Thoughts on Orania? - Orania, the Controversial "White's Only" Town in the Middle of South Africa.

[Cat Phuckers]

So, to give a primer to anybody not in the know, Orania is a town located in Gauteng, South Africa, whose founders proclaim that it is a refuge for the Afrikaner people. The founders of Orania are not opposed to Black or multiracial rule of South Africa as a political entity. They do, however, wish to expand the rights of Afrikaners as an ethnic group and develop a self-reliant parallel society where Afrikaans culture can prosper. Although the town is not allowed to racially discriminate, they can, in accordance with the current interpretation of Section 31(1a) of the Bill of Rights within the 1996 South African Constitution, freely associate with others on the basis of culture or language and exclude people outside of said language or culture.

Orania has continued to grow in population, area, and economy, despite massive decline occurring everywhere else in South Africa, and is even generating its own power (while Eskom, the national power company of South Africa, collapses, leaving many South Africans without power for up to 12 hours a day). One notable phenomena in Orania is that residents principally do not hire non-Afrikaners for contract work, landscaping, or as maids and nannies, contrary to the norm across most White South African communities. I'm not sure if they're contractually obligated not to, or if most Orania residents just agree with the principle of self-reliance.

Many people, especially foreign Whites who feel for the Afrikaner cause, are optimistic about the growth of Orania. Afrikaners are more split on the issue due to Orania's geography, the basis for its existence, and rumors about Orania preferring to welcome liberal Afrikaners and some non-Afrikaners who have an affinity for Afrikaans culture. So far, Orania is the only town which openly boasts an Afrikaans-only status, but this could change.

I already wrote a lot of words elsewhere and am going to take a position which will likely not be expected, but I would like to hear from you guys first before I post my thoughts. What do you think of Orania, the principles it was founded upon, and the impact it has had and will have on South Africa?

 

[KittyGremlin]

Oh, that's nothing new. Back in the day it was huge and we used to call it Europe.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

If they ever want nuclear weapons, my cousin in Israel can help out.

 

[JamusActimus]

"Orania prints its own money-like coupons which can be used to purchase in its stores "

That's interesting I don't think I've seen that in a modern city.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

who doesn't love Whikanda

but even sealand had their own currency and power so it's not like they actually have done something impressive.

 

[Tablet County]

Oh, that's nothing new. Back in the day it was huge and we used to call it Europe.

Wrong! Europe had Italians!

 

[DiscoRodeo]

I already wrote a lot of words elsewhere and am going to take a position which will likely not be expected, but I would like to hear from you guys first before I post my thoughts. What do you think of Orania, the principles it was founded upon, and the impact it has had and will have on South Africa?

They are literally existing only under the good will of a racist kleptocratic police state that hates them, but currently follows some protocol of liberal rule of law (though barely).

What do you think will happen to this enclave if shit really does hit the fan?

 

[Cat Phuckers]

My opinion on the Orania question is that Orania is at best a nothing burger, especially considering nobody has put in the effort to replicate it anywhere else in South Africa or Namibia (which is even Whiter per capita than SA and used to be part of SA until 1990), and at worst, a force which turns Afrikaners into complacent liberals. Orania admits that the legal basis for its existence is solely reliant on the Constitutional Court's belief that the South African Constitution guarantees all cultures the right to be sovereign and exclusionary. It relies on a legal framework based on a short passage in the South African Bill of Rights, one which can easily be repealed via constitutional amendments, which are a lot easier to pass in a country where 80% of the population are Blacks with supremacist beliefs. Alternatively, it can simply be reinterpreted by the all-Black Constitutional Court. Orania can only legally reject people on the basis that they are not enough of an Afrikaner, not on the basis of race. Afrikanerhood is something that obviously becomes up for debate and more subjective when race is taken out of the equation, especially when you take into account that most Coloureds and some Blacks natively speak Afrikaans and may opportunistically try and succeed at infiltrating Orania through lawfare.

I have also heard rumors that AWB supporters and Afrikaners who are considered too "separatist" or "militant" are not allowed to buy homes in Orania. So, essentially, the population is likely to be comprised of what one could aptly call "racialist liberals", who when push comes to shove will probably give up like the National Party did in the 90s. Liberal politics has never been a big thing amongst Afrikaners, and most liberals in SA are English-speakers of British or Jewish descent, as well as Indians and some Coloureds, but Orania is a liberal project based on a liberal principle. The founding family of Orania, the Boshoff family, is actually famously liberal, even more so than most residents.

Orania appears to be a project with which the powers that be have no problem, with the EFF and I think one ANC councillor being the only dissenters. It has received visits from Mandela, Zuma, Mbeki, Malema (before he was kicked out of the ANC and became what he is now), and more. Representatives of Orania also come off to be as liberals, since they proclaim that all communities in SA should have sovereignty. I guarantee the newly formed MK Party (named after the militant terrorist wing of the ANC) is probably going to have a take in-between the ANC and EFF in terms of tolerance and radicality, though I don't think Zuma has spoken on Orania since MK's foundation. If you are an American, Canadian, Australian, Kiwi, etc. who lives around the nonwhite indigenous peoples of your respective country, you should understand fully the issue with this and wish that the political entities granted to "indigenous" nonwhites be abolished or downsized immensely. Imagine if in America we granted Blacks indigenous status and let them stay unconditionally despite them coming here later and being a big pain in the ass (something which is true of SA Bantus, too). This is what White liberals in SA do.

The biggest issue with Orania insofar as how people outside of SA discuss it is this:
Everyone points to Orania and uses it as an excuse to get comfortable and rest on their laurels. It is definitionally and clearly a Potemkin village. Commentators all but say, "Oh, Orania exists. Afrikaners are a lot safer now."
Many stupid Afrikaners feel this way, too. The Western Cape secessionist movement (#Wexit) has also caused many Whites to believe liberal rhetoric about cultural rights and nonracialism, because they think they will have a multiracial paradise once they are no longer under the thumb of the ANC. Movements which are not explicitly focused on retaking SA for the benefit of Whites are movements which are based around casually accepting defeat and grovelling to Blacks, who only see our weakness as something to take advantage of.

Whites outside SA don't realize how small, unpopulated, and poorly-located Orania is. It is in a Coloured-majority (Coloureds are not an existential threat to Whites, for the record, just a criminal burden) area of Gauteng, which is 84% Black. The Western Cape, the Whitest administrative division in SA, has no formal equivalent to Orania, and if Western Cape Afrikaners started such projects I guarantee you they would be struck down, especially if they refused to employ nonwhite labor like Oranians supposedly do. A lot of Afrikaners are insulted by the increasingly common sentiment amongst foreign Whites that they should move to Orania to be safe. Afrikaners bled, sweat, cried, and died to defend the entirety of South Africa and South West Africa (now "Namibia"), and they do not want to move from their homes across the nation to go to Gauteng and live in a town run by liberals in some backwater.

The only ways for Whites to regain their strength and power in SA is for militant rhetoric to return, a la Eugene Terre'blanche and the AWB (which was very popular in the 90s). This whole "Live and let live" hippy crap isn't going to win nonwhites over, and it only makes Afrikaners weaker and less likely to bat for their own people. Indeed, nothing will win the Blacks over, which is why it's wrong to concede on one's principles in an attempt to win their favor or respect.

They are literally existing only under the good will of a racist kleptocratic police state that hates them, but currently follows some protocol of liberal rule of law (though barely).

What do you think will happen to this enclave if shit really does hit the fan?

Yep. If it weren't for an up for debate interpretation of this Section 31(1) out of the South African Bill of Rights within the Constitution guaranteeing them freedom of association with like communities (which entails freedom to dissociate from others), an interpretation and passage which could easily be changed by the Constitutional Court, Orania would be abolished.

Cultural, religious and linguistic communities
31. (1) Persons belonging to a cultural, religious or linguistic community may not be denied
the right, with other members of that community—
(a) to enjoy their culture, practise their religion and use their language; and
(b) to form, join and maintain cultural, religious and linguistic associations and
other organs of civil society.
(2) The rights in subsection (1) may not be exercised in a manner inconsistent with any
provision of the Bill of Rights.

"Orania prints its own money-like coupons which can be used to purchase in its stores "

That's interesting I don't think I've seen that in a modern city.

Essentially, the logic for this policy is that if Blacks or Coloureds rob a house in Orania and steal all their Oras, they are of absolutely no use to the Blacks since they do not patronize stores in Orania. Also, Oras are pegged to the South African Rand, so as the economy declines, investing in the Ora has no impact on one's spending power in Orania's businesses.

 

[MajinGoku]

Dont really care, as long as they own the property they have the right to do whatever they want. If black people wanted to the same thing I would have no problem.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

The only ways for Whites to regain their strength and power in SA is for militant rhetoric to return, a la Eugene Terre'blanche and the AWB (which was very popular in the 90s)

This sounds like Pali/Hamas shit. Good luck, you've already lost your country, if you start shooting at random black people and committing terrorist attacks, youre quite literally going to just get a boot on your neck and a mob waiting after that.

The only ways for Arabs to regain their strength and power in Palestine is for militant rhetoric to return, a la Gods resistance and the PLO (which was very popular in the 90s). This whole "Live and let live" hippy crap isn't going to win back our land from the jews, and it only makes arabs weaker and less likely to bat for their own people. Indeed, nothing will get our land back from the jews, which is why it's wrong to concede on one's principles in an attempt to win their favor or respect.

Literally, replace white with Palestinian and you can see how well this is going to turn out.

Don't mistake my comment of

What do you think will happen to this enclave if shit really does hit the fan?

with advocating to make shit hit the fan.

Anyone with a brain would realize that South Africa is not a failing state. Its a lost state. Anyone past that with minimum intelligence has left the nation. If you want to fedpost about committing terrorist actions against black people in South Africa because 'liberalism doesn't work' be my guest.

 

[Cat Phuckers]

This sounds like Pali/Hamas shit. Good luck, you've already lost your country, if you start shooting at random black people and committing terrorist attacks, youre quite literally going to just get a boot on your neck and a mob waiting after that.

Literally, replace white with Palestinian and you can see how well this is going to turn out.

Yeah, Israel is having a lot of trouble so far. It's not good. Blacks aren't even half as competent as Palestinians or Israelis. They continuously lose battles in Southern Africa when they face Whites. They only "won" when the Europeans starting making concessions for fear of sanction or economic collapse. South Africa was beating the Blacks down until F.W. de Klerk took power and went on a concession spree because he thought a full blown civil war wasn't worth it (hint: it totally would have been), and after Salazar died, SA was low on international allies. If leadership is competent enough, I think the Whites can kick the Blacks' asses. Also, the Whites became reliant on Black labor and integrated Blacks into their economy, which gave the Blacks an upper hand politically despite being barred from politics, but like in the case of Orania, the Whites can always just stop hiring their racial enemies.

 

[The Ugly One]

One notable phenomena in Orania is that residents principally do not hire non-Afrikaners for contract work, landscaping, or as maids and nannies, contrary to the norm across most White South African communities. I'm not sure if they're contractually obligated not to, or if most Orania residents just agree with the principle of self-reliance.

For the first time in history, a group of white people is picking their own cotton. Let's see how this works out.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Yeah, Israel is having a lot of trouble so far. It's not good. Blacks aren't even half as competent as Palestinians or Israelis. They continuously lose battles in Southern Africa when they face Whites. They only "won" when the Europeans starting making concessions for fear of sanction or economic collapse. South Africa was beating the Blacks down until F.W. de Klerk took power and went on a concession spree because he thought a full blown civil war wasn't worth it (hint: it totally would have been), and after Salazar died, SA was low on international allies. If leadership is competent enough, I think the Whites can kick the Blacks' asses. Also, the Whites became reliant on Black labor and integrated Blacks into their economy, which gave the Blacks an upper hand politically despite being barred from politics, but like in the case of Orania, the Whites can always just stop hiring their racial enemies.

I get it, power to you, start an open race war in south africa with all the black people and the world watching. You can totally win it and push all the black people out or make them non-citizens again or whatever it is you havn't quite thought of yet. Try and pull off a thousand Dylan Roofs. I come to the farms to laugh at lolcows, this is right up there with one of their ideas.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

I don't really have a problem with people freely forming their own communities as long as they follow the country's laws.

 

[Niall Meanwhile]

My opinion of Orania is that they have a shit flag and should do better.

It will amount to nothing. The story is being publicised internationally for a few years now to stir outrage and that's about it. The only semi-meaningful impact I have perceived from it existing is that people from elsewhere who know Orania's a thing will come to you and ask you about it in an "explain yourself" manner, as if I sculpted their Verwoerd statue with my own hands (or at least I'm there polishing it daily while singing "TO THY CALL WE SHALL NOT FALTER" or something). Proportions be damned, there's a lowkey German shame-like feeling to it.

Anyone past that with minimum intelligence has left the nation.

It's not always as easy as saying it for a number of reasons. But boer maak 'n plan I reckon.

 

[The Hardest R]

The moment Orania becomes too successful, the South African government will step in and will have the full backing of the west to do so. If Orania resists, the SAS will get sent in. There is no way Orania can be allowed to succeed.

 

[millais]

Orania is no Volkstaat. More like Volkstadt! Or maybe even Volksdorp!

Better to focus on Western Cape, no chance to recover the rest of the country. At least there is Afrikaans-speaking plurality in Western Cape due to the Coloureds.

 

[Taser Confetti]

I wish nothing but the best for them. That being said, anything within the borders of South Africa is a lost cause. You're surrounded by an ocean of kaffirs who want you raped and murdered to death and you're a couple days of ramble rousing from that turning a nog fantasy into a reality.

There is no long term future - migrate to another white country.

 

[Spud]

"Orania prints its own money-like coupons which can be used to purchase in its stores "

That's interesting I don't think I've seen that in a modern city.

What do you think EBT cards are?

 

[JamusActimus]

What do you think EBT cards are?

Euhhh... nothing? I did not know what they were before I Googled it.