pages of a new novel started it's going pretty well.
How I like to write is I like to write 30 pages then go back in fix all of the things that stinks sound kinda dumb.
I wanna get this novel roughly finished by the end of the month

Unsolicited advice: when you're done, sit on it for a good 6 months and then return to it.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

Unsolicited advice: when you're done, sit on it for a good 6 months and then return to it.

Any particular reason

 

[BrunoMattei]

Any particular reason

It's good habit. Ideas that might seem genius at first might be actually terrible when you take a moment, breathe, reflect, and come back to it with a different perspective.

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

It's good habit. Ideas that might seem genius at first might be actually terrible when you take a moment, breathe, reflect, and come back to it with a different perspective.

It's what I do with a lot of my story ideas; frankly, I might do it a bit too much. I keep second-guessing myself on plot ideas, always asking if this is really "the best" option for the plot. I've jumped back and forth on that werewolf character design idea from over a week ago WAY too much... to the point where I'm second-guessing on the species/design AGAIN. Gotten to the point where I kinda want to just ditch the whole thing, frankly; I like the idea, but...

 

[Commissar Fuklaw]

Close enough is good enough.

Edit: All you disagreeing are wrong. Trying to perfect anything before you even start is silly because people like Scream paralyse themselves. Just get it out and let it sit and if anything comes to you later you'll know how to integrate it. At the same time you can't shine anything past a certain point and you're better off moving on. That's why close enough is good enough. An imperfect diamond is better than a pebble. Perfect is the enemy of good etc.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Close enough is good enough.

Edit: All you disagreeing are wrong. Trying to perfect anything before you even start is silly because people like Scream paralyse themselves. Just get it out and let it sit and if anything comes to you later you'll know how to integrate it. At the same time you can't shine anything past a certain point and you're better off moving on. That's why close enough is good enough. An imperfect diamond is better than a pebble. Perfect is the enemy of good etc.

That's just defeatist. It should be "perfection" in your mind. Don't be an underachiever with your craft.

 

[Scream Aim Fire]

Close enough is good enough.

Edit: All you disagreeing are wrong. Trying to perfect anything before you even start is silly because people like Scream paralyse themselves. Just get it out and let it sit and if anything comes to you later you'll know how to integrate it. At the same time you can't shine anything past a certain point and you're better off moving on. That's why close enough is good enough. An imperfect diamond is better than a pebble. Perfect is the enemy of good etc.

Funnily enough, I'm actually working on the main plot for the story right now; granted, it's in the storyboard phase, but I'm getting things sorted out pretty well. Legit my only issue right now is the character design that I mentioned earlier... which is admittedly a plot point that doesn't pop up until pretty late in the story. Right now, I'm just focusing on the rest of the plot; I just want to try and get some ideas nailed down now, instead of getting caught later.

Not that I disagree, mind; I'm just posting some current progress.

EDIT: Bit of an update; after doing a bit more digging and talking with a friend, I think I'm going to be going for a design based on Heraldry. Granted, that's just the first step on getting the MC finalized, but I'm fairly sure I can think of something while going through the actual story. So... cheers!