Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Bitchy Babylonian Barber said:
Does a Soul impart some sort of intelligence onto a creature? Cause it seems like Kris is able to be somewhat intelligent without it. He's able to reliably grab and discard the Soul, speak(?), use tools, and understand abstract concepts. Though this may also be because Kris had a life with experiences before this Soul came in so he could rely on pre-established knowledge from before.

So the Vessel could both be as humanly intelligent as Kris is, but since they're also a new Human/Vessel with no prior experience they might be a braindead lobotomite.
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When creating the vessel you're asked how you feel about it and it says it won't hear you, so I assume even the vessel has a bit of a mind of its own. Unlike Kris, who is his own person who has had a life before becoming a flesh mech, I feel like the vessel wouldn't fight you when it comes to accurately describing what its looking at, actually reading stuff like newspaper articles about important characters, saying what you tell it to say, and most importantly OPENING FUCKING SUSPICIOUS DOORS AT THE CHURCH, KRIS, YOU FUCKER.
 
LoogerLike said:
When creating the vessel you're asked how you feel about it and it says it won't hear you
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this could be true, but it also sounds like Gaster's just talking us through the steps- or whoever's making us make us. To me it reads more like a snide remark rather than a genuine feature of the Vessel. Never mind the fact it's grayed out and immediately discarded- along with the fact it's simply called 'the Vessel'. It's got no name (unless the Save file name is also the Vessels name), it's got no 'life'/color to it, it seems like it's truly just an empty sack of meat and bones with nothing- not even basic autonomy behind those eyes. But at the same time, who really knows.
 
Smack Patrick said:
Fuck I've talked myself into needing this so fucking bad.
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Makes me wonder, how would you translate Deltarune bullet hell combat to PvP? You could let players make their own combinations of bullet patterns, but there'd probably have to be some way to stop players from making completely unavoidable attacks. Maybe for some patterns there'd be a Yellow Soul sorta thing where you can directly control a bullet spawner and shoot at your enemy's soul.
Maybe as a way of buffing attacks, both bullet speed and soul speed are increased for a turn. If you only increase bullet speed then it becomes easy to make unavoidable attacks, but if you increase both then it becomes a skill-based challenge similar to how playing a song fast is harder than playing it slow.
There's probably at least one PvP bullet hell game out there somewhere, which likely executed the idea better than what I described here.
 
my penis is on fire said:
Makes me wonder, how would you translate Deltarune bullet hell combat to PvP? You could let players make their own combinations of bullet patterns, but there'd probably have to be some way to stop players from making completely unavoidable attacks. Maybe for some patterns there'd be a Yellow Soul sorta thing where you can directly control a bullet spawner and shoot at your enemy's soul.
Maybe as a way of buffing attacks, both bullet speed and soul speed are increased for a turn. If you only increase bullet speed then it becomes easy to make unavoidable attacks, but if you increase both then it becomes a skill-based challenge similar to how playing a song fast is harder than playing it slow.
There's probably at least one PvP bullet hell game out there somewhere, which likely executed the idea better than what I described here.
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Do the mario maker thing: You have to be able to dodge your own bullet pattern no-hit before you can use it. You make premade patterns to choose from and sh-boom, bob's your uncle.
Alternatively, pvp just wouldn't have bullet patterns.
 
my penis is on fire said:
Makes me wonder, how would you translate Deltarune bullet hell combat to PvP? You could let players make their own combinations of bullet patterns, but there'd probably have to be some way to stop players from making completely unavoidable attacks. Maybe for some patterns there'd be a Yellow Soul sorta thing where you can directly control a bullet spawner and shoot at your enemy's soul.
Maybe as a way of buffing attacks, both bullet speed and soul speed are increased for a turn. If you only increase bullet speed then it becomes easy to make unavoidable attacks, but if you increase both then it becomes a skill-based challenge similar to how playing a song fast is harder than playing it slow.
There's probably at least one PvP bullet hell game out there somewhere, which likely executed the idea better than what I described here.
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I imagine a Deltarune PvP would have to be like a PvPvE situation. You would have the two opposing player sides fighting with their normal abilities, but there's also a Darkner(s) who aren't directly part of the fight but will be the ones attacking during the bullet hell phase of each turn, with both players needing to dodge. Perhaps there could be an ability or items that let's you change what the Darkner to hopefully get a bullet pattern that you're better at dodging than your opponent.

Actually, now that I've written it out, I've thought of an even better way to do it. Use the recruitment system to have players collect and maybe even train Darkners like Pokemon. When you get into a PvP fight, you take at least one Darkner with you. You and the other player use their normal actions to fight each other, but during the bullet hell phase, each player will have to dodge the other player's partner Darkner's bullet pattern.
 
Retarded Weeb said:
I imagine a Deltarune PvP would have to be like a PvPvE situation. You would have the two opposing player sides fighting with their normal abilities, but there's also a Darkner(s) who aren't directly part of the fight but will be the ones attacking during the bullet hell phase of each turn, with both players needing to dodge. Perhaps there could be an ability or items that let's you change what the Darkner to hopefully get a bullet pattern that you're better at dodging than your opponent.

Actually, now that I've written it out, I've thought of an even better way to do it. Use the recruitment system to have players collect and maybe even train Darkners like Pokemon. When you get into a PvP fight, you take at least one Darkner with you. You and the other player use their normal actions to fight each other, but during the bullet hell phase, each player will have to dodge the other player's partner Darkner's bullet pattern.
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Or maybe just go all in on the Darkners? Make it work like Bloons TD Battles: You’re permanently in bullet hell mode, but you can spend TP in real time to either upgrade your Darkners, attack your opponent’s Darkners, or perform ACTs and spare them so they fight alongside you instead. Classes have different stats and ACTs, so some will handle certain Darkners better than others.
 
Two Dollars said:
Or maybe just go all in on the Darkners? Make it work like Bloons TD Battles: You’re permanently in bullet hell mode, but you can spend TP in real time to either upgrade your Darkners, attack your opponent’s Darkners, or perform ACTs and spare them so they fight alongside you instead. Classes have different stats and ACTs, so some will handle certain Darkners better than others.
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Having to perform other actions while dodging bullets sounds like it's be too hardcore of a multitasking challenge for many people, and if you're not dodging bullet and just letting the Darkners auto-attack each other then that doesn't sound Undertale/Deltarune-ish enough.

I think my second idea has promise. Imagine PvP fights are 3v3, players team up to fight enough. Each player also takes a Darkner with them to do bullet attacks. Each turn has a phase where players chose their action for the turn (attack, act, item, defend) within a short time limit, then the actions are processed through like in the actual game, and then there's a bullet hell phase where each player has to dodge attacks from the 3 enemy Darkners. KOing all the enemy players will win you the fight, but perhaps you can also fight or spare the enemy's Darkners to reduce their offensive capabilities. Different classes could have different focuses on whether they're good at fighting enemy players, fighting or sparing their Darkners, manipulating your own Darkners in some way, or doing support. Perhaps you could have a "tank" by someone having an ability that makes it so they're the only one who needs to dodge bullets that turn while their allies get a rest, for example.
 
my penis is on fire said:
There's probably at least one PvP bullet hell game out there somewhere
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Twinkle Star Sprites is perhaps the canonical example; it's a gameplay style that would be familiar to Toby since the mainline Touhou games with PvP are all spiritual successors to it of varying quality.
Retarded Weeb said:
Having to perform other actions while dodging bullets sounds like it's be too hardcore of a multitasking challenge for many people, and if you're not dodging bullet and just letting the Darkners auto-attack each other then that doesn't sound Undertale/Deltarune-ish enough.
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It has this problem, though, since interaction is pretty much entirely based around considering other mechanics (chaining, in that case, but something more suitable would have to be found) while dodging.
 
Twinkle Star is a great game but if you really want touhou pvp check out Maiden and Spell.
Retarded Weeb said:
Having to perform other actions while dodging bullets sounds like it's be too hardcore of a multitasking challenge for many people, and if you're not dodging bullet and just letting the Darkners auto-attack each other then that doesn't sound Undertale/Deltarune-ish enough.
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If you go 'pfft no I totally want that' at this description: Atomicrops. It's a solid game, worth the $3 it's going for right now for sure.
 
Why the fuck /v/ is so obssesd with de/ss/ ?

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