Undertale

[thegunbuilderguy]

Wait was a scene removed or it just never made it in?

just the flower losing its petal after the fade to black
apparently it got changed with some placeholder red square aswell i think where it's the same used by chara or something
i might be mistaken on that last part and confuse it with something else

 

[Coolio55]

Spoiler

@Deus Exica
I think that the potential twist of Toriel checking out the "How to Raise Humans" book being a plot point on how she's totally out of her depth instead of cute surprise is pretty interesting and very Toby. Reminds me of Toriel's old calendar in UNDERTALE.
I thought that it was very sweet, finding it at the end of Chapter 2. The perfect twist material.

@Lapsus of the bepsus
I kinda agree that Toby fucked up with the titan fight. The climb was cool as hell but for gameplay related reasons the actual fight was much weaker than the knight secret boss and it felt like a total anticlimax.
From the lore up to that point they essentially had this air of near-invulnerability to them. They're fucking giant! Having the SOUL be the secret weapon against them is obvious but it still felt like there was a much better way to go about it.
If Toby had just have you fight a "larval" version and save the real (much crazier) deal for later then it would've been much less disappointing.

As for people saying that the music sucked - I really liked all the ambient church dungeon music in Chapter 4 and the dark knight boss theme. The Tenna boss fight theme is good and I totally forgot about it until @The Lawgiver reminded me
Also, the steam soundtrack just received an update. Jumped from around 400 MB to 2.5 GB

 

[Deus Exica]

Reception seems to be that the chapters are still good... But maybe not AS good as the last two, which is probably a result of many reasons up to and including the long wait. I feel like Toby has sort of put himself in an awkward position, a lose/lose due to the nature of the game itself.

7 chapters, all roughly the length of one run of Undertale, there's bound to be a stinker or two in there somewhere. I know people are really excited about the sheer size of this thing, but if it seriously takes 3 more years to get it all, and it may not even be as satisfying as people hope it is, I can't help but wonder if cutting it down to 5 really solid chapters wouldn't have been a smarter plan.

 

[ruckingfetard]

Gonna be honest, I don't get how Deltarune is supposed to be Toby's like. Magnum opus. Or whatever he considers it, since he claims it's been in the works before Undertale and is supposed to be some sort of big deal. It's way less interesting or unique than Undertale, and that makes me think he's either lying about how much thought he put into it or Undertale is just a successful accident.

The only thing Deltarune does better is I guess updated visuals in some sort of animated scenes? Maybe? I really feel total nothingness for all these characters and it's making me struggle to be invested.

 

[Strangolapreti]

Gonna be honest, I don't get how Deltarune is supposed to be Toby's like. Magnum opus. Or whatever he considers it, since he claims it's been in the works before Undertale and is supposed to be some sort of big deal. It's way less interesting or unique than Undertale, and that makes me think he's either lying about how much thought he put into it or Undertale is just a successful accident.

The only thing Deltarune does better is I guess updated visuals in some sort of animated scenes? Maybe? I really feel total nothingness for all these characters and it's making me struggle to be invested.

I think its less of a magnum opus and more of your dream project? Something that you had in your head for years, meticolously built and tweaked around, something that has grown with you and work at lesser prpjects in order to eventually release and wish to give it justice to your visuon by making not just as good as you possibly can, but something even beyind your own skills.
The thief and the cobbler is probably the closest parallel to this, Richard Williams worked at Who framed Roger Rabbit specifically to get the funds for it, when he received the oscar for his movie, his discourse ended with "The best has yet to come", but instead his movie was scrapped vecause it was taming too long, sold to disney, given to miramax, raped by weinstein and sold with cereals.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

I don't get how Deltarune is supposed to be Toby's like. Magnum opus.

apparently he came up with some sort of super awesome genius ending for a game (lol ive heard that one before in creative writing circles) but gave up when the time came to start working on the actual game. thats deltarune. then a couple years after that he did undertale but i suppose towards the conclusion of the project he probably realized he cant shoehorn his dream ending onto undertale so hes starting over with the deltarune project and loosely reusing undertale assets and ideas

 

[Newcomer 42]

Deltarune is aping Mother 3 and its chapters' structure, but since it's taking forever for each chapter, it feels weaker overall. Worse, it allows third parties to mess with his work and/or his failing health to get in the way, as seen here. Mother 3 also had 7 chapters IIRC, but the first ones were very short, while Chapter 6, the main game, takes like 20 hours to complete.

 

[Rock Eater]

I hope when he does the release of all seven chapters I hope he goes back and fixes some of the writing / character issues.
With how long we waited, I was actually expecting way more content. I hope the rest of the game can come out in the next one to two years.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

Deltarune is aping Mother 3 and its chapters' structure, but since it's taking forever for each chapter, it feels weaker overall. Worse, it allows third parties to mess with his work and/or his failing health to get in the way, as seen here. Mother 3 also had 7 chapters IIRC, but the first ones were very short, while Chapter 6, the main game, takes like 20 hours to complete.

I'd say Chapter 4 forward is the main game. Teenager Lucas, meeting Kumatora, retrieving Duster's memory.
Chapter 6 is a sunflower field, while Chapter 7 is the long legwork to retrieve the needles.

 

[Coolio55]

Spoiler

I think I've finally realized what I liked about Chapter 4 and it wasn't just the better music or dungeon design.
It was giving me that familiar UNDERTALE "uneasy but really engaged"* feeling.
I guess that's why Gerson appears again. Waterfall had the same feeling.

*Shit. I still need to play LISA.
SILENT HILL 2 was similar but the gameplay loop was more rote and methodical - Checking off each door on the list and finding all the puzzle items.
It was weirdly relaxing.

apparently he came up with some sort of super awesome genius ending for a game (lol ive heard that one before in creative writing circles) but gave up when the time came to start working on the actual game. thats deltarune. then a couple years after that he did undertale but i suppose towards the conclusion of the project he probably realized he cant shoehorn his dream ending onto undertale so hes starting over with the deltarune project and loosely reusing undertale assets and ideas

It was more than that.
DELTARUNE was what he originally intended to make but ended up making UNDERTALE instead. All of Kanotyne's card enemy designs (which were featured in Chapter 1) inspired him and he wanted to make a game based on them.
Toby posted twitter screenshots of .txt files from 2014 with early Jevil dialogue and stuff after posting Chapter 1.

 

[Dorothy]

He drew Suzy before he did Undertale.

When he released UT on the switch he started adding connections.

One big one is one NPC (a gaster follower) saying "You should meet my neighbor's daughter, Suzie (spelled like that). In fact the time you'll meet her is soon." (2018 a year before Deltarune 1)

Then said one more thing (im paraphrasing): "In fact, Suzie is the entire reason you're down here."

The fuck did Toby mean by that? The soul was looking for her in UT?

Edit: She's called Suzy in UT.

 

[The oxymoronic European]

From what I've heard, Deltarune (at least the ending of it) was born from a fever dream Toby had when he was really sick. This dream inspired him so much that he made Undertale as a sort of glorified tech demo just to see if he could make what he really wanted to.
Having worked on this (literal) dream project for a decade and a half, I can see how people would consider Deltarune to be Toby's so called Magnum opus.

 

[Dorothy]

Rudy existed in the UT universe too. He lived in Snowdin. He was also besties with Asgore. It's implied he died of old age, his daughters are still around though.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

Then said one more thing (im paraphrasing): "In fact, Suzie is the entire reason you're down here."

The fuck did Toby mean by that? The soul was looking for her in UT?

Spoiler

if this isnt a red herring then its probably related to the final piece of the prophecy in ch4 which we never got to see because ralsei broke it but susie caught a glimpse. we know it involves susie and seems to be something tragic. by ch4 shes becoming pretty powerful and is even able to create a dark fountain so maybe she is really prophesized to do something massive that causes the events of undertale to happen in some sort of alternate universe

 

[Xerxes IX]

Speaking of Mother 3

Spoiler: About the knight

If Dess is really the knight (or even Asriel though this is less likely) how much do you want to bet on multiple references to the final boss Masked Man fight in your final fight with it

 

[Strangolapreti]

shes becoming pretty powerful and is even able to create a dark fountain

You remember when the bird from the ALPHA GAMER DIMENSION was about to create a fountain back in chapter 2?
I have this feeling that she's not "the girl" from the prophecy but another character she somehow replaced instead.

 

[Mr. Bobby Brown]

The Kris rapes the doe when it speaks.

 

[NSJAP]

Another update dropped for THAT scene. Imagery was updated from a boring as fuck dot to a bunch of thorns sprouting. The dot in this case was most likely a placeholder until he could figure out/make a suitable replacement for the rose. Maybe the ESRB or some lame as fuck corporation stepped in and said "dude what the fuck you cant put rape in this game" and told him it had to go? It's a good enough replacement/compromise for the rose that gets the point of the scene across without having to deal with his retard fanbase chimping out because le rape analogy.

Spoiler: Image and Video

View attachment 7477535

View attachment 7477537

I'm still making rapenigga Kris jokes.

Thank you for the new animation of Noelle's hymen breaking during the rape scene, Toby, very poignant.

 

[Dorothy]

You remember when the bird from the ALPHA GAMER DIMENSION was about to create a fountain back in chapter 2?
I have this feeling that she's not "the girl" from the prophecy but another character she somehow replaced instead.

She 100% isn't. It's one of the Holliday sisters. I really think Noelle was supposed to be your lab partner.

 

[Deus Exica]

The only thing Deltarune does better is I guess updated visuals in some sort of animated scenes? Maybe?

I don't think this is true at all. Every mechanic is basically a direct upgrade from Undertale, though yeah, with it being the second game it certainly isn't AS unique. The addition of more RPG mechanics and a party alone adds a nice new layer of strategizing and depth to battles. Once you figure out Undertale, there really isn't much else to discover. I feel like I could wring more out of Deltarune with ease, and going back to Undertale actually feels like quite a step down.

As for being his magnum opus? I don't know. It's hard to say until he either sticks the landing with the ending or fumbles the bag hard. As with all mystery heavy games with lots of wait time someone is going to be disappointed when whatever they've been assuming will happen in their head doesn't happen. I remember people coping back when chapter 2 was still a mystery and people thought Kris was going to be killing people in town to level up and cause the apocalypse.

From a scope perspective, it basically would have been impossible for Toby to make this if Undertale was not the smash hit it was and is probably the top tier of his abilities as the developer he is.

The fuck did Toby mean by that? The soul was looking for her in UT?

It could just be a meta joke because he knew people would go back and see that dialogue retroactively.

That being said I get the feeling Toby is going to pull some shit that will recontextualise Undertale in an interesting way.