- Joined
- Aug 5, 2020
i wish misfortune on the highest level to them.
Undertale
- Thread starter Len Kagamoney
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
So I realize I have no real way to prove this other than my word, but I beat Spamton NEO on my first try blind. I knew he was the boss, but that was it. So I’m fairly proud of myself, especially after Jevil.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2019
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
Okay so I feel like throwing some of my deltarune thoughts into a void that isn't covered head to toe in degenerate porn (/utg/) so I shall dump more schizoposts/theories
Souls, Bodies, You and "You"
In Undertale you as the player represented in two ways: your control over Frisk's Soul, and the control over the SAVE file, which is the culmination of Frisk's determination and the power of Chara's awakened spirit/essence. Although you equally represent the mortal choices and beliefs of Frisk and the supernatural presence of Chara, you are not "an anomaly" separate from them, that's just the language Sans uses to describe the effects your actions have on the timeline, which he can somehow observe. Sans is probably also lumping Flowey's adventures in with yours as well, as he'd have no way to tell the difference. Outside of unusual circumstances Frisk and Chara do not or cannot resist your influence. Chara needs increasing amounts of LOVE to defy you and Frisk only ever does so in the True Lab, seemingly because the environment is so alien and unnerving.
In a sense, Undertale has you both be a player on the stage and a member of the audience, and when you refuse to play the part you're intended, stretch the bounds of possibility against their natural intentions, you get catastrophic results. Ultimately Genocide sets you down the path of destroying many innocent lives, turning the spirit of a misanthropic child into a world-devouring demon and ending a reality. These definitions are by no means definitive but I think they make a lot of sense.
Deltarune goes weird places with these ideas. In particular, it seems that without any outside influence, Kris's body is able to rip its Soul out, the source of our influence on it and has been able to for some time since the start of the game. My personal theory on the matter is that the GONER MAKER was intended to give You, the Soul, an ideal body that would not resist you and allow you to provide the ideal outcomes of whatever experiment that Gaster is conducting in Hometown. On the flip side there must be some sort of opposing force controlling your body and acting against You. You get forced out of the GONER MAKER by someone who speaks distinctly differently from Gaster, and I believe Clam Girl proves that Goners can be disguised as normal people and monsters, so it seems that someone else prevented you from getting your disguised Goner body.
I think part of the reason Toby and co decided to release Chapter 2 and are going to release 3-5 in a batch is because Chapters 3-5 will be the next shift in the narrative arc. I believe the direction this will take is the game taking in this next arc is the body gaining enough power to leave you behind and the cliffhanger for chapter 5 will be the body leaving you behind, walking away the same way you do. This will set up Chapter 6 to be a bit like Chapter 5 of Paper Mario TTYD, where you in your Goner body defeat the corrupted body and win your friends back over.
Boy... That's a lot of autism
In Undertale you as the player represented in two ways: your control over Frisk's Soul, and the control over the SAVE file, which is the culmination of Frisk's determination and the power of Chara's awakened spirit/essence. Although you equally represent the mortal choices and beliefs of Frisk and the supernatural presence of Chara, you are not "an anomaly" separate from them, that's just the language Sans uses to describe the effects your actions have on the timeline, which he can somehow observe. Sans is probably also lumping Flowey's adventures in with yours as well, as he'd have no way to tell the difference. Outside of unusual circumstances Frisk and Chara do not or cannot resist your influence. Chara needs increasing amounts of LOVE to defy you and Frisk only ever does so in the True Lab, seemingly because the environment is so alien and unnerving.
In a sense, Undertale has you both be a player on the stage and a member of the audience, and when you refuse to play the part you're intended, stretch the bounds of possibility against their natural intentions, you get catastrophic results. Ultimately Genocide sets you down the path of destroying many innocent lives, turning the spirit of a misanthropic child into a world-devouring demon and ending a reality. These definitions are by no means definitive but I think they make a lot of sense.
Deltarune goes weird places with these ideas. In particular, it seems that without any outside influence, Kris's body is able to rip its Soul out, the source of our influence on it and has been able to for some time since the start of the game. My personal theory on the matter is that the GONER MAKER was intended to give You, the Soul, an ideal body that would not resist you and allow you to provide the ideal outcomes of whatever experiment that Gaster is conducting in Hometown. On the flip side there must be some sort of opposing force controlling your body and acting against You. You get forced out of the GONER MAKER by someone who speaks distinctly differently from Gaster, and I believe Clam Girl proves that Goners can be disguised as normal people and monsters, so it seems that someone else prevented you from getting your disguised Goner body.
I think part of the reason Toby and co decided to release Chapter 2 and are going to release 3-5 in a batch is because Chapters 3-5 will be the next shift in the narrative arc. I believe the direction this will take is the game taking in this next arc is the body gaining enough power to leave you behind and the cliffhanger for chapter 5 will be the body leaving you behind, walking away the same way you do. This will set up Chapter 6 to be a bit like Chapter 5 of Paper Mario TTYD, where you in your Goner body defeat the corrupted body and win your friends back over.
Boy... That's a lot of autism
Nice! Jevil was definitely quite a bit harder than Spamton, he only took me 2 tries. I think both fights are equally fun and interesting for different reasons tho.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
I haven't gotten around to playing the game yet because reasons but shitposts and gameplay have spoiled a lot of shit for me to begin with so I think this is afair assessment. Spamton NEO is like Mad mew mew where it's an optional harder rematch with a joke character boss with a new gimmick to the fight you need to fulfill specific tasks to access. Both also contain "dummy!" in the battle track, as well, which in the case of mew mew it's because you're literally fighting the dummy fucker again in a new "more powerful body" he stole. Unlike the mad dummy rematch where he's taken control of the mew mew anime girl doll body Spamton's rematch is not port-exclusive. Jevil's just a one off optional hard boss you fight once and never again.
The non-optional spamton NEO is like the sans fight where it serves as a fun challenge you get by going out of your way to get the "bad ending".
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
I’m gonna need to replay through Chapter 2 at some point now that I went back and got Ch. 1’s Egg. Mainly because I really want to know if it just ends as a joke or something.
Also, given the one fusion item you can’t get involves the Thorn Ring and an item that doesn’t exist yet called Pure Crystal, it makes me think that Pure Crystal is going to be gained from something really bad. Like, if Shadow Crystals are from defeated Darkners that went insane from knowledge of the “outside world”, then what Crystal forms from a Lightener? And, in a Snowgrave route, who would be the Lightener closest to going insane?
Also, given the one fusion item you can’t get involves the Thorn Ring and an item that doesn’t exist yet called Pure Crystal, it makes me think that Pure Crystal is going to be gained from something really bad. Like, if Shadow Crystals are from defeated Darkners that went insane from knowledge of the “outside world”, then what Crystal forms from a Lightener? And, in a Snowgrave route, who would be the Lightener closest to going insane?
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2016
IIRC: The description mentions that it was purified by Seam
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2015
Like Coolio said the Pure Crystal is probably going to be several of the Shadow Crystals combined. The real questions are when we'll get it, how we'll have to use it and if there will be more than one.
If the stats for the Twisted Sword are representative of what they'll be worth in the final game then the Pure Crystal will be what unlocks certain end game equipment that will probably be for Kris, and unlock different endings. We won't know for sure until we move onto a chapter that updates the crafting list with another Pure Crystal item, but I also think it'll be likely that the other item won't be available without committing to a pacifist route, like how you can only get the Thorn Ring by at least mostly committing to Snowgrave.
The other possibility is that it will turn the Dark Mantle Seam mentions into the unused Sky Mantle
The other possibility is that it will turn the Dark Mantle Seam mentions into the unused Sky Mantle
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2020
i will take a moment to share... this thing, which i look forward to hearing the song made for it.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2013
Oh yeah, that’s the guy who made the whole “Eldritch Horror Garfield” videos and such. Dude does great work with unsettling imagery and everything.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2021
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2018
Lol! I can't wait until everybody starts shipping Jevil and Spamton with whatever chapter 3's equivalent of them will be. I heard it might be somebody named Mike?
But seriously, it's going to happen and you know it.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
Mike is a fucking dick referenced several times in spamton's dialogue either by name or via spamton getting visibly upset when mentioning shit like "all your friends abandoned you for the slime you are?". Mike is clearly "the guy" spamton was on the phone with that led to his success before his life went on a downward spiral and he got the gaster call. A guy that at some point betrayed spamton and sent him on said downward spiral. Some dumbass people that didn't get why spamton goes "WE DONT NEED MIKE!" and then has a moment where he just goes all quiet befor uttering mikes name again have gome up with some wacky ass theories that fly in the face of reason. Mike is most likely if not definitely going to show up in chapter 3 but whether as an optional boss or a main antagonistic force is unclear. One thing's for sure, Spamton isn't mike and it fucking is wild to me how anyone could even take spamton and mike as the same guy with how spamton talks about the fucker.
Personally, I'm thinking mike might be the guy on the TV at the end because "Mike TV" and the mention of "DON'T LISTEN TO ANYTHING YOU HEAR ON TV!" When spamton's talking about mike.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2018
Also "Mike" Ditka was the star of the [Big Shot] soda commercial IRL... which just so happened to go on air in 1997...
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
That's more than likely a coincidence as Mike Ditka is a famous football player and there's no mention of soda or football.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2018
Eh, I don't know, I wouldn't put it past toby to reference an obscure 90's soda commerical for shits and giggles.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
There's not enough of a solid connection for it to be a direct reference to the soda commercial. I've seen people claim the "now's your chance to be a big shot" sample originates from that commercial when it doesn't. That phrase is not uttered once in the specific commerial narrator voice. that the sample is of when pitched down. What's bugging me about the sample is I have vague ass notions of the commercial it probably came from but much like some other ads I vaguely remember I can't find uploads of.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2016
The reason people bring up the commercial is because it's where the "Now's your chance to be a big shot" sample comes from.
Also Mike is confirmed to be Mike Dawson from Darkseed:
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2015
I've watched the commercial, it's not where the sample comes from.
Look for yourself, not even the same commercial narrator voice as the one sampled.