Undertale

Had an interesting thought and I needed somewhere to put it down and get opinions.
I think Deltarune is going to be about the dichotomy between being derived by something vs being inspired by something. Basically, was it taken from something and transplanted somewhere new, or was it from somewhere else, and transcended what it is, to become something new.
There is a large through line with things being copies, or things being based on other things and impacted by perception. The prophecy being the story of the game but also is diegetic to the story as a concept that has been copied multiple times is very apt. Also the idea of things being copied, repeated, or mirrored, is a motif that happens frequently.

I really think the ending message of Deltarune is going to be something to the effect of: "Creating based on things you know is fine, but real freedom comes from using what you know to take you somewhere new." Because Toby is sick of people using his ideas to create AUs and fangames when those things prove in their own right that people have the potential to create something new, they just choose to retread the same ground out of misplaced inspiration. Toby started making fangames, but graduated to something greater, so it probably sucks seeing that people aren't understanding how he got to where he is, and choose to make Undertale/Deltarune content instead of their own content inspired by it.
 
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gaysexenjoyer said:
Ye olde hidden gem in the comments
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Its always fascinating looking back on UT and seeing the differences between the fans then vs the fans now.
Is it just me or has the output of the community changed since then? People were so eager to make stupid OC's, or fan comics, or stuff like that in general. I liked engaging with that stuff. Not all of it landed, but every now and then you get some interesting concept and execution. it was fun seeing what people could come up with.
Now it feels like the stuff thats made the most are theory videos and hour-long dissertations on kris's nonbinary status. its retarded. Am I just missing everything interesting here?
 
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Local Wordmason said:
Because Toby is sick of people using his ideas to create AUs and fangames when those things prove in their own right that people have the potential to create something new, they just choose to retread the same ground out of misplaced inspiration.
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When did Toby say he was sick of AUs and fangames? He even hired at least one fangame maker (Undertale RED) to work on Deltarune.
 
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Two Dollars said:
When did Toby say he was sick of AUs and fangames? He even hired at least one fangame maker (Undertale RED) to work on Deltarune.
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I don't think he's "sick" of them, as much as he sees it as lost potential that could be taking the same concept and making it more than the source material, which fits thematically into DR. I think he supports them because its where he came from, but I can't help but see the talk of the "Make your own destiny" as a way to gently push AU and fangame makers to create works inspired from UT and DR rather than derivative of it. I think he sees it more as potentially talented people constraining themselves because they don't want to push themselves past that point where it becomes wholly original. They don't understand that you can be heavily inspired by something, and share a lot of it's creative DNA, but have your own unique identity, so they only see their creations in the scope of what they base it on. Think about it, Undertale wouldn't have even existed if Toby just kept making Earthbound romhacks.
 
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I think because Toby says so little people like to make assumptions about what he thinks and what the "meaning" of his work is (myself included). It's the same reason his "Kris's gender is ambiguous" response is why people have taken it and run wild claiming NONBINARY!
 
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Metallic Blood said:
just fujos being annoyingly autistic
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Yup, that's it. Fujoshits and their muh headcanon are cancer to all fandoms online

Canonically Tenna wanted to know Spamton's secret to becoming a big shot, but before Spamton could come to his office he got the phone call and dipped, Tenna takes Spamton's flight as betrayal but still keeps the pipis he got as a gift from him.
 
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Metallic Blood said:
Wait, is Spamton x Tenna intentionally gay "fetishism" coded in-game? I always thought that ship was just fujos being annoyingly autistic, because heavens forbid two men have any type of relationship that isn't romantic to these people.
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Maybe it's because the Spamton's and Tenna's breakup is very simillar to Toriel's and Asgore's, which is romantic.
Or maybe because in the Doom Board, the Lightners Live minigame plays his theme for some reason.
Or maybe it's because Tenna seems to rely on "mailman" for emotional support when he feels down (the secret cutscene)

Or maybe because they're two very connected Tumbrl Sexymen
 
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Local Wordmason said:
I don't think he's "sick" of them, as much as he sees it as lost potential that could be taking the same concept and making it more than the source material, which fits thematically into DR. I think he supports them because its where he came from, but I can't help but see the talk of the "Make your own destiny" as a way to gently push AU and fangame makers to create works inspired from UT and DR rather than derivative of it. I think he sees it more as potentially talented people constraining themselves because they don't want to push themselves past that point where it becomes wholly original. They don't understand that you can be heavily inspired by something, and share a lot of it's creative DNA, but have your own unique identity, so they only see their creations in the scope of what they base it on. Think about it, Undertale wouldn't have even existed if Toby just kept making Earthbound romhacks
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Toby's other idol, ZUN, was also derivative himself. All the art from the early games, up until EOSD, were traces from manga he read.
 
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Zeus Blue Thunder said:
plays his theme for some reason.
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According to the same logic Spamton x Swatch FAGGOT YAOI SHIP confirmed because they wear the same glasses???

Spamton is a thief, he isn't above stealing Tenna's show's music.
Here's the official Tenna/Spamton storyline from the sword route
1.webp 2.webp3.webp4.webp5.webp6.webp7.webp8.webp9.webp 10.webp11.webp

And spamton's take on it:
why-spamton-hates-tenna-v0-f8x21pk3fx5f1.webp

If fujoshits actually studied the lore they would know that Spamton x Mike is far more likely if they want to shoehorn faggotry so badly with how apologetic Spamton is for him for reasons we don't know
 
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Local Wordmason said:
I really think the ending message of Deltarune is going to be something to the effect of: "Creating based on things you know is fine, but real freedom comes from using what you know to take you somewhere new." Because Toby is sick of people using his ideas to create AUs and fangames when those things prove in their own right that people have the potential to create something new, they just choose to retread the same ground out of misplaced inspiration. Toby started making fangames, but graduated to something greater, so it probably sucks seeing that people aren't understanding how he got to where he is, and choose to make Undertale/Deltarune content instead of their own content inspired by it.
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ONE TRILLION SANS AUS FOR ANON
1753736305059.webp
 
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Local Wordmason said:
Because Toby is sick of people using his ideas to create AUs and fangames when those things prove in their own right that people have the potential to create something new, they just choose to retread the same ground out of misplaced inspiration
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Feel like it's the complete opposite and Gerson's entire purpose was to tell people that taking old ideas and fucking with them to do your own thing was cool. It was embracing fandom more than anything.
 
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Big Shot said:
If fujoshits actually studied the lore they would know that Spamton x Mike is far more likely if they want to shoehorn faggotry so badly with how apologetic Spamton is for him for reasons we don't know
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My theory is that Spamton somehow got an in with Tenna and was Mike. I think that's why he seems to have such a obsession with Mike and whenever he says something like "Are you getting this Mike?" he's mocking Tenna. Sometime afterwards was when he got a call and became a big shot and abandoned Tenna. That's why there's a phone off the hook in the Z-Rank dressing room, that was the last time anyone was in there. Which is why the current "Mikes" don't actually know who the original Mike even is. Hell, even as far as the timeline goes, Queen and Tenna have been in the Dreemur house at the same time, so there's even plausibility of how they interacted.

There's this merch from Fangamer that even shows Spamton wearing a red shirt and yellow tie just like Tenna. Spamton lore says he was originally an Addison, so it makes sense that they would mesh well in the TV world. He also had a thing about impersonating people to get them to like him, and his current form, including the shirt and colored glasses were from when he was trying to imitate a swatch to get back into Queen's palace. I also subscribe to the theory that all of the text in brackets is an attempt at speaking the same way that Tenna does with fancy text, but he can't anymore.
FjZPHlJXwA08LtO.webp

I don't know if that even has anything to do with it, but that's just my take on Spamtenna. I'm tired of shipping in general. I hope that Toby ends Deltarune with none of the characters getting romantically involved as a fuck you to the weirdos that obsess over the romantic lives of fictional characters. I think the thing with Susie and Noelle is gonna be a pretty obvious rugpull too.
 
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