Vanillaware Thread - Odin, Muramasa, and Dragon's Crown

Damn near grabbed 13 Sentinels since it's 75% off on Switch but remembered it has a butchered localization. Mother fuckers...
Play it, it's one of the best narrative things I've played in a while. Yes, the "non binary" character is annoying as fuck with a farmer background, but the whole thing is peak. That or emulate the switch and play it that way, it worked well on Yuzu.
 
Unicorn Overlord was pretty good. Put about 60 hours into it. The story was total nonsense garbage but the gameplay was great!

Could have done without the furries.
 
The story was total nonsense garbage
Honestly, if it was just total nonsense, at least it'd stand out as being incomprehensible. It's painfully boring. Alain is such a plank of wood that his grandfather who looks exactly like him and is voiced by the same guy is more interesting in a 2 minute flashback than Alain is in the entire game.
 
Honestly, if it was just total nonsense, at least it'd stand out as being incomprehensible. It's painfully boring. Alain is such a plank of wood that his grandfather who looks exactly like him and is voiced by the same guy is more interesting in a 2 minute flashback than Alain is in the entire game.
That flashback and the exchanging of the rings had me laughing my ass off. I had him marry the big tiddy elf because her boss was trying way too hard and when she said "I am the happiest woman in all of fev-whatever" I lost it.

The writers must still be in high school. At least he became the Corn King at the end.
 
I found UO's story to be perfectly acceptable. It's a very tried-and-true type of story for a strategy RPG, the exiled prince coming back to retake his kingdom of an usurper who's empowered by an evil supernatural force. It might be cliched and lacking in moral nuance, but compared to other SRPGs that follow the same formula I think UO managed to be particularly high quality with its presentation and execution that it proves its worth in being made. The cast is made up of a lot of archetypes, but they're all very well-realized examples of their archetype. I think they accomplish being more memorable than say the average Fire Emblem cast without trying to be subversive.

The main flaw with the story is simply with the structure of the game. It's a very long game that's separated into 5 sections which are meant to be doable in almost any order. As such, each country basically has its own entirely separate plotline. It can feel like the "main plot" doesn't really have any twists or turns in it, just you slowly retaking ground for 80 hours of playtime. The only big twists directly related to the main villain or the heroes' ability to fight him only happen at the end, literally just before and during the final battle.

Could have done without the furries.
Vanillaware finally giving gamers what they really want.
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Unicorn Overlord just got too repetitive for me. I was playing on hard and with the self restriction of not using any unit without a name outside of guarding towns. I also learnt how easy it is to fuck with the battle simulator, where I managed to take a losing battle to a comfortable win by swapping the back row for example. I do intend to get back to it, but I still have most of the furry lands and all of the winged people areas left, so I imagine that's still 20 hours.

While I'm at it, similar thing happened with Odin Sphere. In the middle of the fairy arc I kind of lost interest. Didn't help that her moveset was less fun than the valkirye and the rabbit. I do love the company's output from an artistic standpoint, but their only game I've finished is 13 sentinels.
 
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Unicorn Overlord was just too vanilla, you need to have some darkness or stakes to make a big war game feel grand, instead it's too leisurely and you need to purposely fuck things over to get an interesting ending (and even then it's not that interesting). So it's easy to lose interest.

13 Sentinels always felt to me like it could have been better made if they dropped the non chronological order and actually had the fights combined with the story since it would have led to more interesting moments. Instead the two are completely separated.
 
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Unicorn Overlord was just too vanilla, you need to have some darkness or stakes to make a big war game feel grand, instead it's too leisurely and you need to purposely fuck things over to get an interesting ending (and even then it's not that interesting). So it's easy to lose interest.
My biggest gripe with Unicorn Overlord is that you can't recruit the wrong person. Everyone joins you and is cool after that. No backstabbers or assholes.

Pretty big oversight if you ask me.
 
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Dragon's Crown was the last true good Vanillaware game. Odin's Sphere had a few small problems that slowly showed that the company was losing its' unique touch.
Play it, it's one of the best narrative things I've played in a while. Yes, the "non binary" character is annoying as fuck with a farmer background, but the whole thing is peak. That or emulate the switch and play it that way, it worked well on Yuzu.
Everytime I hear that a game's story is good (no less from a game post the 2010s) I always compare it to Deus Ex to see if its that good. 13 Sentinels, like Spec Ops: The Line and Disco Elysium, is pretentious. It took the 2deep4u and chronologically confusing aspects of Evangelion and stretched it to 13 characters, most of which are filler as hell. The only person who fits from a plot perspective is the pills bitch. The gameplay does not help either, its an RTS but doesn't even play like one (kind of like Dawn of War 3). No wonder it left a sour mouth, easily the worst game they made.
Unicorn Overlord was just too vanilla, you need to have some darkness or stakes to make a big war game feel grand, instead it's too leisurely and you need to purposely fuck things over to get an interesting ending (and even then it's not that interesting). So it's easy to lose interest.
The difficulty is what kills it for me. You can play on hard and start from the beginning in the northern regions and the game still feels easy as shit. You can have the greatest combat system known to man but what is even the point if the difficulty of said fights never challenge the player. It was makes UO generic, and the last thing you want your Turn-Based-Tactics RPG to be is generic.
 
My biggest gripe with Unicorn Overlord is that you can't recruit the wrong person. Everyone joins you and is cool after that. No backstabbers or assholes.

Pretty big oversight if you ask me.
It's especially weird since the start of the game has units that seem to be a bad choice or mutually exclusive, but no everyone is cool with that and even the bandits have a good side.
The gameplay does not help either, its an RTS but doesn't even play like one (kind of like Dawn of War 3). No wonder it left a sour mouth, easily the worst game they made.
I actually like the gameplay, the tactical display combat is cool, and a little more balancing it would have been more challenging, but having actual graphics would be nice. 13 Sentinels went through massive development time and I think they scrapped the combat until going to the bare bones in the final iteration.
The difficulty is what kills it for me. You can play on hard and start from the beginning in the northern regions and the game still feels easy as shit. You can have the greatest combat system known to man but what is even the point if the difficulty of said fights never challenge the player. It was makes UO generic, and the last thing you want your Turn-Based-Tactics RPG to be is generic.
Only in the final map I actually had difficulty and bumped it down to normal, though mainly because the last map is long as fuck and the last few bosses have bullshit health regeneration and defence. The team building is fun but it should have gone way more autistic with what characters can do to make it more engaging. The battle themselves are just blob fests where you just swap to whatever in your blob rapes the enemy the hardest.
 
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Everytime I hear that a game's story is good (no less from a game post the 2010s) I always compare it to Deus Ex to see if its that good. 13 Sentinels, like Spec Ops: The Line and Disco Elysium, is pretentious. It took the 2deep4u and chronologically confusing aspects of Evangelion and stretched it to 13 characters, most of which are filler as hell. The only person who fits from a plot perspective is the pills bitch. The gameplay does not help either, its an RTS but doesn't even play like one (kind of like Dawn of War 3). No wonder it left a sour mouth, easily the worst game they made.
I never sniffed the farts of Deus Ex, so can't really compare with that, but I'd say it's less pretentious and more convoluted and very much on purpose. I liked the characters, but wasn't really in love with any of them except maybe Nenji, but what kept me hooked was how much it was fucking with my expectations constantly. After a session I would go into the remembrance section with my half baked theories of what the hell was happening and I had to reevaluate like 4-5 times till everything fell into place. It was a very fun puzzle basically. I didn't particularly felt it was moralfagging at me or giving mea holier than thou attitude, so I don't see where you can compare it to Spec Ops or Disco Elysium. What it was was gatekeeping certain characters with more blatant clues of what was actually happening to keep the house of mirrors going longer. Would have been pretty daring if characters were not locked behind prior events and if somebody happened to stumble into glasses guy plot first allowing for even more varied experiences between players.

As for the game of the game. I liked it, yes, it looked like something that could be rendered on a spectrum, but it actually managed to be fun and get me hyped here and there. The final battle with the endless horde was honestly tense. Throwing a missile rain always felt very satisfying, the sound design was very chunky and meaty giving a good feeling every time something exploded. I see it as an example of what can be done with minimalism. I imagine the real idea was detailed animations like the little demos of the attacks to be the main way of experiencing thing, but making it psuedoreal team and very quick and snappy was good enough in my book.
The difficulty is what kills it for me. You can play on hard and start from the beginning in the northern regions and the game still feels easy as shit. You can have the greatest combat system known to man but what is even the point if the difficulty of said fights never challenge the player. It was makes UO generic, and the last thing you want your Turn-Based-Tactics RPG to be is generic.
This I agree with. The battle randomizing every time you changed an equipment piece or a character slot meant that you could reroll the dice constantly till you got something good even if it meant putting the healer in the front line alone because that simulation happened to start with you critting. The story is a non entity, it's just a backdrop for the pretty visuals. I don't mind that, but unlike with 13 sentinels where wanting to know more kept me hooked, UO just lacks that and it had to do all of it's work through it's gameplay. UO would really benefit from being cut in half. Also doesn't help that I tend to play in a semi completionist way, maybe if I only did the core missions I would enjoy it more.
It's especially weird since the start of the game has units that seem to be a bad choice or mutually exclusive, but no everyone is cool with that and even the bandits have a good side.
Having incompatible characters could have given it some spice, but it really is idealistic and straightforward fantasy. I do think it was a solid venture, but I would appreciate something more ambitious narratively next time or a more condensed game experience.
 
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Having incompatible characters could have given it some spice, but it really is idealistic and straightforward fantasy. I do think it was a solid venture, but I would appreciate something more ambitious narratively next time or a more condensed game experience.
Thing is GrimGrimoire was also fairly Idealistic but still had a memorable story and cast. You don't need to go full Berserk with everyone being shades of grey or being overly edgy.
 
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Having incompatible characters could have given it some spice,
This reminds me during the post-release support of Darkest Dungeon 1 where Red Hook removed the class restrictions on Abomination and other Holy classes (Vestal, Crusader, Flagellant). What is it with modern TBT games and their unwillingness to say "some classes are not compatible because they hate each others guts". Baldur's Gate 3 gets some points for having the balls to implement this.

Another tidbit with 13S, the director and many fans claim that 13S is supposed to be a homage to sci-fi in general but rarely do I see aci-fi works of older respected authors like Isaac Asiimov and instead it focuses on the more shallow sci-fi works like Terminator 2 and Source Code.
 
This reminds me during the post-release support of Darkest Dungeon 1 where Red Hook removed the class restrictions on Abomination and other Holy classes (Vestal, Crusader, Flagellant). What is it with modern TBT games and their unwillingness to say "some classes are not compatible because they hate each others guts". Baldur's Gate 3 gets some points for having the balls to implement this.
I've barely played Darkest Dungeon, but it's interesting to know it worked that way in the past and seeing how big your hiring pool is and how you constantly have to juggle your mentally broken peons, I see that having class restrictions on top would have made sense, kind of weird they removed it yeah.
Another tidbit with 13S, the director and many fans claim that 13S is supposed to be a homage to sci-fi in general but rarely do I see aci-fi works of older respected authors like Isaac Asiimov and instead it focuses on the more shallow sci-fi works like Terminator 2 and Source Code.
Well, the whole "homage to sci-fi" really means "80s american and Japanese sci-fi movies". War of the worlds is the only reference I'd say doesn't fall into that description. It's a very "style over substance" omage, a lot more interested on the aesthetics or vibes of things than going beyond surface depth about transhumanism. I think the game's real focus was to get you going "oh, that looks like X!" and trying to figure out which of the 7 inspirations is the real core of the narrative than going into deep existential discussions about the condition of man and what does the soul represent.
 
Play it, it's one of the best narrative things I've played in a while. Yes, the "non binary" character is annoying as fuck with a farmer background, but the whole thing is peak. That or emulate the switch and play it that way, it worked well on Yuzu.
I intend to in some manner, eventually, since I like all their games.

I do love the company's output from an artistic standpoint, but their only game I've finished is 13 sentinels.
Have you played Muramasa Rebirth? It's their best of what I played.
 
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