Transhumanism

[Holdek]

Since the thread was rightly locked at LOLcow General, and Surtur suggested talking about it here if we wanted to, I thought I would start a thread.

A couple of corrections to the OP over there:

1. Ray Kurzweil predicts the singularity around 2045, not 2029.

2. Singularitarianism is a subset of transhumanism. Not all transhumanists believe in the idea of a technological singularity, or believe its prospect is so distant into the future that it isn't worth seriously discussing a lot.

3. Singularitarianis understand that acceleration in the power of raw computation is not enough to bring out human-level AI, which is why an important (although sometimes overlooked) focus of theirs is advances in spatial imaging of the brain. Kurzweil promotes "reverse engineering" the brain to find out how the human brain is able to do the things it does better than computers (pattern recognition, abstract thinking, and even emotion) and with this knowledge develop a neural simulator. Then we would combine that with the advantages that electronic computing has (speed and memory).

Also, I'm unaware of Randroids or feminists jumping on this idea. It's a serious part of future studies involving some serious people (read Kurzweil's bona fides, for example-- MIT educated, numerous patents, awards, associations with technology companies and government organizations).

 

[Great Unclean Chris]

So whats the point of this thread? to talk about the possibilities of artificially creating the ubermench? The ethics, the morals of why its wrong/right? Or some other thing I didn't list?

 

[Holdek]

So whats the point of this thread? to talk about the possibilities of artificially creating the ubermench? The ethics, the morals of why its wrong/right? Or some other thing I didn't list?

No, just to talk about transhumanism if you want.

 

[KatsuKitty]

I've kept a close eye on this and even wrote an entire term paper on it. I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death, and terrified at the thought such "enhancements" would ever be made de facto mandatory (like a driver's license, telephone, or a photo ID).

If you ask me, it's brightest prospects are in ending disease and death. I'd be loathe to touch healthy tissue because some academic thinks he knows better than thousands of years of evolution.

 

[Great Unclean Chris]

No, just to talk about transhumanism if you want.

Ok then. Personally I think that our society should NOT embrace transhumanism. Its just to exploitable for various reasons.

A few examples would be. A creation of a slave race caste of docile automatons, the weaponizing of humans, the creation of a superior master race (don't say i'm racist for this, I'm saying its WRONG), sporadic mutations and other genetic disorders, the removal of free will, etc.

If we do however embrace it. The only way I could see this happening is through the use of a new super stimulant (A good example of this would be Melange or Spice from Dune) that would increase our mental capabilities to the max and restore the other 90% of our brain that we don't use, but this is all purely theory and my opinion.

 

[Holdek]

No, just to talk about transhumanism if you want.

Ok then. Personally I think that our society should NOT embrace transhumanism. Its just to exploitable for various reasons.

A few examples would be. A creation of a slave race caste of docile automatons, the weaponizing of humans, the creation of a superior master race (don't say i'm racist for this, I'm saying its WRONG), sporadic mutations and other genetic disorders, the removal of free will, etc.

If we do however embrace it. The only way I could see this happening is through the use of a new super stimulant (A good example of this would be Melange or Spice from Dune) that would increase our mental capabilities to the max and restore the other 90% of our brain that we don't use, but this is all purely theory and my opinion.

We are already in the beginning stages of embracing it. Pacemakers and brain implants for sufferers of Parkinson's already exist as robotic enhancements to our bodies. Neurologically-controlled robotic arms for quadriplegics have been successfully used in testing situations. Genetic screening and therapy currently occurs, stem cell research as well, and just recently human embryos have been cloned.

I only see this trend continuing and trending into the future.

 

[Anchuent Christory]

I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death,

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

 

[KatsuKitty]

I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death,

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

Which is why space colonization goes hand-in-hand with this goal. People have been saying from dawn of the space age that our future is in the stars, and any long term sustainability plan necessitates us getting the hell off this rock.

 

[Anchuent Christory]

I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death,

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

Which is why space colonization goes hand-in-hand with this goal. People have been saying from dawn of the space age that our future is in the stars, and any long term sustainability plan necessitates us getting the hell off this rock.

Fair enough, but unfortunately I'd imagine the cessation of aging would be happening long before any viable form of interplanetary travel. The resources required just to put a man on the moon were mind-boggling.

Also, personally,I don't want to live forever. Growing old and feeble doesn't appeal to me, but never aging would drive me insane.

 

[The Hunter]

I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death,

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

Which is why space colonization goes hand-in-hand with this goal. People have been saying from dawn of the space age that our future is in the stars, and any long term sustainability plan necessitates us getting the hell off this rock.

I think death is a necessary part of life. No matter how many advances we make in medical science, all we can do is delay death. We can't stop it from ever happening. Not that I'm concerned about overpopulation. Just that everyone has to go eventually.

 

[Bgheff]

I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death,

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

I doubt the common person could afford immortality. It would be for the rich. With only a small portion of the population able to avoid death, no population issues.

If we can't afford to give basic health care to all people, there is no way everyone gets to prolong their life.

 

[KatsuKitty]

I'm simultaneously excited by the prospect of ending death,

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

I doubt the common person could afford immortality. It would be for the rich. With only a small portion of the population able to avoid death, no population issues.

If we can't afford to give basic health care to all people, there is no way everyone gets to prolong their life.

James Hughes wrote about this at length in Citizen Cyborg. His proposition was rather radical, basically guaranteeing everyone their own tugboat and treating access to enhancement technology with the same moral obligation that people view universal healthcare with. Even I was put off by a lot of the ideas he mentioned, but they may very well be necessarry to avoid that radical gap between the poor and the rich that such technology can create.

 

[Holdek]

You really think that's a good idea? i'd find that prospect terrifying personally, the world's overpopulated enough as it is.

Which is why space colonization goes hand-in-hand with this goal. People have been saying from dawn of the space age that our future is in the stars, and any long term sustainability plan necessitates us getting the hell off this rock.

Even if overpopulation wasn't a problem, there's a high risk of getting wiped out by an asteroid (Well, "high" in terms of millions of years I guess [maybe less?], basically that's what took the dinosaurs out.) or melted when the sun goes supernova. Or any other celestial event that screws up our planet. It's usually good not to put all our eggs in one basket, existentially speaking.

I doubt the common person could afford immortality. It would be for the rich. With only a small portion of the population able to avoid death, no population issues.

If we can't afford to give basic health care to all people, there is no way everyone gets to prolong their life.

James Hughes wrote about this at length in Citizen Cyborg. His proposition was rather radical, basically guaranteeing everyone their own tugboat and treating access to enhancement technology with the same moral obligation that people view universal healthcare with. Even I was put off by a lot of the ideas he mentioned, but they may very well be necessarry to avoid that radical gap between the poor and the rich that such technology can create.

These technologies will become less expensive as they scale up. You've got people in third-world Africa that do most of their business by cell phone, essentially a miniature, far more powerful version of a computer that cost millions of dollars each a few decades ago. The same thing happens in healthcare. Look at MRI machines; I'm sure the first few cost a lot more to make than the ones all over the place now.

 

[Holdek]

The Man With A 'Battery Operated Brain (NPR)

[youtube]uBh2LxTW0s0[/youtube]

 

[Hyperion]

Transhumanism is little more than a right wing scam to fleece the tech savvy but common sense deficient out of their cash.

 

[Holdek]

Transhumanism is little more than a right wing scam to fleece the tech savvy but common sense deficient out of their cash.

You don't have to purchase anything to be interested in transhumanism.

 

[NobleGreyHorse]

If the DBS in the video made by the guy with Parkinson's is a "scam," then I'd love to know what you'd consider sensible. It was Rush Limbaugh, not exactly a lefty, who accused Michael J. Fox of faking his own tremors and dystonia....

 

[PrimeCutDiggityDog]

I doubt the common person could afford immortality. It would be for the rich. With only a small portion of the population able to avoid death, no population issues.

If we can't afford to give basic health care to all people, there is no way everyone gets to prolong their life.

Are you sure about that? Consider that the most powerful and expensive supercomputers of the last decade are now in the average Joe's pocket. It's called depreciation, my friend, and even that is faster than ever.

 

[Picklepower]

I know I'm just a lay man, but what Ray Kurzweil says, sounds like some kind of tech worship to me, that I think could backfire, if this whole thing gets off the ground at all. I don't get how computers could make someone immortal though, computers don't last forever. Your consciousness in a machine, would that be considered living?

 

[Bgheff]

I doubt the common person could afford immortality. It would be for the rich. With only a small portion of the population able to avoid death, no population issues.

If we can't afford to give basic health care to all people, there is no way everyone gets to prolong their life.

Are you sure about that? Consider that the most powerful and expensive supercomputers of the last decade are now in the average Joe's pocket. It's called depreciation, my friend, and even that is faster than ever.

Yes, but that's because there is something bigger and better that is more expensive. It's in the average joes pocket now because it's not top of the line. Unless you can improve on immortality somehow, I assume it will always be expensive unless there is a need for it to be affordable. An example being we went to the moon decades ago. However, very few improvements have been made so it is still expensive if you want to buy a ticket to go. I assume life extensions if possible would get cheaper, but immortality will always be a biggy, since it's always the best.