Trust and Bias

[Pargon]

How do you fellow Kiwis parse truth?

Politicians can't be trusted. Neither can the media. Bribery, bias and collusion are everywhere, and while these aren't new problems it seems at least to me that they're certainly more brazen than ever before. Or maybe I'm just more conscious of it, I don't know. I only have my own perception to go on.

It seems like no one of sufficient influence, financial or social or political, are really made to answer for dishonesty. They rely on censorship or selective silence until people simply forget or move on. But I'm finding it harder and harder to do that. I don't know who to believe but at the same time I want truth more than ever. I can't walk away, and that inability to walk away is breeding bitterness, which is giving way to cynical bile. This is the only community online with whom I interact. I can't abide social media and I'm starting to think even espousing moderate views on it is reason to be targeted for populist reprisal, and even trawling the internet for objective news is difficult due to control over search results.

I don't want to be told what to think, and I'm not smart enough to understand every issue on my own absent of research. I just want to know that the methods I'm using to help me come to my own conclusions aren't leading anyone down one path or another.

 

[break these cuffs]

in order to get to the truth of a matter, your only real option is to parse as many different sources as you can, compare what they are saying, and figure it out on your own from there.

problem is that this takes more time than you have available in a day, unless you are a NEET.

>being a wagecuck in CURRENT YEAR

Big's post is the honest answer though. Knowing the bias of a source is a great way to cut through the shit. Learning newspeak and ignoring hyperbole/histrionics are key. As you get older you recognize patterns and will remember when this event, or something similar has happened before, which will give you grounded expectations and will set off your bullshit meter when one group or another starts screeching about the children or whatever. People are not nearly as complex as we like to pretend and developing the ability to boil actions down to actual needs and expected outcomes will come with time.

Almost forgot, follow the money trail.

 

[Ягода]

I trust other people who have been proven themselves reasonably to be on the same page as I am.

 

[jewelry investor]

As you get older you recognize patterns and will remember when this event

Sadly this isn't true for some older people I know. You first you have to stop supporting politics like you would with your local sports team, then you recognize the tricks. Else your BS detector will just get worse with age.

 

[Pargon]

I trust other people who have been proven themselves reasonably to be on the same page as I am.

Respectfully, isn't that just seeking confirmation bias, though?

 

[Recoil]

My problem, as I've come to see it, is that I'm very open minded - to the point where I can look at the world around me, hear all these different points of view and genuinely not know what to believe. In current year it's very difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff with so many different agendas being borked at me all the time, and having no real anchor? no true story that tells you where you're going in the universe? Hell, man. That shit leads to crazy.

The best option for me is to turn it all off, focus on working and being as grateful as I can and genuinely avoiding the discourse altogether. I hate to say it, but we've got to just turn everything off once in a while and focus on earthly concerns. How do I know what's really true at the end of the day? I don't. I have no clue, but I'm here, I'm real. I've got some work to do and a cup of tea, those are real. It's raining like all hell outside, I can hear the thunder. Thats real.

What else is there, when push comes to shove? Fuck that noise, just live.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

I'm with @Recon: learn to pare things down to what you absolutely need to know in life and don't get too hung up on it. Epistemology has been stumping the greatest minds since we started asking questions and I don't think we'll ever really crack it.

That's not to say that you shouldn't have a fair grounding in logic so that you can keep your head on straight, it's definitely useful and illuminating.

At the end of they day, there's nothing wrong with saying "I don't know" or "I don't care".

 

[break these cuffs]

Sadly this isn't true for some older people I know. You first you have to stop supporting politics like you would with your local sports team, then you recognize the tricks. Else your BS detector will just get worse with age.

It is definitely a trap most people fall into. You get set in your ways. You know things as you get older. I'm not as open minded as I was before I solidified my worldview as a young adult, but I'm also open to discussion with people I trust and many of my friends hold different views than I do. I'm not open to hearing arguments from most sources because I've heard most of it before and a lot of what you will read or hear in the public sphere is both severely flawed in terms of objectivity, but it's also often being argued in bad faith. However, I have have enough people in my life that will challenge me to at least clearly explain my position.

I guess that's another piece of advice. Engage friends and family who don't hold the same views as you whom you trust. It will make you more receptive to other view points and will challenge you to examine your own position.

 

[RG 448]

The single most effective manipulation tactic is sex appeal, so i never believe anyone I’m sexually attracted to. Needless to say I don’t trust anyone, especially myself.

 

[Ягода]

Respectfully, isn't that just seeking confirmation bias, though?

I don't seek quick answers, I seek research and opinions of people who are similar to me, i.e. I trust some to do the research and present facts and opinion, to do the job that I would have done myself. Sometimes I spend the time to research shit myself and present it and hopefully some will find it useful.

If research and opinion is based on evidence and facts, there is no bias. Some people are anal at doing that, some people sperg on emotions, those are usually not good sources.

 

[Irrational Exuberance]

Two rules to live by have done me well.

1. Everyone is stupid, except me.

2. Find/Replace "except" with "especially".

Even the most intelligent and knowledgeable person is capable of great feats of idiocy under the right circumstances. If you see anybody rising above you, look carefully at what they're standing on.

 

[break these cuffs]

Two rules to live by have done me well.

1. Everyone is stupid, except me.

2. Find/Replace "except" with "especially".

Even the most intelligent and knowledgeable person is capable of great feats of idiocy under the right circumstances. If you see anybody rising above you, look carefully at what they're standing on.

>not combining except with especially to make exspecially
Rookie mistake

 

[bev]

Like others have said, listen to everyone, regardless of their age, political affiliation, etc. (within reason, of course). Don't argue with them, just soak in and process what they're saying. Later on, you can compare those narratives to your own experiences. That's the closest you can get to having some sort of objective truth.

Tbh, it's easier said than done since egos get in the way and the urge to be confrontational is almost inescapable. It's easy for people to discredit anyone who they disagree with, regardless of how true their perspectives are in a given scenario. That's really all you can do. Then form your own opinions and stick to them, regardless of how others criticize your views. You'll never be able to grasp actual Truth, but that's life.

 

[Slappy McGherkin]

You'll never be able to grasp actual Truth, but that's life.

Agree, but most people can't handle (or plain don't want to hear) the truth. Most only believe what they find palatable to their own opinions. The media and politicians apply that lustrous glaze to the truth to serve palatability up on a platter to the public. There's also the fact that what you accept as the "truth" in your youth may not be the same "truth" you accept as you get older. I've certainly seen that in myself over the decades.

It was easier when there were basically only three channels on TV (yes, I'm that old). The news between the three was fairly consistent with the truth and not drenched in political agenda. I would always read a newspaper each day, which wasn't aligned with broadcast media and reporters and journalists researched and wrote true stories. Opinions were relegated to their own OP/Ed section of the paper.

Today? With technology and the 24 hour news cycle, with media companies owning newspapers, TV and radio, with little to no distinction any longer being made between news and political opinion, you can't believe a fucking thing anybody says. Period. Social media is an absolute cesspool of disinformation. At some point, I hope it implodes.

Case in point, I was reading an article linked here this morning about TERFs and troons and such. I get to a line in the article that's talking about some nimrod and his wife and it says verbatim "his preferred pronouns are they/their." I just stopped reading right there. What in the exactly fuck does anyone's "preferred pronouns" have to do with the story? Nada. Zilch. Zero.

I honestly feel there's a much higher level of bullshit detection here on the Farms than virtually anywhere else on the Intarwebs. I see a pile of shit called exactly that -- a pile of shit, then it's laughed at. I don't tend to see posters here pushing agendas. Oh yeah, there are shitposts galore and plenty of strong opinions, but there's a lot of that plain old truth, not wrapped in bacon and glazed to make it pretty or palatable.

 

[bev]

Today? With technology and the 24 hour news cycle, with media companies owning newspapers, TV and radio, with little to no distinction any longer being made between news and political opinion, you can't believe a fucking thing anybody says. Period. Social media is an absolute cesspool of disinformation. At some point, I hope it implodes.

It's interesting how with more sources of information, we've found that people prefer to nestle in their own little niche and develop stronger cases of group-think, than take advantage of the hordes of perspectives available to them. And I agree with you that people only accept what's palatable to them. In my experience, people really, really want to believe others are incapable of lying to them.

Opinions were relegated to their own OP/Ed section of the paper.

How telling is it that my [large/liberal] city's local paper got rid of the opinion section around 2014

 

[ProgKing of the North]

I just listen to future king of England Sargon of Akkad

 

[Slappy McGherkin]

In my experience, people really, really want to believe others are incapable of lying to them.

That's where the "Trust" part of the equation comes into the OP's post. As a whole, our society is built on trust. We rely on trust in our everyday lives. We trust that the doctor is telling us the truth, that the money we put in the bank will be there, that the food we buy is what it says it is, etc. Until recently, people mostly trusted the news, but most folks now have seen behind the curtain that outfits like CNN, FOX, etc. aren't really delivering the news anymore. They're pushing an agenda disguised as news. I don't know if "fake news" will ever get the trust of the general public back; not counting those who actually want to believe it.

 

[AF 802]

White people are right. Minorities wrong.

 

[ProgKing of the North]

being open minded is a bad thing tbh. it means you are naive, easy to manipulate, and easy to control.
if you want to get to the legitimate truth, you have to be the opposite of open minded: stubborn and sceptical. otherwise you will easily get distracted and misled.

I think it depends on the situation. If, for example, a normal person is debating a flat earther one of those people needs to open their mind and one needs to remain stubborn and skeptical.

White people are right. Minorities wrong.

What about when white people are saying minorities are good?

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]