Valorant

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You purposefully walked into a thread about something you didn't like
I came here when I saw the news post to see what the fuss was about. When I see there were like four people actually defending the bullshit anti-cheat, I wanted to know what their arguments were to see if they had merit. They were the most retarded thing I ever heard.

If you like Valorant as a game, there's nothing wrong with that. But you can love a game while not liking everything the company behind it does. You don't have to be a corporation's bitch.
 
I came here when I saw the news post to see what the fuss was about. When I see there were like four people actually defending the bullshit anti-cheat, I wanted to know what their arguments were to see if they had merit. They were the most retarded thing I ever heard.

If you like Valorant as a game, there's nothing wrong with that. But you can love a game while not liking everything the company behind it does. You don't have to be a corporation's bitch.
This thread was created in 2020, and the feature posted a few days ago was on page 4. Suffice it to say that the vast majority of people here are tourists.
"Drama among Riot Games fans as the company commits PR suicide bragging their terrible anti-cheat causes hardware faults."
Drama - subsided
PR suicide - everyone realized only cheaters were affected. For some reason, the average person isn't as interested in tone policing as the average neogaf/kf member.
hardware faults - doesn't mean what you thought it did - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentation_fault
What I mean is, you realized at some point that nothing had happened and needed to shift your argument toward "the greater conversation" rather than admitting that you were influenced to think a certain way by the feature's title.
People don't like Vanguard, people don't like Valorant. But they can choose whether to install Vanguard, which is required to play Valorant.
The anti-cheat is no more bullshit than it was 6 years ago. You should understand the implications of running ANY software as Administrator, regardless of who authored it.
 
Irrelevant. It's not Riot's job to meddle with any settings in my O.S. without my consent.
You seem to be reasonable, Vanguard is not messing with the settings of your OS, it's just letting your OS know that some hardware is doing things that it shouldn't, I don't see how this is an anti-consumer practice because their property was not damaged, they can still use it to cheat in other games after reinstalling the OS and firmware of the DMA card, and if they hadn't cheated in the first place this would have never happened, users are willingly installing Vanguard to be able to play, in order to detect cheating it needs ring 0 access, and using said ring 0 access at it did was tell your OS the cheating hardware existed and it was prevented from doing it's thing, Vanguard didn't do it, the OS did what it should in that situation.

It's not anti-consumer to tell your OS that you are using a device that's doing something it shouldn't, and again, you can keep using that hardware to cheat in other games, nothing was damaged, if your argument is that you should be able to use whatever hardware or software you want when playing their games then that's just wrong, they have a right to check if you are cheating, if you don't want that to happen then simply don't play their games, your property rights are not being infringed and if you think they are I would like to hear why you think that.

Imagine you go to a powerlifting competition wearing a trenchcoat, under it you have a bench shirt, slingshot, knee wraps, elbow wraps, two lever belts and smelling salts, "I'm ready to compete!" you say, then the organizers say that this is an unequipped competition, tell you to take off your trenchcoat (ring 0), and when they see the equipment you have they don't allow you to compete, you still own all of that lifting equipment, you just can't use it in that competition, you can use it anywhere else, is it anti-consumer to now allow you to compete? Nothing was destroyed, if you don't want to take off your trenchcoat then you can avoid it by simply not joining the competition (playing Riot games); the organizers of the powerlifting event define the rules of participation, they need to check for unfair advantages, detecting that requires a deep inspection and you can avoid it by not participating.

The analogy is not meant to be 100% perfect and I'm sure you can poke a hole in it, but you get the point right? I'm addressing you because you seem reasonable rather than being triggered, ideological or not understand what's even going on, you seem defend this because you think it's the right to do, but I don't see how it's anti-consumer in the first place.
 
It is Riot's job to ensure the integrity of their online video games, no matter how much you like or dislike their video games. In fact, the user base demands it because they don't want to play against cheaters.
That is well and good, and Riot Games would be at fault if they did not. My problem is not with the end, but with the means.
The fact that it's been 6 years and Vanguard is still around shows that there is a group of people (whatever you think of them) willing to compromise their computers in this way to play a video game with whatever competitive integrity it affords.
And I am well within my right not to compromise, and to disagree with them, because it creates a slippery slope that has been discussed at length. First it's this, then it may be something more aggressive, and something that has the potential to compromise the integrity of all users' computers. I get it, it does no permanent harm, the thing it does is on a limited scale, and it fixes something that Windows did not detect.

Now let's say you invite me to your house and I rummage through your valuables, then I rearrange them in whichever way I see fit. I didn't take anything from you. I didn't cause you significant harm. This might have even been to your benefit, you didn't realize that your safe combination was 1111. Would you consent to it? What guarantees I don't break something by accident? What guarantees nothing gets lost? What guarantees I may not use any information you may have to my benefit?

Would you consent to it then?

If the answer is no, then you get my point. Your house, your rules. My computer, my rules.

You might argue that by agreeing to Valorant's EULA, I have agreed to them pushing updates like the one we're discussing. Would you consent to me doing whatever I want with your property for the sole fact that you invited me to your house once?

What about Valorant is so attractive to you as an individual that the government must get involved to make it palatable by your standards?
Nothing. I don't play Valorant, or any online multiplayer game. I don't require the government to get involved, I only ask it to take action when Riot Games crosses a line, and I would ask the same if it were CAPCOM, Square Enix, Activision-Blizzard or EA.

Not to mention:

there's a power imbalance between some idiot using cheats and a company pushing software that can attack your devices. Malware or no, brick or no, there should be boundaries to what companies can do, and that should be one.
And that is why:
This is an anti-consumer practice. It needs to stop.

>any settings
Does it not seem asinine that for your statement to function, it has to be dumbed down and made less specific? What settings were changed, and how does it affect your PC's operation?
You're already required to have TPM, Core Isolation (Memory Integrity), and whatever else enabled on your computer to play. The precedent is already there.
It's a precedent that should not exist, and, as evidenced by the backlash, there's a substantial amount of people that don't want there to be more precedents.

You seem to be reasonable, Vanguard is not messing with the settings of your OS, it's just letting your OS know that some hardware is doing things that it shouldn't, I don't see how this is an anti-consumer practice because their property was not damaged, they can still use it to cheat in other games after reinstalling the OS and firmware of the DMA card,
If they need to reinstall the O.S. and firmware of the DMA card, clearly a damage was done, and that's what makes it anti-consumer. This is made worse by the fact that it was done as an update, mandatorily and unilaterally, on the part of Riot Games.

It's safe to say that people did not consent to this when Valorant was first launched, and the fact that there is a backlash against this now is a clear indicator that they would not have consented to it had they known beforehand, regardless of the actual damage done, or whatever Riot Games' intent was. I'm sure it was well-meaning, as much as well-meaning can be for a videogame developer these days, which isn't saying much anyway.

and if they hadn't cheated in the first place this would have never happened, users are willingly installing Vanguard to be able to play, in order to detect cheating it needs ring 0 access, and using said ring 0 access at it did was tell your OS the cheating hardware existed and it was prevented from doing it's thing, Vanguard didn't do it, the OS did what it should in that situation.
Vanguard told the O.S. to do something the O.S. did not originally detect. It's not Riot Games' job to fix O.S. settings, and that seems to be the core issue here.

It's not anti-consumer to tell your OS that you are using a device that's doing something it shouldn't,
That's the thing. It is. Riot Games took it upon itself to push an update that makes a change to the O.S. settings. That is not their job.

and again, you can keep using that hardware to cheat in other games, nothing was damaged,
I reiterate:
If they need to reinstall the O.S. and firmware of the DMA card, clearly a damage was done, and that's what makes it anti-consumer. This is made worse by the fact that it was done as an update, mandatorily and unilaterally, on the part of Riot Games.

if your argument is that you should be able to use whatever hardware or software you want when playing their games then that's just wrong, they have a right to check if you are cheating, if you don't want that to happen then simply don't play their games, your property rights are not being infringed and if you think they are I would like to hear why you think that.
That is not, and has never been, my argument. I stated I have the right to use hardware in whatever way I like. If that conflicts with Valorant's TOS, then Riot Games are free to ban my account, or my IP, or take any other measure to keep me from playing their game. But they don't have the right to take it upon themselves to determine what my O.S. should do.

Imagine you go to a powerlifting competition wearing a trenchcoat, under it you have a bench shirt, slingshot, knee wraps, elbow wraps, two lever belts and smelling salts, "I'm ready to compete!" you say, then the organizers say that this is an unequipped competition, tell you to take off your trenchcoat (ring 0), and when they see the equipment you have they don't allow you to compete, you still own all of that lifting equipment, you just can't use it in that competition, you can use it anywhere else, is it anti-consumer to now allow you to compete? Nothing was destroyed, if you don't want to take off your trenchcoat then you can avoid it by simply not joining the competition (playing Riot games); the organizers of the powerlifting event define the rules of participation, they need to check for unfair advantages, detecting that requires a deep inspection and you can avoid it by not participating.

The analogy is not meant to be 100% perfect and I'm sure you can poke a hole in it, but you get the point right? I'm addressing you because you seem reasonable rather than being triggered, ideological or not understand what's even going on, you seem defend this because you think it's the right to do, but I don't see how it's anti-consumer in the first place.
Now look at my analogy, and perhaps you will see my point, as I see yours.
 
It's a precedent that should not exist, and, as evidenced by the backlash, there's a substantial amount of people that don't want there to be more precedents.
What backlash? Again, comments on any article about the update are full of people saying the issue was blown out of proportion and that no damage was done.
It's safe to say that people did not consent to this when Valorant was first launched
People consented to a Ring 0 always-on (unless exited out) boot driver (unless booted in safe mode) anticheat. Something far more aggressive and potentially harmful than what the Vanguard update amounted to.
If they need to reinstall the O.S. and firmware of the DMA card, clearly a damage was done,
You don't need to. You can disable memory security in the BIOS.
I stated I have the right to use hardware in whatever way I like.
Then disable memory security. DMA devices should never have been able to access protected memory to begin with.

The issue is that you're applying an incredible amount of ignorance to make your argument. You're fighting a man made of straw that exists entirely in your head.
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Tone policing is the act of arguing against what Riot Games said rather than what actually happened. Concerns about Vanguard as a software are valid, but that has NOTHING to do with the feature.
 
RAC recognized a suspicious device that was
  1. Spoofing a benign device
  2. Directly accessing an unauthorized memory space (read: another program's memory space) and injecting unauthorized code.
See, here's the issue you don't get. The access and code injection are authorized. By me. The user. The guy who owns the hardware and the OS. If Riot Games doesn't want me doing that, they can ban my ass from their game, not alter my OS configuration against my will.
 
See, here's the issue you don't get. The access and code injection are authorized. By me. The user. The guy who owns the hardware and the OS. If Riot Games doesn't want me doing that, they can ban my ass from their game, not alter my OS configuration against my will.
Oh, actually, my bad. Vanguard didn't even need to change any OS settings to do what they did. It was handled entirely just by communicating with the operating system. So no, not even your OS configuration was altered. LMFAO
No, it's not.
DMA allows devices attached to a system bus to copy data between themselves and the physical address space without involving the CPU, they'd simply leverage the DMA coprocessor while the CPU did other things. Early DMA implementations had unfettered access to the physical address space which would allow them to read and write to any location in memory regardless of what that region belonged to; malicious hardware could read from and write to locations other than its own assigned buffers, such as kernel page table entries.
DMA remapping allows operating systems to enforce restrictions on DMA devices and enforces these restrictions via the IOMMU. DMA remapping requires support by both the device driver and device itself. There are still many peripherals which do not support DMA remapping at the hardware level so protection against DMA attacks is an opt-in feature on Windows.
Valorant will refuse to start if it detects that Secure Boot has been disabled or if any modifications have been made to the Secure Boot keystore.
Valorant will refuse to start if it detects that Driver Signing Enforcement has been disabled. Only signed drivers can be loaded.
Valorant will refuse to start if there are any signed drivers loaded which indicate that their devices do not support DMAr
Valorant leverages Kernel DMA Protection to enforce DMAr on all loaded drivers. All devices that use DMA must support DMAr and Windows will enforce memory access control through the IOMMU. This forecloses on the use of legacy devices such as some sound cards which support DMA but not DMAr
The DMA cheat cards do not have signed drivers of their own, and even if they did, they would be detected and blocked. Instead, they present themselves to the operating system as SATA or NVMe drives which allows them to use the generic WHQL drivers that are packaged with Windows. These drivers support DMAr on a per-device basis meaning that the same signed driver can be used for a device that supports DMAr and a device that does not support DMAr, there's no need to ship two different drivers.
On a well behaved system, the non-supporting device would be detected as not supporting DMAr despite being controlled by a signed driver that supports DMAr.
The DMA cheat cards present themselves as SATA/NVMe cards that support DMAr, this is necessary for them to be initialized with a signed driver and not have Valorant throw a fit. However, their whole purpose is to do the very thing that DMAr is designed to prevent, snoop memory that belongs to the kernel and running processes. Ergo, they can't actually support DMAr even if they have to say that they do.
The DMA cheat card either respects DMAr, or it doesn't. If it doesn't respect DMAr despite saying that it does then it will try and read from a region of memory which it is not allowed to read from and trigger a DRIVER_VERIFIER_DMA_VIOLATION BSOD.
A firmware update will stop the device from making bad access requests -- thus completely defeating its purpose -- but it won't allow DMAr to be bypassed.
NOTHING WAS TOUCHED
Wait but if the Microsoft signature is so safe why did it fail so badly with CrowdStrike and SolarWinds?
SolarWinds was a collection of network intrusions conducted on the back of stolen credentials, software vulnerabilities, and supply chain attacks. It's certainly a case study in corporate security but to my knowledge the Windows Kernel was not itself exploited.

CrowdStrike is much more instructive on this point because it involved a signed kernel driver and represents a failure on the part of both CrowdStrike and Microsoft.

Prior to Microsoft signing a driver for installation on Windows it subjects that driver to a rigorous set of tests to analyze its behaviour and test for bugs such as memory leaks and compliance with code integrity requirements. These tests have become more rigorous over time, but there are plenty of older signed drivers with known vulnerabilities which can still be loaded.

In the case of CrowdStrike, the CrowdStrike driver was marked as mandatory, meaning that it had to be loaded with the operating system and couldn't be loaded afterward. It also had a built-in virtual machine used to parse definition files as a means of updating anti-virus detections without having to update the driver itself.

Two problems existed in CrowdStrike's implementation:

1.) There was no verification of the integrity of the patch definition files.

2.) If the embedded virtual machine was fed a bunch of null data (zeroes), it would construct and dereference a null pointer. This caused the driver to crash, and since it was marked as mandatory, the OS crashed.

Neither one of these were picked up by Microsoft's verification because simple static analysis tools don't construct test data and no one thought to test against a bunch of null data because definition updates should never contain null data.

Microsoft is in the process of reworking Windows to both make recovery from these kinds of problems easier and prevent them from happening going forward.

Also I'm genuinely asking, if Tencent and CCP suddenly decides to use Vanguard as a backdoor to steal data or masscrash PCs wouldn't that happen in like, seconds or minutes?
Microsoft doesn't just sign drivers for anyone, driver developers need to have an account and participate in Microsoft's WHQL program; Microsoft will not sign drivers that are published anonymously. If Tencent were to do something like that, even negligently rather than deliberately, they'd be subject to significant scrutiny and possible blacklisting. It would be little different than robbing a bank using a note written on the back of one's own business card. Attackers would much rather take anonymous paths such as zero-day privilege escalations.
 
Oh, actually, my bad. Vanguard didn't even need to change any OS settings to do what they did. It was handled entirely just by communicating with the operating system. So no, not even your OS configuration was altered. LMFAO
"HEY WINDOWS, THE USER IS DOING SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE, BRICK HIS DEVICE!"

Not sure how that's any better.
 
"HEY WINDOWS, THE USER IS DOING SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE, BRICK HIS DEVICE!"

Not sure how that's any better.
The device isn't bricked. The device is generating a segmentation fault when accessing protected memory regions that it doesn't have permission to access. If you don't want that to happen, don't misuse the hardware device OR disable memory security.
If you have a legitimate reason to use a DMA device, disable memory security.
Read, nigger, READ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentation_fault
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing
 
The device isn't bricked. The device is generating a segmentation fault when accessing protected memory regions that it doesn't have permission to access. If you don't want that to happen, don't misuse the hardware device OR disable memory security.
If you have a legitimate reason to use a DMA device, disable memory security.
Read, nigger, READ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentation_fault
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing
Correct me if I am wrong, but apparently merely having the device plugged in after Vanguard alerts Windows to it prevents your computer from booting up, is that not so?
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but apparently merely having the device plugged in after Vanguard alerts Windows to it prevents your computer from booting up, is that not so?
No. You'll be able to boot. The BSOD is generated only when the DMA device attempts to access protected memory regions.
What it does mean is that you likely won't be able to cheat on other games using the DMA device with memory security enabled, even after getting rid of Vanguard, unless you reinstall your OS, disable memory security, or do something else that someone on the cheat forums has likely cooked up already.
 
Its amusing to me that a group of internet autists who pick over fine details keep parroting "$6000 cards!!!!" when a post showed them available for $200 and up. Its not only rich fucktards with money to burn, its average Joe Loser who buys a lower end card to cheat with too. This is akin to saying every one playing on PC had a $5000 graphics card because I can link an ad showing one for sale.
Hate ALL the cheaters, including the poor ones. My stance is firmly fuck cheaters, but fuck companies who overstep their bounds. And yes, tweeting "$6000 paperweight! Lol" has the elegance of a tranny in real life. None.

Fuck cheaters, fuck valorant, fuck people who ruined games, and fuck you idiots who can't keep details straight. Cheaters will always find a new way to cheat, we don't need to give any leeway to terrible people in expensive suits who will fuck you just as fast as they forget you and cash the cheque.
 
No. You'll be able to boot. The BSOD is generated only when the DMA device attempts to access protected memory regions.
What it does mean is that you likely won't be able to cheat on other games using the DMA device with memory security enabled, even after getting rid of Vanguard, unless you reinstall your OS, disable memory security, or do something else that someone on the cheat forums has likely cooked up already.
Oh cool, so it affects other stuff, not just Valorant. Fuck Riot.
 
I will accept no gunt guarding of Riot Games for any reason, ever. They are the reason almost every multiplayer game in existence has been Gay Nigger AIDS for the past decade. They run MKUltra-tier behavioral science kikery on their playerbase, then pass their findings around to the rest of the industry so they can follow their lead. They invented the term "toxicity." They invented the Palantir-level voice comms monitor bots that instaban you if you say nigger. Kernel anticheat was not the industry standard until Valorant came around. Despite esports having existed for decades earlier, the reason community servers started disappearing, the reason every competitive game since 2016 has been unplayable is because they all wanted to be esports because of League of Legends. They raped Hytale to death over the course of five years for no reason. Being owned by the Chink Communist Party is somehow the least bad thing about them! They're a cancer on the games industry, I wish them 100,000 more layoffs.
 
I genuinely do not understand what you're trying to say here. You've completely lost me.
If you don't want memory security, you can disable it.
I want memory security on my terms. Not Vanguard's, not Valorant's, not Riot's.

And before you ask, no, I don't play MMOs, even though I used to. Fuck anti-cheat in the ass. Hell, GameGuard is the whole reason I never bought Helldivers 2 when it first came out, and man, its a good thing I didn't buy it considering all the grief Arrowhead has caused the player base.
 
I want memory security on my terms. Not Vanguard's, not Valorant's, not Riot's.
Memory security is more of an absolute thing - no memory access by devices or software that aren't allowed to access that memory. The same systems that prevent you from cheating in Valorant protect your banking information and privacy.
I'm not talking about Vanguard, I'm talking about IOMMU/VT-d/AMD-Vi. What makes it on your terms is that you're free to enable or disable them as you wish, not that you can arbitrarily decide when they're applied and how they're applied. That would otherwise defeat the purpose of those security features.
Cheat software operates similarly to malware. But Windows/Linux security features will likely never be sufficient to entirely replace AC software.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base Not that it's impossible, but it isn't exactly an appealing solution, either.
And before you ask, no, I don't play MMOs, even though I used to. Fuck anti-cheat in the ass. Hell, GameGuard is the whole reason I never bought Helldivers 2 when it first came out, and man, its a good thing I didn't buy it considering all the grief Arrowhead has caused the player base.
Sure. Many abstain from League and Valorant because they don't want to deal with the Anti-Cheat. I don't see what the problem is with allowing users to do what they want with their computers.
 
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