I shall give Tim credit for pushing back on the latest attempt to replace the tried & true "racist", "bigot", "sexist", with woke right. It just the next in a long line of labels designed to force someone to rebut the accusation, not continue the conversation. Unfortunately, this has earned the ire of those pushing it:
(TPM post
archive)
(Joel Berry post
archive)
(Seth Dillon post
archive)
(James Lindsay post
archive)
Tim had Myron Gaines, of
The Fresh & Fit podcast, & Adam Johnson, the Lectern Guy, as the guests.
Elad, & Phil, were the co-hosts.
This one had two big arguments, so clips aplenty.
Clip Collection:
-Myron trots out his best Uncle Tom performance, advocating for repealing the 19th Amendment & blacks' right to vote. Tim argues for attaching more responsibilities to winnow down the voting populace:
-Myron brings up his theory that Anti-Israel content proliferating on TikTok was the cause of the bipartisan ban. Tim cuts him off, but promises to return to it, later:
-Shockingly, Tim kept his word & returned to the topic. Not shockingly, Tim & Elad rushed to deflect & deny the points Myron raised. Tim argues that TikTok algorithmically pushed anti-Israel content. Naturally, Elad conflates criticism of Israel with antisemitism, by arguing that claiming "the Jews did it" is more "sexy" than accepting a Donald Trump donor is invested in TikTok (specifically
ByteDance) swayed him away from banning the app, after getting money from him:
Elad, Phil, & Tim half-jokingly credit "the Jews" with taking down leftist congressmen Jamaal Bowman & Cori Bush. Myron tries to argue that the users on platforms, like TikTok & "X", lean anti-Israel, but Tim declares that he is in a bubble. Myron returns the favour, & Tim responds by saying a poll he did on "X" showed 70-80% support for Israel, which proves it, because Myron is only seeing the vocal minority "ratioing" pro-Zionist accounts. After bringing up an article noting the Anti-Israel aspect pressuring congressmen to ban TikTok, Tim tries to argue Israeli & U.S. interests happen to align on this. Phil asks Myron what he means when saying Israel directs U.S. foreign policy. Myron uses the 2003 Gulf War as an example, but for some reason, Phil thinks he is referencing Operation Desert Storm, in 1991:
Myron argues that Middle Eastern foreign policy "is 100% dictated by Israel". Tim argues that supporting the mujahedeen, in Afghanistan, was not at Israel's behest, despite being in the Middle Eastern theatre, which Myron concedes. Phil claims the 2003 invasion was a result of
Saddam Hussein attempting to assassinate George W. Bush's father. Tim contends that it is U.S. policy to surround & defeat Iran, which Myron states was penned by "dual citizen, neocons". Elad & Tim ask that Myron name some of them. He rattles off "The Wolfowitz, the Perles, the Feifes...Bill Kristol". I checked these claims, & only found
this list, but a cursory look shows these men appear not to have Israeli citizenship, but have had
questionable history with, or
outsized support for the Jewish State. Tim & Elad use this to push back on Myron's earlier claims. Myron retorts that they demonstrate dual loyalties, & their pushing for involvement with Israel has been to the detriment of the United States. In the middle of explaining Osama Bin Laden's ire at U.S. forces being based in Saudi Arabia, to fight Saddam Hussein, Tim interjects to say "beat him off" was a poor choice of words.
Tim concedes that providing military aid does motivate people to attack the United States. Tim agrees with cutting aid, citing his normal rebuke that Ukraine took more aide, "in two years" than Israel did over fifty years. Though this appears to not be true,
when adjusted for inflation. Myron argues Ukraine has not spied upon the United States, or stolen nuclear weapons from it, as Israel has, in the past. This claim comes from
a 1974 CIA report, alleging that the uranium used by Israel for nuclear weapons was stolen. Myron appends that "the Zionists" wanted John F. Kennedy dead, & were part of the plot to kill him, due to
his opposition to Israel's nuclear programme.
Tim brings up the Ukrainian flag waving, warm reception for Vladimir Zelenskyy, & despite
efforts to undermine Trump's 2016 run. Tim pushes responsibility for U.S. policy to "wealthy special interests" & highlights how
Eric Ciaramella (whom Tim continues to not name, out of fear that it may get him penalised) leaked the phone call with Zelenskyy, which set of the Trump impeachment. Tim, ultimately, cuts the conversation, because there is too much to discuss, as it is "200 years of history". Phil offers an olive branch to Myron, saying AIPAC should register as a foreign agent, which upsets Elad, before Tim moves to the next segment:
-Another big blow-up happens, over the concept of free speech & "X". Phil argues freedom of speech does not include crude verbiage, it is for conveying "controversial ideas in a delicate way". Elad, Myron, & Tim all agree this is not free speech. This agreement breaks down, once Myron notes Elon Musk taking away premium from some accounts, in the wake of the H-1B visa debacle, which de-boosts the posts made by them:
Tim thinks this is fine, while Myron connects freedom of reach to freedom of speech, on "X", as Elon set the standard as the 1st Amendment of the United States. Tim argues that "X" is a service, & people are not entitled to be promoted upon it, so even if you are de-boosted, you are not being shadow-banned, just not advertised:
Tim claims that Myron signed on to premium, despite Elon "never unbanned some accounts", & should have known better. Myron lists of several prominent examples of Elon restoring Alex Jones, & Nick Fuentes, challenging Tim to name some accounts which were not. Tim fails to name even one. Tim argues it is "communism" to demand freedom of reach. Myron says if you are without any reach, speech is meaningless, which is why he takes umbrage at Elon's arbitrary application of removing premium & de-boosting accounts that disagree with him. Tim asks if you have freedom of reach on a street corner, & if it should be legal to have an amplifier, to prove his point. Tim claims Myron is "personally aggrieved", which is why he is upset. Myron says losing verification makes reach "drop precipitously". Tim asks "Can people still follow you?". Tim tries to bring in Adam & Phil to share their thoughts:
Phil still holds to the way something is said makes the difference. Tim finally finds someone not unbanned (David Duke), & tries to push back on super-chats comparing his no reach position to de-banking someone. To Tim, Mastercard & Visa are monopolistic, as to be "a privately-owned public entity", while social media has alternatives to choose from, such as Rumble. Myron argues demonitisation causes a chilling effect, which Phil takes issue with. Phil claims Scott Horton & Dave Smith, who are not banned, but speak eloquently on the issue of Israel. Tim argues advertisers are to blame, not Elon. Myron brings out "left-wing watchdog groups" lobbying platforms to remove people. Tim says there is also sock puppet accounts doing this, & scare companies with a deluge of messages:
This leads to platforms siding with advertisers. Myron specifies that, unlike YouTube, et al., "X" was advertised to people as a free speech platform. Also, Myron notes people do not just talk about Israel, but those "critical of Jewish power" that get censored, regardless. Tim says that when someone is "crass, crude" in their arguments only makes them look more wrong. Tim returns to how the racist posts made against H-1B visa accounts was a false flag. Myron says he agrees, as he is a "free speech absolutist". The panel spends several minutes helping him understand that the phrase means absolute free speech, not what he thinks it mean:
Tim has to lay out the showing troon propaganda to children to explain why Myron is not a free speech absolutist. Myron contends that common sense should bear out what he meant with free speech absolutism. Tim lays out how emotional damages via hate speech could see it banned, even under the 1st Amendment, as it causes a form of damages. Tim finally cuts this off, with Myron says Elon needs to stand by his free speech declarations:
-Tim's amazing management skills are on full display. The beanie boy says there was a members-only show called
The Green Room, which was a pre-show stream with the panel & Branch Timidians that just stopped six months ago. Tim says that because he stopped paying attention to it, people stopped doing it, the manager stopped pursuing it, & no one told Tim, so he had no idea it ended. Myron offers to stay longer, to do an
apertif version, but Tim says no one is around to run it:
