Valencia (Spain) flooding - Flash flooding hits Spain, government decides to ignore it all.

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Tasty Tatty

good opinions, bad grammar.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Didn't want to go to bed without posting this, as it's currently happening.

Valencia was hit by DANA, or a "cold drop"

A cold drop[a] is a term used in Spain and France that has commonly come to refer to any high impact rainfall events occurring in the autumn along the Spanish Mediterranean coast or across France.[1] In Europe, cold drops belong to the characteristics of the Mediterranean climate.[2][3] It is also termed a cut-off low.​

In the Spanish Mediterranean, these events are typically caused by upper-level low pressure systems strangled from the zonal (eastward) circulation displaying stationary or retrograde (westward) circulation. DANA is the Spanish initialism for Depresión Aislada en Niveles Altos.[4]

1. The damage has been catastrophic.
2. The government is doing nothing, it's people organizing themselves to help.
3. The "Youths" are on the loose rioting and stealing from supplies.

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The stream overflows and devastates the entire historic center of Letur (Albacete).
Woman is rescued by emergency services along with her two kittens (in her bag) and her dog
Senior center in Massanasa was completely flooded. Everybody is now safe.
Bridge in Paiporta (Valencia) Collapsed.
Full thread.

While the government is -until this moment- not sending the army, Bukele and Milei offered help.

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"The King sends the Royal Guard and his security team to help in the affected regions by the DANA"

So many people got trapped in their houses and died trying to save their cars when the water was coming. Earlier, 60 people dead were reported. Last I checked, it was 150. But the people who are there are saying the number is much, much higher, hundreds of them, reason why media isn't allowed in to film. They're talking about 800 people missing. The local governments has set up the "Feria de Valencia", a mega stadium, to keep the bodies for autopsies.

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Spainball, a meme group is so far the only group that's actually doing something. Only via Dms and Whatsapp, they've movilized the whole country and manage to gather around 50 (yes, fifty) tons of supplies from all over the country. They also got trailers, volunteers, money. People in Valencia are saying only their trucks are arriving, but so far, so little or nothing from the goverment.

One of many Spainball's containers.

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"Not even 10% of what we have now".

People are, of course, mad. The few independent journalists going (and mainstream media are mad that they are going) are showing people screaming against the government and how they are rather giving money to "refugees" and putting them in luxury hotels while people are now sleeping in gyms and stadiums for two nights already after losing everything.

Of course (this after Spain decided to withdraw some logistic support for Israel)

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Now, if you wonder why the situation is this bad...

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Their current government, for the past years, has been removing all the dams to fight climate change. The ones that survived kept the situation for getting even worse. One of them, built by Franco, the other one, by the Romans.

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I'll update with more info tomorrow. Please, keep Spain in your prayers if you can. If there is any way to donate money, I'll let you know.
 
This is fucking crazy. Climate change, incompetence, bad luck? All of the three?

I am annoyed by the climate fags as much as the next guy, but is this still a "normal" occurence or not?
 
Their current government, for the past years, has been removing all the dams to fight climate change. The ones that survived kept the situation for getting even worse. One of them, built by Franco, the other one, by the Romans.
We are reaching Facebook Tier boomer unfiltered repost behavior.
But since we are already here. I'm going to be that guy:

Were the dams removed to fight climate change or for other reasons? Where the damns really in the position to help if they were still there? Would they have made a difference in relation to the huge amounts of precipitation of rain?

Or we can just trust that random account uncritically :story:
 
The former colony of Spain, Florida, got hit by two massive hurricanes and now the nation itself is getting flooded by a massive downpour. What did the Spanish do to anger God so much? They are like the last religious people in Western Europe. Hope all the Iberian Kiwis are ok.
 
I am annoyed by the climate fags as much as the next guy, but is this still a "normal" occurence or not?
It is. Valencia typically gets pretty heavy rain around October, sometimes peaking at well over 200mm (edit: records show over 800mm in a day in the 80s) which makes the claims of "a year's worth of rain in a day" utter bunk. Downpours like this happen two or three times a decade, but until recently the subsequent flooding was kept under control. edit: Floods like this happened every few years until the mid 20th century.

Were the dams removed to fight climate change or for other reasons?
They were removed for a variety of reasons, usually some variation of "restoring nature", but mostly because dams are considered to be sources of methane.

Where the damns really in the position to help if they were still there? Would they have made a difference in relation to the huge amounts of precipitation of rain?
Many of them were flood control dams, so yes.
 
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The former colony of Spain, Florida, got hit by two massive hurricanes and now the nation itself is getting flooded by a massive downpour. What did the Spanish do to anger God so much? They are like the last religious people in Western Europe. Hope all the Iberian Kiwis are ok.
It is a HAARP weather weapon. They pulled back on their funding of Israel's terror campaign so they dusted off the big guns.
 

A pharmacists sent her husband an audio while she thought she was gonna die. It says to tell their kid that she loves him and, to the husband, that she's never loved anyone like she loves him. Fortunately, she got rescued.

We are reaching Facebook Tier boomer unfiltered repost behavior.
But since we are already here. I'm going to be that guy:

Were the dams removed to fight climate change or for other reasons? Where the damns really in the position to help if they were still there? Would they have made a difference in relation to the huge amounts of precipitation of rain?

Or we can just trust that random account uncritically :story:
The dams from that region were there specifically because DANA is a phenomenon that affects them directly every other time. The Romans knew, Franco knew. It's like how anyone living in the Pacific coast knows about El Niño and that once it hits, your house it's gonna get flooded. People have been knowing about El Niño since before Columbus made it here.

About 50 years ago, Valencia had an even bigger flooding, reason why the dams were built. For what I read, not all worked, but they did keep some damage at bay.

Now, here is media bragging about it:

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"Rivers flowing again: How Spain became a referent by demolishing dams".

For what I read, they destroyed more than 200 of them. Many of them were built by Franco. The new government, obsessed with getting rid of his legacy, destroyed them due to ecological concerns (the excuse, of course) and, I am sure, because Franco built them as well. The result now is about 1000 people missing or dead while they all are blaming "climate change". It's not, I just explained above why it's not.

So, tl;dr: Yes, Spain current socialist government decided to remove dams from an area that is vulnerable to flooding and has been so since the times of the Romans. Now, once the region was highly affected, they are blaming everything else but their own actions.

Hope that helps.
 
About 50 years ago, Valencia had an even bigger flooding, reason why the dams were built. For what I read, not all worked, but they did keep some damage at bay.
There was also the Plan Sur, which was a project with the goal of diverting the course of the Río Turia (which used to run throught the middle of the city) southwards with the goal of preventing things like this. The project was done as a response to the 1957 Valencia flooding
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This article talks about the disaster and offers anecdotes from some people who lived throught it (it's spanish). The 1957 flooding resulted in 81 deaths, if the current estimations are right, then this flooding will be the worst flooding in the history of the city
 
@Tasty Tatty

I feel sorry for these guys. I feel like a huge scapegoat to poor modern government policy and action is screaming climate change at something rather than looking at what caused something. They destroyed these damns, but the likely narrative will be global warming and how we need to fund programs that do nothing. In a lot of these places these disasters were a fact of life for generations, something to struggle with and modern technology has made that struggle easier, but I feel like there's a huge generational shift where most Gen X to Gen Alpha grew up never really knowing about the cycle of these phenomena.

Government's first action is effectively to kill any civilian organized rescue effort in a lot of places rather than pre-organize efforts in the worst case scenario. Florida actually did this very well with both Helene and Milton where state troopers and cops had access to civilian groups and delegated work to them. In Brazil's flooding and this it sounds like the Government outright does not want civilians making them look both ineffective and incompetent. I know the British also have flooding where they basically do nothing to stop it and every so often a town will flood and bunch of people will die in the ensuing flood.
 
Been watching this unfurl in the news, it’s absolutely horrific.
The damage has been catastrophic.
It looks terrible. Hope all Spanish kiwis are safe and unharmed
Re: the dams. Yeah the removal of dams is one of those ecological sacred cows. And sometimes it genuinely does help things, but it often doesn’t take into account what’s happened since the dam was built. Which is usually a LOT of development in the downstream area. That gets built because ‘it’s not floodplain.’ Well it is floodplain if the dam goes.
The area I was born in floods regularly, and flooded quite badly (nothing like this, more low level/massive area stuff) a few years ago. Everyone was shrieking climate change but this area has always flooded. When you look into why it was so impactful the last time you find human incompetence:
- The flood defences were poorly maintained
-dykes and ditches were not dredged ‘to save the council money.’
-massive amounts of new development in the flood plain including entire marsh/wetland ecosystems drained and built on with shitty new builds and concrete.
-smaller farms with areas of hedgerow and wild land go bankrupt and are assimilated into either bigger megafarms or sold to wind turbine development.
Sympathies anyway. It looks awful
 
@Tasty Tatty

Out of curiosity, could you post some links talking about the 200 dams being decommissioned? I believe you but I'd like to read the primary sources. It can be in Spanish, not an issue.
 
The Global Warming excuse is narcissistic. Even if you take their word, the increase caused by GHG is around 7% (and it is not a record flooding anyway) and it shouldn't justify not having responsibility. The removal of dams was a BAD MOVE.

They obsession with methane/CH4 is dumb because it only stays several years in atmosphere compared to CO2.

Ironically floods can also cause degradation of environment. I understand making dams better for fish by putting ladders, but REMOVING them despite being put there for a good reason?
https://theconversation.com/when-dams-cause-more-problems-than-they-solve-removing-them-can-pay-off-for-people-and-nature-137346 https://archive.is/710TU

https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/08/removing-dams-europe-river-restoration/
https://archive.is/u62WN
 
I think people don't realise how much we've reshaped nature just by existing, and how certain areas we haven't, are still dangerous.

Here, flooding is also common due to el Niño and both the gov and private allow and encourage building homes around those areas where it's been known for centuries that are vulnerable to get completely flooded. Then, when the water rises and people lose everything, they blame global warming.

Thing is, the damage is already made. You can't move full cities to another area because those settlements already exist and people don't want to leave, but the solution is simply seeing them underwater every five years or so. We are fucked.

@Tasty Tatty

Out of curiosity, could you post some links talking about the 200 dams being decommissioned? I believe you but I'd like to read the primary sources. It can be in Spanish, not an issue.
I'm gonna try to find some later, I've been busy these past days.
 
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