Valorant

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1) You install a piece of software from a company.
2) You use another piece of software or hardware that company doesn't want you to.
3) To stop you, it functionally disables your operating system.
4) I believe that's wrong because no company should have that kind of power, because its ripe for abuse and infringes people's private property rights.

Well, you got the facts wrong, so let's get them right:
  1. You install software from a company.
  2. This software requires a security-hardened computer that will aggressively quarantine certain types of malware
  3. You try use a piece of hardware/software in conjunction with this software that behaves exactly like the kind of malware your system is configured to quarantine.
  4. The software alerts your operating system.
  5. The operating system verifies the malware signature and quarantines the hardware/software for violating system-level security configuration.
The salient detail that you and everyone else defending the cheaters is overlooking is that the cheat device violates system-level security. That's why this particular cheat device gets blacklisted. Riot anti-cheat isn't blacklisting it. Windows blacklists it because the device behaves exactly like malware. Windows would blacklist any device detected as behaving this way. Just because you bought it yourself doesn't matter; a GPU you bought off a shady Aliexpress vendor with corrupted firmware designed to extract your keys would get blacklisted for the same reason.

It is extremely, extremely, extremely stupid to buy a device like this, not just because cheating is gay, but because it's the equivalent of buying a needle from some random hobo who just assures you it's clean, and injecting it straight into your veins.
 
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My server, my rules.
Completely ridiculous and untenable. If we followed that logic, you could dump literal malware on people's computers. There has to be a limiting principle.
Windows blacklists it because the device behaves exactly like malware.
In law, there's something called the "But For" test that determines responsibility. "But for" the anti-cheat, there would have been no hardware or software failures, and the action that caused this "but for" instance was intentional.

The simple argument is: A company should not have the ability to cause your personal hardware or software to fail because that's a violation of your property rights and opens up too much potential for abuse.

That's the argument. It's that simple and you can agree or disagree, but that's what I and most other people believe, and nothing I've read in this thread has changed my mind on that.

and no, it isn't about "defending cheaters." I have zero love for cheaters. But it's a false dichotomy to say "You either support cheaters or you support heavy-handed, invasive anti-cheat software."

That's all I have to say on the matter, and I don't intend to argue back and forth any further. I've made my point and I'll let others decide if its reasonable or not.

becoming increasingly apparent that you aren't interested in having an honest discussion.
Oh, spare me. I've been nothing but polite to you. You're the only one acting like a dick. I've been way nicer to you than anyone else in the thread, and way nicer than most KF users are in general.

If you really can't handle a very minor amount of disagreement and banter, you don't have skin thick enough for this site and need to go somewhere else.

...

All this tech autism is so damn silly. The whole thread reads like this:

"Did you hear about that company that puts bombs in their cars?"

"Um ackshually it's not a 'car bomb.' It's an electrical charger that sends a signal to the engine that causes it to overheat and explode *like* a bomb, but it isn't a bomb in and of itself, and it is only activated as an anti-theft measure when someone steals the car and the theft is verified by local law enforcement and an employee at the company manually okays the process and the EULA clearly says this is what they can do if you purchase the vehicle from them."
 
All this tech autism is so damn silly. The whole thread reads like this:

"Did you hear about that company that puts bombs in their cars?"

"Um ackshually it's not a 'car bomb.' It's an electrical charger that sends a signal to the engine that causes it to overheat and explode *like* a bomb, but it isn't a bomb in and of itself, and it is only activated as an anti-theft measure when someone steals the car and the theft is verified by local law enforcement and an employee at the company manually okays the process and the EULA clearly says this is what they can do if you purchase the vehicle from them."
I liked this part enough that I wanted it to have its own post without all the extra textwalls :P
 
Completely ridiculous and untenable.
No. What makes it tenable is that you choose to install the software when connecting to the server.
If we followed that logic, you could dump literal malware on people's computers.
You have to install the software.
There has to be a limiting principle.
You are choosing to install the software.
there would have been no hardware or software failures
There's no failure. The fault is caused by the hardware acting out of line.
I've been nothing but polite to you.
You've politely ignored everything I said and refuse to do anything but argue based entirely on feelings.
All this tech autism is so damn silly.
Ignorantia juris non excusat
Wow, neat, a bunch of headlines from years before this latest fuckup. Too bad the proper context is the topic of the thread, retard.

You missed the point, too.
What fuckup? Your only argument is based on ignorance, tone, optics, and a blackpilled "what if" about consumer culture as a whole. The topic of the thread is VALORANT. Not just a featured post 4 pages in.
I liked this part enough that I wanted it to have its own post without all the extra textwalls :P
1. You are not forced to install Vanguard.
2. Don't install bombs in your vehicle.
3. Riot Games would be held responsible for legal damages. None have been presented.
4. You're conflating the ability for software to be malicious with malicious software.
5. Theoretically, you're a voting-age adult. You decide what goes on your computer.

Misunderstanding what Riot did and being ignorant about software in general only makes it more likely that they made the correct decision. What you're doing is called poisoning the well.
 
Wow, neat, a bunch of headlines from years before this latest fuckup. Too bad the proper context is the topic of the thread, retard.

You missed the point, too.
People have been saying for 25 years that DRM & anticheat will bankrupt game companies because gamers will rise up in outrage over the unconscionable violations of their rights. Hasn't happened, isn't going to happen. "OMG even cheat devices got banned!" is just the latest "outrage" that will have a $0.00 impact on sales.

Completely ridiculous and untenable.
It's been tenable since the first centralized, online software went live decades ago, and will continue to be tenable.

In law, there's something called the "But For" test that determines responsibility. "But for" the anti-cheat, there would have been no hardware or software failures, and the action that caused this "but for" instance was intentional.

You bought a device with unsigned firmware that does DMA attacks on software. You plugged it into a computer with hardware and software that, by design and intent, blacklists devices with unsigned firmware when DMA attacks are detected. It detected the DMA and blacklisted the device. "But for" doesn't apply when you use a device out of spec.

The simple argument is: A company should not have the ability to cause your personal hardware or software to fail because that's a violation of your property rights and opens up too much potential for abuse.
It didn't cause your hardware or software to fail. Your hardware (specifically, the IOMMU device on your motherboard) and software (specifically, your operating system & security software) worked as designed. Your hardware and software are designed to detect and quarantine devices with unsigned firmware that illegally access memory. They did that.

I've made my point
Your point is based on a fiction - the notion that the computer was broken. It wasn't. It worked as designed. If you don't want your computer to detect & quarantine malicious devices and software, then you need to disable that level of security on your machine.

I will break it down for you at a very high level:
  1. You are using somebody else's service.
  2. That service requires you to adopt a certain security framework on your end in order to access it.
  3. This framework includes technology to quarantine devices that attempt to bypass the framework
  4. You bought a device to try and bypass the security framework and infiltrate the service
  5. The framework you adopted correctly detected your bypass device and took the prescribed remedial action
Don't like it? Don't use the service.
 
Hasn't happened, isn't going to happen. "OMG even cheat devices got banned!" is just the latest "outrage" that will have a $0.00 impact on sales.
“I will happily accept the spiked dildo into my anus, provided the steps you take are to my liking”

I’d rather just not have the dildo
 
All this tech autism is so damn silly. The whole thread reads like this:

"Did you hear about that company that puts bombs in their cars?"

"Um ackshually it's not a 'car bomb.' It's an electrical charger that sends a signal to the engine that causes it to overheat and explode *like* a bomb, but it isn't a bomb in and of itself, and it is only activated as an anti-theft measure when someone steals the car and the theft is verified by local law enforcement and an employee at the company manually okays the process and the EULA clearly says this is what they can do if you purchase the vehicle from them."
"Did you hear about that company whose cars won't start if you try to bypass the key and hotwire it?"

"Um yes. Pretty standard anti-theft technology."

"Well I bought a $6000 auto-hotwiring device from China that you can plug into the center console to bypass the key."

"And...?"

"It won't start! I have to use the key!"

"Okay, well, uh...that's what it's supposed to do."

"But it won't even allow my auto-hotwire device to connect to the car's center console at all!"

"Yeah, that was a stupid thing to buy."

"They broke my hotwire device! I should be able to sue them."

"Good luck with that."
 
People keep bringing up "they signed the contract, it's what they agreed to!" like its a win.

You shouldn't be able to agree to it, because it's bad on its face. We have all sorts of laws against bad or exploitive contracts because even if people "agree" to it, they're still being victimized.

"But the contract!" is not an argument.

[Textwall]
"Good luck with that."
Sheesh, way to miss the point and fail at making your own allegory. "Okay, but if all the facts of the situation were completely different, you'd be wrong!"
 
People keep bringing up "they signed the contract, it's what they agreed to!" like its a win.

You shouldn't be able to agree to it, because it's bad on its face. We have all sorts of laws against bad or exploitive contracts because even if people "agree" to it, they're still being victimized.

"But the contract!" is not an argument.
Imagine the level of benefit your technical knowledge could do at your profession and to those around you if you weren’t a peat-eating pedant
um ackshually it's called "Peat Moss" so therefore your entire argument is invalid and eating Peat Moss is good.
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Not even the people actually cheating in Valorant agree with your arguments.
 
With all of this Vanguard talk, has Riot and Tencent considered licensing it out to other companies to use in other games? If yes, then how much would it cost to get a Vanguard license?

And I don't want to imagine if this actually happens, and single-player games also start using Vanguard AC, solely to brick people's computers if they try to mod out the woke shit.
 
Not even the people actually cheating in Valorant agree with your arguments.
Why would I care what they think?

Their interest is cheating in Valorant. If one method doesn't work their only interest is finding another one that does.

My interest is in consumer rights and that a company can't remotely fuck up my property based solely on their own discretion.
 
With all of this Vanguard talk, has Riot and Tencent considered licensing it out to other companies to use in other games? If yes, then how much would it cost to get a Vanguard license?

And I don't want to imagine if this actually happens, and single-player games also start using Vanguard AC, solely to brick people's computers if they try to mod out the woke shit.
Why wouldn't you want to think about it? If Riot had bricked people's computers, as posters here would have you believe, there would already be lawsuits.
What Riot did in this instance was make it so that DMA devices couldn't access protected memory by getting Windows to do its job.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/devtest/dma-verification
Riot doesn't plan to license its in-house anti-cheat, but that doesn't mean it won't change in the future.
Those people may as well not even exist
Well, yeah, because they disagree with you. You're in your own world. The two of you are just spamming, now.
 
Thiletonomics bro I just wanted to know if klab's explanation swayed you even slightly because I'd really like to see what an objective third party thinks of the shit he says.
because they disagree with you.
No, nigga, because they're retarded cheating scumbags and nobody should respect their opinions either way. If anything I hate shitheads like this more than you do because by being cheating scumbags they give companies the cover to do shady, heavy-handed and anti-consumer bullshit.

We haven't even gotten into the huge number of people who are completely innocent and still had their computers fucked up by Vanguard and had to reinstall windows. Totally innocent people are having to completely reinstall their operating systems because Vanguard read a false alarm and bricked them. Y'know, the exact reason companies shouldn't have the power to fuck up people's personal hardware in the first place.
 
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