Culture Tinder and Bumble are tanking because they treat men badly, Grindr CEO said - Dating apps have been accused of weaponizing men’s frustration to make them pay more rather than helping them find love.


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“I’m not even their target audience,” Arison – who is gay – said. “But still, as a guy, I’m offended.”

Dating apps like Tinder and Bumble are neglecting their male users, Grindr CEO George Arison charged this week.

“One of the things that strikes me about how Bumble and Tinder approach the world is that frankly, they don’t treat 70% of their users very well,” Arison said in an interview with Polina Pompliano, founder of media company The Profile. The two were speaking at Fortune’s annual Brainstorm Tech conference in Park City, Utah.

Men outnumber women roughly 3-to-1 on both Bumble and Tinder, yet those apps don’t try to improve or smooth men’s often-awkward experience, Arison said. Even though men are the ones who more often pay for premium services, he said, their experience remains frustrating, leading many to quit online dating.

That exodus pans out in research: 79% of college students and other Gen Zers – in the age group that is by far dating apps’ largest audience – are forgoing regular dating app usage for in-person interactions, according to an Axios and Generation Lab study from October 2023.

In light of that decline, apps are “missing an opportunity” to expand their audience, Arison said.

“You have this huge percentage of men who are looking to settle down and looking to find a partner, and they are very captive to the product when they’re there. Why not build a lot of features for them?” Arison asked.

Arison’s not alone in being puzzled. Connell Barrett, founder of coaching site Dating Transformation and a popular dating advisor on Instagram, told Fortune that the features dating apps provide to men don’t actually end up helping them. In his 20 years of advising men, he has never seen men be “more frustrated, fatigued, and just burnt out” with dating apps than now, he said. He attributes this fatigue to an inequality in the app – about 20% of men are getting the majority of matches, a figure that a Hinge analyst leaked, then quickly deleted, in 2017.

“The ones who create a really good, compelling profile, they’re getting most of the matches,” Barrett said. “That means that 80% of the men are really struggling, and these are good, attractive, dateable, amazing men – I know because they’re my clients – and so I would love to see the dating apps take a more democratic view on how to help them.”

That help could come in the form of AI-generated dating advice or a feature that allows men to talk to a dating therapist in the app, Barrett offered. Instead, apps utilize men’s frustration for their own benefit, he said.

Dating apps’ approach is, “we’re going to ask you to upgrade to the top tier membership and give us more money, and maybe that will help you get more matches,” Barrett said. “But that doesn’t work. A problematic profile that is upgraded from gold to platinum is not going to be a more effective profile.”


More money, more matches?

Users of all genders have accused apps like Hinge of “hiding” the most attractive profiles, unless they pay for a premium service. Hinge’s CEO denied that the app has an attractiveness score, but the app does feature “Standout” profiles, which are the ones “getting the most attention” and which a free user would have a harder chance of matching with. You can only reach out to one “Standout” a week, unless you decide to purchase more features.

While Hinge says this makes the dating pool both more efficient and “intentional,” it’s undeniable that the “Standouts” gamifies users’ experience on the app by increasing competition and incentivizing them to pay for upgraded services.

That could be leading to the burnout that Barrett says is impacting men now more than ever.

Initiatives like these prove that executives are only focused on women’s experience, according to Arison. In fact, he added that the way that executives talk about men on earnings calls with investors “is actually really negative, to the point where they’re offensive to them.”

“I’m not even their target audience,” Arison – who is gay – said with a chuckle. “But still, as a guy, I’m offended.”

He didn’t expand more on what he heard on earnings calls. However, comments from a May earning call with Match Group CEO Bernard Kim indicate an extensive focus on women’s experience on dating apps while not mentioning male users.

“Gen Z and women, and women’s experience in particular is our top priority,” Kim said. “They are literally the most critical demographic for all dating apps. We know that women need to feel empowered and respected when they’re on our apps.” (Match Group owns Tinder, Hinge, OKCupid and other dating apps.)

Women report much higher rates of harassment on dating apps than men do, according to a 2020 Pew Research study. But dating apps can improve women’s experience, while also focusing on men, Arison said.

“You can make a great experience for someone without making a bad experience for someone else,” Arison said.

Update, Jul. 19, 2024: This article has been updated to include comments from a Hinge spokesperson.




Timestamp when he answers the question.


Well, he's not wrong, even if he's gay. I've already shared a similar study, but for women. All in all, I think dating apps as a whole are for many other things, but not for dating, and both men and women are realizing that.
 
The dating apps are just another factor in the rapidly degrading relationship between men and women that started with feminism, as pushed by the globalists to cut down wages by doubling the workforce. There's a 4chan post about this and other things that were pushed to increase the labor market, but I can't find it right now.

Fixing the apps won't do much, society is already too broken.
 
Strikes me that the model they're running is a lot like 'ladies night' (or really, any night) at a club, bar, or wherever. Let the foids in free, and then charge thirsty moids for access to a gathering of wahmens - then fleece the simps for all that you can while they're there. Over-priced drinks, bottle service or what have you, being the equivalent of 'boosts' in the algo - all sold on the (false) promise of increasing your odds of scoring some hole. Hilariously, the fag in the article brought up the 80/20 rule, so the same phenomenon occurs on the apps as it does in da club, where the majority of whores chase after a tiny minority of top men, and end up grouped into harems in the VIP section, whilst the rest of the losers are left fighting over hideous dregs. Chads get the pick of the litter, and non-Chads, if they're lucky (and desperate enough), might be able to grab a slampig at closing time (making a break for the exit before the lights go up).

However, just like clubs, they're running out of punters as more and more 'average' guys cotton on to the humiliation ritual, and the rigged nature of the game. Besides, the business would fold if people actually partnered-up into stable, longer-term relationships, so it's in their interest to keep their customers single, because singles are their customers. Perpetual loneliness, dissatisfaction, and a lack of genuine human connection is a feature, not a bug.

Anyway, rather than listen to me wittering on, go watch some hoe_math videos; dude breaks shit down better than I ever could.
 
You have this huge percentage of men who are looking to settle down and looking to find a partner,
They’re hookup apps. Some have a veneer of being dating apps that’s a little thicker than others.
The chances of you finding a life partner in a pool of people who signed up to a hookup app are not high. If you want a partner with specific qualities you need to go where those people hang out. Hookup apps use shallow traits and as such unless you’re niche/perverted/easy/really great looking you’re not getting laid.

It reminds me of this girl I used to know who complained that all the men she dated were awful. Where do you meet them? Oh, clubs. Right… so nice looking girl, but going for men in VIP areas of clubs had got her a succession of idiots. She’s now married to a lovely guy who does something with computers, after finally deciding to not go fishing in clubs.

The real problem is there’s nowhere physical to meet nice people these days. Most people aren’t stunning looking or rich, and they may be perfect for you but it takes a bit of time to get to know someone to find out. Online dating totally precludes that first bit - the gradual getting to know someone in a non-committed environment like a friend group or church. So a huge number of people are being unfairly passed over.
 
Men are the majority of the users of most dating apps and probably an even bigger percentage of their income, being the lion share of those who pay for premium services. But the funny thing is not only do apps treat men, by far their primary source of money, like shit in terms of how their are structured but they also go hard out of their way to suck up to nonpaying women and cultivate a public image of militant feminism and hostility to men.

Theres a shit ton of press releases and campaigns from Tinder, Bumble etc implying and sometimes out right stating how women must be protected from men and how men are pigs and rapists etc. Bumble likes to frame rearrangements in its app as evening out an unfair advantages evil men had and used to gain and advantage over women. Even if its a previous feature they themselves implemented. Its surreal the masochism men who pay for this shit must be into. At least if you're going to blow money on something at minimum it should pretend to like you.
 
Not only that, dating apps only make women's expectations worse. That's the greatest harm they've done. Susie 6 suddenly thinks she's fucking taylor swift because men from all over the country are messaging her, so she won't settle for Stanley 6.

I've actually noticed it back in the day when I used to play music at random events/parties for extra money, when I provided music for singles clubs.

I shit you not, you could see smiles on the women's faces drop to disappointment when they look around them and only see men that need singles clubs.
 
Dating apps are to desperate men what online casinos are to gamba addicts. They are free to openly treat their customers like shit and never give them anything in return. Doesn't matter as long as they keep tugging at the customers reptilian brain. They'll keep coming even when the rational mind tells them it's hopeless.
 
Dating apps used to work great.

In 2010-3 there were several apps that used questions and answers to help you find compatibility and worked amazingly, like okcupid. They asked you as many questions as you could handle, asked you what your answer and your ideal mate's answer would be, and how important it was that your matches had the "right" answer for a particular question. You could actually filter out all people who didn't answer the question "which is bigger, the Earth or the Sun?" correctly.

But they figured out this was horrible for business! People would come onto the site for 1-2 months, find someone to be serious about, and delete, only coming back if/when things didn't work out. They didn't endlessly swipe and "engage" with the website (and it was a website, not an app).

Compatibility-based matching algorithms actually worked great! For helping people find a marriage match, though, not for helping a corporation make money.

I've often wondered if some country could actually produce a national version of a compatibility-based matching algo and provide it as a service instead of as a moneymaker. Everyone's watching fertility rates dry up and crying about it, why not do an end run around these misery machines that literally made themselves worse on purpose at their supposed goals in order to feed the beast?
 
I've often wondered if some country could actually produce a national version of a compatibility-based matching algo and provide it as a service instead of as a moneymaker.
Assuming the means for viable matchmaking do actually exist, it absolutely could be done, and could probably even run profitable - It just can't be done off the backs of venture capital and tech sector profit expectations. You'd need an already wealthy mogul to make it a pet project sort of deal rather than collecting the starting capital from regular investor sources. If it actually works, word would spread pretty well so you wouldn't need a billion dollar marketing push, or hundreds of regional specialists to run those marketing pushes. You'd save a lot in the simplicity of success, if you can actually make it work.
 
Assuming the means for viable matchmaking do actually exist, it absolutely could be done, and could probably even run profitable - It just can't be done off the backs of venture capital and tech sector profit expectations. You'd need an already wealthy mogul to make it a pet project sort of deal rather than collecting the starting capital from regular investor sources. If it actually works, word would spread pretty well so you wouldn't need a billion dollar marketing push, or hundreds of regional specialists to run those marketing pushes. You'd save a lot in the simplicity of success, if you can actually make it work.

No lie, I wish Elon would. It'd be trivial money for a guy like him and he cares about the general mission of having people keep making people.
 
No lie, I wish Elon would. It'd be trivial money for a guy like him and he cares about the general mission of having people keep making people.
There's a non-zero chance he does it as part of his plan to make the X brand a superapp, he wants it to be a one stop for everything eventually. I'm not sure I'd consider matchmaking through what is basically twitter to be an improvement, but the potential is there for the thing to happen.
 
Not only that, dating apps only make women's expectations worse. That's the greatest harm they've done. Susie 6 suddenly thinks she's fucking taylor swift because men from all over the country are messaging her, so she won't settle for Stanley 6.
Messaging her in the most dehumanizing way possible short of sending a dick picture. That's how it was 10 years ago, at least. There are a lot of guys and only some women, and some of them barely know how to talk to one another in a way that doesn't make them sound like a weirdo or someone who thinks making vaguely threatening-sounding statements is sexy.

If a woman is getting unwarranted self-importance over weirdos asking her if she'd like to be part of a guy's polyamorous relationship, she's dumber than a sack of rocks. They ask every woman this question.
 
Messaging her in the most dehumanizing way possible short of sending a dick picture. That's how it was 10 years ago, at least.

If a woman is getting unwarranted self-importance over weirdos asking her if she'd like to be part of a guy's polyamorous relationship, she's dumber than a sack of rocks. They ask every woman this question.
It's still that way because you have to play it as a number's game, but you and I both know it still goes to their head. Hell, some women just do it for the attention it gets them and the dopamine hit.
 
It's still that way because you have to play it as a number's game, but you and I both know it still goes to their head. Hell, some women just do it for the attention it gets them and the dopamine hit.
I guess I'm built different from other wimmenz, then. Humility helps.

Probably the kind of people who say they hate drama, but they cause it. I don't understand how people like that have friends, but I guess they attract other people that are basically carbon copies of them.
 
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