Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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The reason the non-binary Kris thing has caused such a shitfit with the typical crowd is because people are finally tired of their bullshit.
Screaming and being obnoxious has always worked for them but that's their literal only trick. Now it no longer works. So they just kinda scream and throw a fit even harder thinking it'll do something.
 
Incorrigible Bigotry said:
Were they ever this rabid with Frisk? I was late on the Undertale train (used to share my Steam with my little brother who bought it so I booted it up one day as a joke around 2017/2018 and actually ended up liking it lmao) but the impression I got is that the fags who did consider Frisk non-binary at least generally acknowledged that it was their headcanon, despite it being revealed at the end of the pacifist route that Frisk is their own person (iirc). Even with that detail it was still widely accepted that Frisk is as much of a blank slate as humanly possible for you to project yourself onto. The only reason I can imagine that they INSIST on it being canon with Kris is that him being his own person is far more pronounced in the plot of Deltarune than it was with Frisk in Undertale.
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I was an Undertale fan since when the fandom began in 2015. Frisk was recognized by most fans to be a girl, which you can tell clearly by looking at old fandubs and fanart in general, however, some people called them a boy and there were no noteworthy infightings about it, cause everyone understood that Frisk was a blank slate at the end of the day.

I assume why the mass hysteria for such a trivial headcanon towards Kris is mainly because being non-binary was seen as cringe in 2015, or at least, nothing special, like being asexual.

This mob mentality is even more interesting, because when chapter 2 released in 2021, I can't recall a single person "correcting" Kris' pronouns, since the idea of a blank slate protag was still there. The most "woke" thing I heard was Kris being trans due to their dark world sprite having blue and pink colors, but again, it was seen more as a headcanon rather than a fact.
 
Wow, 47 CITATIONS!? They (heh) are desperate to prove Kris is a NB, even though that would mean he's asexual or something, which most certainly he's not.
 
Crack pot theory: Dess died and became a spooky ghost in the dark world. Then she inhabitated the roaring knights body. Like how napstablook became metaton. I think the knight is going to end up being a robotic suit like thing. Tenna and Queen, two of the knights minions, have strong ties to control and technology. So does gaster, obviously, who is also associated with ghosts.

I had the idea because both games have now explained how ghost monsters merge with objects and eventually become corporeal. The first game had napstablook and metaton. The second game has had the dummies (I forget their name) giving us even more detail about the possesion process. I find it hard to believe these concepts are being repeated for no reason. It doesn't rationalize my theory but I think something like metaton will happen again. There's also the concept of souls controling vessels, which is a similiar theme. And we're about to enter a new chapter involving flowers/asgore which is an obvious reference to undertale with flowy and asgore being interested in souls inhabiting objects.

Maybe the knight is so powerful because its the best of both worlds. Vessels have issues because they share / compete with a host body. Ghosts can fully control their new body, but lack a soul and the power it brings. So maybe the knight somehow has both.

I dont play the game so I probally fucked a lot of things up. I just like watching lore videos and had this idea.
 
Speaking of crackhead theories, i once read a theory called the "despite everything, it's still you" theory, claiming that Kris ripping his soul out and doing weird stuff doesn't actually mean Kris is a separate entity from us, but the opposite, that he is trying to cope with his bad decisions like snowgrave by pretending an outer force is controlling him, which is hinted at by the shadow mantle in chapter 3 telling Kris himself is actually enjoying fucking with Noelle. Now, while i could give some credit to this theory pre chapters 3+4, chapter 4 specially fucks up this theory unless you make mental gymnastics about how Kris doing Tom and Jerry shenanigans with the soul is him having a schizo attack, or he took the thorn ring from Noelle just to give it back to her so he could fuck her up even more, but what do you guys think?
 
Hear me out. The shadow mantle critter's name is ERAM, which is "mare" backwards.

In chapter one, when King is defeated, his cloak (mantle) flies away, butterfly style. Seam had the shadow mantle, someone took it. King is that someone. King had the shadow mantle.

Then we have the Knight. No one for sure knows who or what the hell the Knight is.

Back to ERAM. What if the Knight and ERAM are two halves of the same whole? The thing possessing the shadow mantle, who has apparently been present more or less since the end of the first chapter, it escaped at the end of the fight with King and chose to reappear around the same time the Knight did. They spell (k)nightmare together. Maybe ERAM is the soul and the Knight is the vessel. And maybe ERAM, instead of bringing light like the soul that possesses Kris, brings darkness. Because it's inverted. Symbolized by the backwards name.

That's my personal schizo theory.
 
Red flag said:
Prophesized events will always happen, but there's no restriction on what happens before and after.
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I am currently leaning towards the idea that Chapter 5 will be the 'end' of the prophecy and 6/7 will be us in our actual vessel saving the day. I think we are a rogue element messing with the timeline, the only reason we haven't already changed things significantly come Chapter 3 by determinationing The Knight is because our vessel is actively working against us to keep us on track. (Kris slash theory is real)

Kris will cage us at the end of CH 5 and cause the roaring, unwittingly letting us enter a dark world as our own vessel, giving us a chance to really break Deltarune wide open.

Gaster is on our side, don't forget. He WANTS us to change things. If there was only one ending it would squander all the set up.
Cryogonal2 said:
Erm. Kris is nonbinary? Consult the 47 citations, if you will. Boy, I bet you feel silly now, huh.
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I will simply download the Kris pronouns he/him Nexus mod.
Peru oso donas said:
but what do you guys think?
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Pretty unlikely since the player as an entity in universe has been a thing since Undertale. The thing with Kris is that some part of him DOES enjoy doing bad things / hurting people. This is reinforced all the time when people mention he is a fucking delinquent who bullied Noelle a lot specifically.

Some part of Kris DOES enjoy what is happening in Snowgrave, he likes pushing Noelle around, he likes manipulating her and scaring her, he always has. Him crashing out about it is twofold that he feels guilty about that AND that it's crossing over into seriously hurting her.
Dorothy said:
The person who calls Spamton when you visit his shop (as in possessing him) is Dess stuck in the dark. (The same person in the code)
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Dess being lost in the code and apparently quite terrified and confused is a big reason I'm leaning more towards Rudy Knight these days.

Unless The Knight is Dess' physical form she is unlikely to be a villain and scared as fuck about being lost in the code, begging to be heard. More likely that Rudy and Kris are working together to save her.
 
Undertale-комикс-Undertale-Kris-(Deltarune)-Deltarune-персонажи-8956314.webp
Undertale-комикс-Undertale-Kris-(Deltarune)-Deltarune-персонажи-8956315.webp


The noelle cucking shall continue until morale improves
 
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Borplesnort said:
Hear me out. The shadow mantle critter's name is ERAM, which is "mare" backwards.

In chapter one, when King is defeated, his cloak (mantle) flies away, butterfly style. Seam had the shadow mantle, someone took it. King is that someone. King had the shadow mantle.

Then we have the Knight. No one for sure knows who or what the hell the Knight is.

Back to ERAM. What if the Knight and ERAM are two halves of the same whole? The thing possessing the shadow mantle, who has apparently been present more or less since the end of the first chapter, it escaped at the end of the fight with King and chose to reappear around the same time the Knight did. They spell (k)nightmare together. Maybe ERAM is the soul and the Knight is the vessel. And maybe ERAM, instead of bringing light like the soul that possesses Kris, brings darkness. Because it's inverted. Symbolized by the backwards name.

That's my personal schizo theory.
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>They spell (k)nightmare together
It goes deeper than that. What’s the song that the Knight’s theme is based on?
 
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