Thoughts on Lolbertarianism?

[The Ugly One]

Isn't that liteerally just neoliberalism? Which is the CURRENT dominant ideology? kind of what turned me off from libertarianism in the first place. Actual libertarianism isn't applicable in real life, so they advocate for a watered down version, which is essentially neoliberalism.

Neoliberalism includes central banking, unlimited gibs for niggers & "refugees," government controls on speech, foreverwar, heavy regulation on what kinds of products you can buy, and embargoes on countries that don't participate. Libertarians don't want that stuff, either. Of course, libertarians would be fine with all of that if the world's governments were corporations instead.

libertarianism is the ideology of people that think "Why do we even have laws against scams, I'd never fall for them!"

Good summary.

The libertarian component fueled the Tea Party that brought the GOP base to where it is now.

No. Libertarians cannot claim credit for the fact the majority of the country was against Obamacare, or the grassroots organization against it. Libertarians, who make up maybe 3%-5% of the party, participated, but it wasn't your gig. Libertarians try to claim credit every time somebody, from a rank-and-file voter to a judge, doesn't embrace full-on socialism, as if it wasn't for Murray Rothbard's nerdly little noodlings on free-market justice, everyone would just be singing the Internationale now.

I've read far more Rothbard than I really should admit.

Also you're using "corportaism" as some kind of a strawman argument like libertarians are all fatcat bankers or some shit.

No, I'm using "corporatism" to describe the many years I have of experience with libertarians insisting that it's absolutely fine for giant corporations to censor the internet, target individuals, flood towns with third worlders, fire people because of their politics, etc, because Muh Private Company, with zero concern for what that means, practically, in the hands of oligopolies. In practice, a libertarian will defend anything a corporation does to sabotage society using the power of its assets and say that any measure we could take to stop it - like passing immigration laws to stop a corporation from flooding a town with cheap, criminally inclined, socialist-voting Guatemalans - is "socialism" or "statism" or whatever.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

No, I'm using "corporatism" to describe the many years I have of experience with libertarians insisting that it's absolutely fine for giant corporations to censor the internet, target individuals, flood towns with third worlders, fire people because of their politics, etc, because Muh Private Company, with zero concern for what that means, practically, in the hands of oligopolies.

"Build your own Twitter", "build your own payment processor", etc. Absolute retard scum.

So your strategy for stopping the evil government from using big business as an intermediary to attack people is to strengthen the government's ability to do it out right itself without an intermediary? Yeah, that's not insane or anything.

Attacking people is good, the government just needs to be steered towards the correct targets and disallowed from shifting their aim.

 

[Meat Target]

Also you're using "corportaism" as some kind of a strawman argument like libertarians are all fatcat bankers or some shit.

"Real socialism libertarianism has never been tried!"

There were people some years ago who went to South America and tried to found their own Galt's Gulch. It didn't last.

Because again, what principles does libertarianism actually hold to? What is there to be found in libertarianism that cannot be found elsewhere, without also subscribing to a plethora of asinine positions, such as 'Lol, why does the function of the society I live in affect me?'

It's the Joe Rogan ethos: go along to get along, no matter how insane the idea, as long as "fuck you got mine."

 

[Kumquat]

While our Country remains untainted with the Principles and manners, which are now producing desolation in so many Parts of the World: while she continues Sincere and incapable of insidious and impious Policy: We shall have the Strongest Reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned Us by Providence. But should the People of America, once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another and towards foreign nations, which assumes the Language of Justice and moderation while it is practicing Iniquity and Extravagance; and displays in the most captivating manner the charming Pictures of Candour frankness & sincerity while it is rioting in rapine and Insolence: this Country will be the most miserable Habitation in the World. Because We have no Government armed with Power capable of contending with human Passions unbridled by morality and Religion. Avarice, Ambition, Revenge or Galantry, would break the strongest Cords of our Constitution as a Whale goes through a Net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

- John Adams, letter to the Massachusetts Militia, 1798.

The concept of liberty and freedom can only work when the people within such a country are moral and virtuous. This is what many libertarians - and indeed most conservatives, too - fail to grasp. Liberty and freedom are great ideas on paper, but they can only operate effectively when the people are guided by principles of morality, righteousness, and virtue. If the people are not moral and virtuous, that very same freedom and liberty can very easily be turned to evil and destruction, which is kind of what we're seeing today. So many CEOs and entrepreneurs, politicians and judges, businessmen and workers, who do have freedom and liberty, but abuse it for evil ends, to deprive the people around them of their own liberties, and to fling our country ever farther into the depths of debauchery and despondency.

The Founding Fathers knew this; they wrote about it extensively. The constitution would only last so long as the people maintained their morality and faith in God. Once those things began to wane, the rest of the country went with them. Modern-day libertarians do not understand this, and likely they will never understand it, as the very idea of moral guidance and religion seems antithetical to the ideas of liberty and freedom. It is a paradox of sorts, that in order to have freedom, you must limit that freedom with virtue and ethics.

The good man, though a slave, is free; the wicked, though he reigns, is a slave, and not the slave of a single man, but - what is worse - the slave of as many masters as he has vices.

-St. Augustine, The City of God Against the Pagans (Book IV), 426.

 

[Pentex]

I'm talking about the "Gay couples defend their marijuana farms with machine guns" people. I vibe with their "Screw off and leave me alone" attitude, but over time they devolved into that meme where someone is standing over the gadsden snake (Like the snake is between their feet) with a caption saying "this is fine" (since they're technically not treading on them), and anyone who disagrees is actually a republican larping as a libertarian.

There are different strains of lolberts (like COVID), but nearly all of them are theoryfags to some extent, sort of in the same vein as the communist 'thinker', their attitude being that 'I'll do the writing and someone else will do the shooting.' Econo-lolberts are as materialist as the commies they claim to oppose; most adamantly refuse to recognize borders, language and culture as having any genuine significance (Reasonoids), and believe if we just export enough jeans and rock n' roll to the third-world/authoritarian shitholes, they'll become liberalized. There are also the hedonist/degenerate lolberts who think that COOMING/SMOKING is the peak of liberty and that no law should interfere or even inconvenience their own or anyone else's self-destruction.

Ultimately, lolberts are politically irrelevant as most of them are too inept to wield political power or too cowardly to actually seek it out (muh NAP, muh government is violence).

 

[Mothra1988]

Attacking people is good, the government just needs to be steered towards the correct targets and disallowed from shifting their aim.

Great fanfiction. What could go wrong? I'm sure Robespierre always thought, "Wow, watching people I don't like get their heads chopped off sure is fun! Surely, this will never happen to me!"

 

[The Last Stand]

To me, libertarians just want free reign to do whatever they want, whenever they want in the name of "liberty." In reality, that ideology is founded and supported on reckless disregard for law and order, common courtesy and most importantly, moral principles. Check out their website in question:

We’re Taking the Capital by Storm​

With an unapologetically anarchic spirit, we’ve defied the establishment by assembling a lineup of speakers who challenge the status quo and champion true freedom. We’re lining up promotions that symbolize our rejection of government control, offering attendees a taste of defiance. The debates, a battleground for radical ideas, will ignite the flames of rebellion in every heart present. And as the establishment trembles, we’ll raise a defiant toast at the reception for our chosen presidential and vice-presidential candidates, heralding the dawn of a new era of individual autonomy and liberty. This convention will stand as a testament to the indomitable spirit of libertarianism, ready to shatter the chains of oppression.

Now, how can one achieve ultimate liberty and freedom without any protection to preserve said freedom?

 

[RybenZ999]

Great fanfiction. What could go wrong? I'm sure Robespierre always thought, "Wow, watching people I don't like get their heads chopped off sure is fun! Surely, this will never happen to me!"

Can't believe I'm agreeing with a Mothra post but here we are. "I want Daddy Government to go after people I don't like" is an unbelievably retarded take.

 

[The Foxtrot]

To me, libertarians just want free reign to do whatever they want, whenever they want in the name of "liberty." In reality, that ideology is founded and supported on reckless disregard for law and order, common courtesy and most importantly, moral principles. Check out their website in question:

It's literally just a teenager's mindset turned into a political ideology.

Now, how can one achieve ultimate liberty and freedom without any protection to preserve said freedom?

It's a question I've asked more than one self-professed anarchist/lolbertarian -
What keeps me from pointing my rifle at you and enslaving you? Or tying you/your wife/your sister/your daughter(s) up and having my way with them in front of you?
Oh, you're relying on some magical 'non aggression principle' and chanting about how you aren't violent and you're peaceful to keep you safe?
I've got news for you, some people are violent and don't mind using the use or threat of using force of arms to achieve a goal. Whether that be survival, a grander socio-political agenda, or just pure sadism, the guys with the guns and will/training to use them are going to look at your "non aggression principle" and see a massive neon "VICTIMIZE ME!" sign over your heads.

And before one says "durr ah haz mah gunz 2!", guns are not magical talismans to ward off Bad Guys with, they are tools. And without proper training and the willpower to use those tools effectively, you're no better off in possession of a gun than you are being disarmed.

 

[The Last Stand]

It's literally just a teenager's mindset turned into a political ideology.

Democrats and Republicans are mom and dad, respectively.

It's a question I've asked more than one self-professed anarchist/lolbertarian -
What keeps me from pointing my rifle at you and enslaving you? Or tying you/your wife/your sister/your daughter(s) up and having my way with them in front of you?
Oh, you're relying on some magical 'non aggression principle' and chanting about how you aren't violent and you're peaceful to keep you safe?

It's quite funny that the laws they oppose in principle would protect them against personal tyranny.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

Great fanfiction. What could go wrong? I'm sure Robespierre always thought, "Wow, watching people I don't like get their heads chopped off sure is fun! Surely, this will never happen to me!"

Can't believe I'm agreeing with a Mothra post but here we are. "I want Daddy Government to go after people I don't like" is an unbelievably retarded take.

"A thing can be used negatively, so it must be prohibited." is a wild take, I assume you guys are massively pro gun control?

 

[Mothra1988]

"A thing can be used negatively, so it must be prohibited." is a wild take, I assume you guys are massively pro gun control?

>durr self defense and political murder are the same thing!
>you didn't like the commie gulags, you must not want to own guns

 

[Shidoen]

It’s less about restricting the governments overreach on people and more about being a libertine.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

>durr self defense and political murder are the same thing!
>you didn't like the commie gulags, you must not want to own guns

Your argument is that the system of government is easily corrupted to work against people, by people, but that the system of individual people, which are themselves apparently so easily corrupted, is inured against it; because it somehow is and you really want it to be.
Libertarianism is for spastics.
EDIT: Would it make you change your mind if the gulag guards all said 'Sponsored by Coca Cola.' and it was 100% privately owned and funded?

 

[Mothra1988]

Your argument is that the system of government is easily corrupted to work against people, by people

It is right now, you dumb larping faggot. Have you been not paying attention what they did to Trump?

that the system of individual people, which are themselves apparently so easily corrupted, is inured against it; because it somehow is and you really want it to be.
Libertarianism is for spastics.

I'm not an anarchist. I think a government should exist, but it should mostly exist to protect liberties, not boss you around because you're some queer /pol/ expat with a le ironic Nazi avatar in 2023 with a BDSM political festish that masturbates over the idea of the government dominating you.

And before it's repeated for the 100th time, yes I concede things like Blackrock/Vanguard are a problem. I'm not a complete ideologue and find huge soulless corporate interests to be the least of my concern in regard to which libertarianism principals should be enacted. When corporate interests start crushing invidiaul libertty and economic freedom on a micro level for individual people, they should be curtailed, but that should be one of the only reasons for government involvment, protecting inidivdual rights.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

It is right now, you dumb larping faggot. Have you been not paying attention what they did to Trump?

It is right now, because people that should have been actively and aggressively curtailed, were not, and were allowed to worm their way into power.

I'm not an anarchist. I think a government should exist, but it should mostly exist to protect liberties, not boss you around because you're some queer /pol/ expat with a le ironic Nazi avatar in 2023 with a BDSM political festish that masturbates over the idea of the government dominating you.

And before it's repeated for the 100th time, yes I concede things like Blackrock/Vanguard are a problem. I'm not a complete ideologue and find huge soulless corporate interests to be the least of my concern in regard to which libertarianism principals should be enacted. When corporate interests start crushing invidiaul libertty and economic freedom on a micro level for individual people, they should be curtailed, but that should be one of the only reasons for government involvment, protecting inidivdual rights.

Then to be blunt, you're not really a libertarian, you're just a mealy mouthed run of the mill liberal from the early 90's. Since your political ideology is so diluted that it may as well be any other form of every other ideology that people mildly adhere to. You could call yourself a small party communist, or a 'Sensible' green with the exact same beliefs. Which bleeds all the way back around to "You can want individual freedom and responsibility, without subscribing to the other retarded things that libertarians do." You could even be a post strasserist, pre conflict Nazi and still have those beliefs.
Your own real defence of libertarianism seems to be 'It's fine if you ignore all the dumb stuff, and just take the few crumbs that I like!'. Which sure, objectively that's a solid defence, but only because that's a solid defence of everything and anything lol.

 

[Mothra1988]

It is right now, because people that should have been actively and aggressively curtailed, were not, and were allowed to worm their way into power.

Okay, so you're conceding I'm right. Great job, Einstein. Next explain how to claw that back in the exact opposite direction without fed-posting. Good luck, retard.

Then to be blunt, you're not really a libertarian,

I'm not surprised someone with a Nazi avatar is surprised that normal people tend to not be complete wackadoodle political ideologues, or that you are too stupid to actually retort anything I said and went on another Don Quixote type strawman expedition. Imagine being so stupid you were actually brainwahsed by stormfags on /pol/ mad at the Ron Paul posters to believe the garbage currently in your skull.

 

[Johan Schmidt]

Okay, so you're conceding I'm right. Great job, Einstein. Next explain how to claw that back in the exact opposite direction without fed-posting. Good luck, retard.

I'm saying that the current government is filled with people that should not have been allowed to enter it. There was no way of stopping this on the individual libertarian level; you would have to use the horror of government to do that. I would fix it by inventing a time machine, going back and not letting them into society, let alone government. Failing that, it's not really possible. You have to bunker down, get ready for everything to turn to shit, and prepare so that in several generations your childrens children aren't fertiliser. So that they can form a decent society with a decent government.

I'm not surprised someone with a Nazi avatar is surprised that normal people tend to not be complete wackadoodle political ideologues, or that you are too stupid to actually retort anything I said and went on another Don Quixote type strawman expedition. Imagine being so stupid you were actually brainwahsed by stormfags on /pol/ mad at the Ron Paul posters to believe the garbage currently in your skull.

I read and retorted what you actually said, which was "I do not like government overreach into things I want the government to stay out of, but I am okay with it in things I am okay with them interfering." Which isn't really a political thesis, as it is you wanting to bake and eat a cake, and also have it with you. Because your political ideology is that of a college student complaining about his dad messing with his weed supply. What part of it cannot be found, without the baggage associated with libertarianism in general in other ideologies? What makes it any different from Blairite neo liberalism?

What part of the anti state critique above, would you disagree with?
EDIT: Sorry for the legibility there, hit post before I meant to lol.

 

[The Last Stand]

EDIT: Would it make you change your mind if the gulag guards all said 'Sponsored by Coca Cola.' and it was 100% privately owned and funded?

Why would libertarians be pro corporation? Wouldn't that go against their supposed interests? Say a corporation buys their land, now their liberties are sanctioned by that brand with practical impunity.

 

[Angry Alt Right Nerd]

Great fanfiction. What could go wrong? I'm sure Robespierre always thought, "Wow, watching people I don't like get their heads chopped off sure is fun! Surely, this will never happen to me!"