Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Dang Dirty Troll]

The Renee and Catie trolling isn't as bad as it could be.

It's not like anyone is tricking Chris into traveling to another state, making him shove his medallion up his butt, or telling him to burn his house down. It's not like anyone is tricking Chris into sending them nudes (he sent taint pics without any request). It's not like anyone is tricking Chris into mass-debating on webcam.

Is it mean to let Chris believe Renee is real? Perhaps. But all I seem to see "Renee" do is post texts sent by Chris. Thetan could be doing 100x worse. Bluespike levels worse.

So I don't see why it's being debated so heavily.

 

[Puranjin]

The intentions of the people who initiated the relationship weren't grounded in reality. What's say if Chris, hypothetically, didn't act in such a contemptible way? The people behind Catie KNEW Chris was going to be Chris: he was going to be manipulative, obnoxious and completely solipsistic.

But if he wasn't, how would you justify stringing him along and then letting him go? Such a relationship could never have been based on mutual respect, unless you truly intended on maintaining your false persona with Chris.

Sure, you can reprimand him for being a prick in a relationship he thought was real, but I don't think it can be honestly said you expected him to act any differently.

 

[Le Bateleur]

The Renee and Catie trolling isn't as bad as it could be.

It's not like anyone is tricking Chris into traveling to another state, making him shove his medallion up his butt, or telling him to burn his house down. It's not like anyone is tricking Chris into sending them nudes (he sent taint pics without any request). It's not like anyone is tricking Chris into mass-debating on webcam.

Is it mean to let Chris believe Renee is real? Perhaps. But all I seem to see "Renee" do is post texts sent by Chris. Thetan could be doing 100x worse. Bluespike levels worse.

So I don't see why it's being debated so heavily.

If the trolling you mentioned was going on today, in the current community we have here, I guarantee you that people would challenge it. I know I would. There's no point of raking over things, particularly as most of the background details from that era will likely never come out.

That said, if anyone does set up some kind of Simonla Wiesenthal Institute, it would be very interesting...

 

[Marvin]

The intentions of the people who initiated the relationship weren't grounded in reality. What's say if Chris, hypothetically, didn't act in such a contemptible way? The people behind Catie KNEW Chris was going to be Chris: he was going to be manipulative, obnoxious and completely solipsistic.

But if he wasn't, how would you justify stringing him along and then letting him go? Such a relationship could never have been based on mutual respect, unless you truly intended on maintaining your false persona with Chris.

Sure, you can reprimand him for being a prick in a relationship he thought was real, but I don't think it can be honestly said you expected him to act any differently.

Heh, well, the statements being made are "Chris is a shithead" and "you guys would be surprised at how much of a shithead Chris is being". Both of which are solidly confirmed by the evidence, I think.

 

[Le Bateleur]

Heh, well, the statements being made are "Chris is a shithead" and "you guys would be surprised at how much of a shithead Chris is being". Both of which are solidly confirmed by the evidence, I think.

But neither of which required a practical experiment - with real consequences for Chris - to prove, no?

 

[Marvin]

But neither of which required a practical experiment - with real consequences for Chris - to prove, no?

The "you guys would be surprised at how much of a shithead Chris is being" requires an experiment to prove.

 

[WilhelmIIofPrussia]

The "you guys would be surprised at how much of a shithead Chris is being" requires an experiment to prove.

We didn't need one because we knew he behaved that way towards Megan. We just didn't know for certain that he was still capable of that.

 

[Marvin]

We didn't need one because we knew he behaved that way towards Megan. We just didn't know for certain that he was still capable of that.

Your expectations can always be wrong. Edit: And wrong expectations are what it means to be surprised.

 

[Zekesman]

Really the only reason Thetan should tell Chris is so he understands and he'll stop bothering her.
Chris sees no shades of gray - despite the best of intentions Renee will always be the vicious troll and possible alias of Megan the CWCki president. Catie will always be the heartless witch who earned his trust and broke his heart to further ruin his life. With Chris we have to think in the short term rather than the long term.

 

[WilhelmIIofPrussia]

Your expectations can always be wrong. Edit: And wrong expectations are what it means to be surprised.

Discovering that Chris's attitude towards sweetheart targets had improved, however the small the probability, does not in my opinion retroactively justify the deception and what seems to be entrapment by Catherine here.

 

[Marvin]

"It's Chris (and Barb's) responsibility to avoid being trolled". You aren't allowed to make an okCupid account, Chris. And don't even think about trying to sell a car!

Actually, Chris did fuck up with the okcupid account this time. Chris' anti-troll measures were correct in 2013, but he let up in 2014, hence Catie.

Chris fucked up this time.

 

[axcel]

The "you guys would be surprised at how much of a shithead Chris is being" requires an experiment to prove.

No, it really doesn't. Stop working under the false gravitas that you're performing a necessary experiment. We're all just laughing at an autistic dude from the internet, not trying to isolate the Tard Particle.
At least the 4chan kids where honest enough to admit they "did it for the lulz." Everyone masking their current trolling under the guise of being the beneign helper is some Chris-level denial.

 

[Marvin]

No, it really doesn't. Stop working under the false gravitas that you're performing a necessary experiment. We're all just laughing at an autistic dude from the internet, not trying to isolate the exceptional individual Particle.
At least the 4chan kids where honest enough to admit they "did it for the lulz." Everyone masking their current trolling under the guise of being the beneign helper is some Chris-level denial.

what

 

[WilhelmIIofPrussia]

Catherine never tried to set herself up as a girlfriend. She met Chris on OKCupid, but she told him that she wanted to use that as a starting point and see where things went from there. Also, the open relationship was Chris's idea, not Catherine's.

They were in an official romantic relationship for a time.
The open relationship was Chris's idea.

If Catherine never wanted to be a girlfriend then how did she end up as one?

 

[VJ 343]

I get the feeling my opinion on Chris's trolling is probably an unpopular one - even though I fall into the large number of people here who are purely consuming content found or 'created' with respect to Chris - I have no interest in interacting with him on any level, whether that be trolling or buying shit off eBay.

I don't really have a problem with a lot of the way the data on Chris is collected. Skyraider isn't creepy to me, and there was nothing unethical in what Thetan did, even if she wasn't truthful in the side of herself she presented to him - I honestly don't think truth is a huge factor in Chris's perceptions, anyway and you are not taking away something he values. The "trolls hacked Renee's phone" is a prime example.

Hell, I'm even willing to give Bluespike a little more leeway than most people here, especially after reading what Champthom had to say about it. The guy was essentially a child, and (imo) children often don't learn a lot of finer details about right from wrong until their mid teens - so yeah, he fucked up, I hesitate to throw the sociopath label around and I wouldn't condone it again.

To summarize it, I think the collection and release of information is perfectly fine, even with interaction with Chris, so long as it doesn't directly cause him physical harm or pecuniary loss. A lot of his psychological torment seems to be, if not self inflicted then self preserved, something to be ruminated over and held bitterly, which is a behavior I think Barb has more of a role in than any troll.

 

[Flowers For Sonichu]

I can appreciate the argument you're making about Chris's behaviour being inappropriate, and it certainly seems to have found a lot of traction here. I've thought this over a lot, and I don't say what I'm about to say lightly, but I think that I simply can't get past what you did to obtain this content.

I'm not going to harangue you or "call you out", but suffice it to say I think that - all current evidence considered - your trolling of Chris was far more unacceptable, inappropriate and damaging than anything Chris has done in response. The same applies to Skyraider and "Catie" - particularly to "Catie", since you and Skyraider have both had the courage to come here and discuss this with us, and that is admirable.

The only reason that I set this out explicitly is because it's central to my position on these leaks. You and Skyraider are both, essentially, pointing to Chris's actions and condemning his moral flaws. I simply cannot find it in myself to listen to this condemnation when it comes from people who have done what you and Skyraider and "Catie" have done. If I were in your situation myself I would stick to providing content and answering factual questions about it, and leave making the case against Chris to others who didn't participate in any deception.

Yes, I know there's more documentation and evidence to come, but based on what I've seen so far it'll take something extraordinary for me to change the picture that's already been built up.

In closing: I wish you no ill-will, nor any fallout or blowback from this incident. Almost everyone has been very cordial about this so far, and long may that continue.

I agree with you 1,000%. It's one thing to be a "JULAAAAAAY" sort of shitlord, but positing yourself as saying "I'm going to lie and deceive this person in order to help them become a better person as an act of charity when trained professionals have failed for over 30 years, and then post all of our convos and talk about how shitty they are when I fail" is worse than weening/A-logging. You're all taking the position of "look, we TRIED to help Chris, we're not like Bluespike, we're good people who wanted to make him a better person but he's too evil for us to help! Since he didn't listen to us, here is a picture of his infected taint." This is disingenuous and hypocritical, to say the least.

 

[hm yeah]

didn't read the thread

i am in full support of things that bring me pleasure

but if i were in contact with a lolcow, they trusted me, and told me some stuff, no matter how juicy it is i would not share it out of principle.

that's probably hypocritical

but i'm not in contact with any juicy lolcows.

 

[Godjesus]

I can appreciate the argument you're making about Chris's behaviour being inappropriate, and it certainly seems to have found a lot of traction here. I've thought this over a lot, and I don't say what I'm about to say lightly, but I think that I simply can't get past what you did to obtain this content.

I'm not going to harangue you or "call you out", but suffice it to say I think that - all current evidence considered - your trolling of Chris was far more unacceptable, inappropriate and damaging than anything Chris has done in response. The same applies to Skyraider and "Catie" - particularly to "Catie", since you and Skyraider have both had the courage to come here and discuss this with us, and that is admirable.

The only reason that I set this out explicitly is because it's central to my position on these leaks. You and Skyraider are both, essentially, pointing to Chris's actions and condemning his moral flaws. I simply cannot find it in myself to listen to this condemnation when it comes from people who have done what you and Skyraider and "Catie" have done. If I were in your situation myself I would stick to providing content and answering factual questions about it, and leave making the case against Chris to others who didn't participate in any deception.

Yes, I know there's more documentation and evidence to come, but based on what I've seen so far it'll take something extraordinary for me to change the picture that's already been built up.

This is so full of fallacies...

>your trolling of Chris was far more unacceptable, inappropriate and damaging than anything Chris has done in response
>Yes, I know there's more documentation and evidence to come

>The only reason that I set this out explicitly is because it's central to my position on these leaks. You and Skyraider are both, essentially, pointing to Chris's actions and condemning his moral flaws. I simply cannot find it in myself to listen to this condemnation
Really??

Discovering that Chris's attitude towards sweetheart targets had improved, however the small the probability, does not in my opinion retroactively justify the deception and what seems to be entrapment by Catherine here.

Entrapment is leading someone to do something they wouldn't normally do. Hardly the case. It's classic CWC behavior and well documented. You're just biased.

Why are people reacting like this on a site that relies on information that these members are condemning? There would no need for this if there wasn't demand for this kind of information in the first place. Why is everyone acting like bitches?

 

[Thetan]

In particular with Catherine, I reasoned that it was well calculated that this be an open relationship, to exploit Chris's well-known and hair trigger jealousy, and to see how far he'd be willing to put up with what is, even in the best situations with consenting adults, an incredibly difficult dating arrangement.

The open relationship wasn't a setup, it was entirely Chris's idea. Take a look at the relationship vows thread, you can see it in Chris's own words.

Even When and if I should feel need for a break, or to find fun with anyone else,
- I Vow to inform you of such times and with who, and all other details, of such.

I can appreciate the argument you're making about Chris's behaviour being inappropriate, and it certainly seems to have found a lot of traction here. I've thought this over a lot, and I don't say what I'm about to say lightly, but I think that I simply can't get past what you did to obtain this content.

I'm not going to harangue you or "call you out", but suffice it to say I think that - all current evidence considered - your trolling of Chris was far more unacceptable, inappropriate and damaging than anything Chris has done in response. The same applies to Skyraider and "Catie" - particularly to "Catie", since you and Skyraider have both had the courage to come here and discuss this with us, and that is admirable.

The only reason that I set this out explicitly is because it's central to my position on these leaks. You and Skyraider are both, essentially, pointing to Chris's actions and condemning his moral flaws. I simply cannot find it in myself to listen to this condemnation when it comes from people who have done what you and Skyraider and "Catie" have done. If I were in your situation myself I would stick to providing content and answering factual questions about it, and leave making the case against Chris to others who didn't participate in any deception.

Yes, I know there's more documentation and evidence to come, but based on what I've seen so far it'll take something extraordinary for me to change the picture that's already been built up.

In closing: I wish you no ill-will, nor any fallout or blowback from this incident. Almost everyone has been very cordial about this so far, and long may that continue.

Fair enough, and I appreciate you maintaining a cordial tone.

Honestly though, I'm not trying to sway people's opinions so much as I'm trying to provide additional context. People should, of course, make up their own minds based on the available information (of which there is a lot more to come.).

If Catherine never wanted to be a girlfriend then how did she end up as one?

Chris made up his mind that she was his girlfriend simply because she responded to his OKCupid profile. As the texts show, he kept on insisting that Catherine was his girlfriend despite her telling him (repeatedly) that she just wanted to be friends. Chris really didn't give her any say in the matter.

 

[Le Bateleur]

This is so full of fallacies...

>your trolling of Chris was far more unacceptable, inappropriate and damaging than anything Chris has done in response
>Yes, I know there's more documentation and evidence to come

>The only reason that I set this out explicitly is because it's central to my position on these leaks. You and Skyraider are both, essentially, pointing to Chris's actions and condemning his moral flaws. I simply cannot find it in myself to listen to this condemnation
Really??


Entrapment is leading someone to do something they wouldn't normally do. Hardly the case. It's classic CWC behavior and well documented. You're just biased.

Why are people reacting like this on a site that relies on information that these members are condemning? There would no need for this if there wasn't demand for this kind of information in the first place. Why is everyone acting like bitches?

PROTIP: putting a ">" in front of quotes from someone's post doesn't magically turn them into fallacies.

Not even if you make the text green.

The moar you know.

Are you actually going to point out why my points are fallacious?