Visual Novels

[Toji Suzuhara]

Had this interaction in my group chat. Wanted to share.
View attachment 6698476View attachment 6698477

Throw that boy into the CLANNAD abyss now. It's way better than becoming an iPad kid

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Finished the story mode for HBR. Great ending for the third chapter that re-contextualizes earlier events and a lot of plotholes . Overall feeling it's a good basis for a game, but it's pretty slim for what is a nearly 3 year old title (compare Limbus Company that is one year younger but has far more content and variety in combat). The writing is good with the main group, but really formulaic with everyone else and after the first chapter it REALLY drags on with introducing new characters until you get the payoff from their history. Combat is also a bit too repetitive, basically survive until you can nuke the boss, rinse and repeat. The only issues are the cases bosses are resistant to your damage type.

Only thing remaining now is grinding gems and money for equipment (at least it's not gacha based).

Throw that boy into the CLANNAD abyss now. It's way better than becoming an iPad kid

I still can't hear Dango Family without wanting to cry.

 

[Maurice Maine]

Throw that boy into the CLANNAD abyss now. It's way better than becoming an iPad kid

Maybe I shouldn't post this here (because I'm an anime only scrub) but I never really understood why Key was such a phenomenon back in the day. Take Clannad, I thought Season 1 was pretty fine and then After Story brings out the true genius in the story barring a few warts. After that Angel Beats was a fun anime for what it was despite the fact Jun Maeda will never finish the VN... what was the big deal there? Did waifu power carry those properties? Was it KyoAni?

 

[HexFag]

Maybe I shouldn't post this here (because I'm an anime only scrub) but I never really understood why Key was such a phenomenon back in the day. Take Clannad, I thought Season 1 was pretty fine and then After Story brings out the true genius in the story barring a few warts. After that Angel Beats was a fun anime for what it was despite the fact Jun Maeda will never finish the VN... what was the big deal there? Did waifu power carry those properties? Was it KyoAni?

A little bit of everything but Key was big even before Clannad. The 2000s were also the Golden Age of VNs and Key were constantly putting out popular, high quality stuff. Kanon and Air were very popular VNs before Clannad ever happened and after Clannad they were putting stuff out like Planetarian, Rewrite, and Little Busters.

I really should read Clannad sometime soon.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

Maybe I shouldn't post this here (because I'm an anime only scrub) but I never really understood why Key was such a phenomenon back in the day.

Because you're anime only. There's probably a lot about Clannad you didn't pick up on. Like the fact that

the illusionary world storyline is about having Tomoya live through multiple parallel timelines that all vaguely reflect his own personality flaws. Thus allowing him to use the light orbs to make a wish that will ACTUALLY make him happy.

The TV show has enough vague hints as to the meta story going on for someone to piece it together if they're looking for it. But, it's definitely less obvious in the anime than it is in the game.

All this shit is why I wanted to put together that video series that I mentioned forever ago. Clannad's story structure is really cool and creative, in addition to the SHEER CATHARSIS that comes from playing through it.

 

[Maurice Maine]

Because you're anime only. There's probably a lot about Clannad you didn't pick up on. Like the fact that

the illusionary world storyline is about having Tomoya live through multiple parallel timelines that all vaguely reflect his own personality flaws. Thus allowing him to use the light orbs to make a wish that will ACTUALLY make him happy.

The TV show has enough vague hints as to the meta story going on for someone to piece it together if they're looking for it. But, it's definitely less obvious in the anime than it is in the game.

All this shit is why I wanted to put together that video series that I mentioned forever ago. Clannad's story structure is really cool and creative, in addition to the SHEER CATHARSIS that comes from playing through it.

I had some issues with Okazaki's characterization in the anime but ironically the inferior movie done by the legendary Osamu Dezaki fixed all the issues I had with his character. In the movie he really feels like a real delinquent from those old anime like BeBop Highschool, Cromartie High, GTO, etc while in the KyoAni version he's just some weird loner outcast. I liked the ending from the movie more too... I'll get crucified for saying that lol, really should read the VN to see if it's the superior version

 

[Nobody In Particular]

I had some issues with Okazaki's characterization in the anime but ironically the inferior movie done by the legendary Osamu Dazai fixed all the issues I had with his character. In the movie he really feels like a real delinquent from those old anime like BeBop Highschool, Cromartie High, GTO, etc while in the KyoAni version he's just some weird loner outcast. I liked the ending from the movie more too... I'll get crucified for saying that lol, really should read the VN to see if it's the superior version

Not liking Clannad's ending is literally a skill issue.

 

[Oceanic Navigator]

I still can't hear Dango Family without wanting to cry.

Why does star wars get criticized over the "lost the will to live" bullshit when Nagisa and her child with Tomiya both do the exact same thing in a more grounded setting without magic powers like the force? The ending without any of that nonsense where they live as a happy family is the best one.

Since the whole "death in childbirth trope" makes zero sense as the story of clannad takes place around the 1990's/2000's where it is not nearly as common as it might have been in feudal japan.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

Why does star wars get criticized over the "lost the will to live" bullshit when Nagisa and her child with Tomiya both do the exact same thing in a more grounded setting without magic powers like the force?

Because the story signposts its ending with a lighthouse spotlight and nuke sirens. You might not follow how all the parallel universe bullshit works within the story's mechanics. But, they tell you A LOT about light orbs and wishes.

 

[Waifu Denier]

I had some issues with Okazaki's characterization in the anime but ironically the inferior movie done by the legendary Osamu Dazai fixed all the issues I had with his character. In the movie he really feels like a real delinquent from those old anime like BeBop Highschool, Cromartie High, GTO, etc while in the KyoAni version he's just some weird loner outcast. I liked the ending from the movie more too... I'll get crucified for saying that lol, really should read the VN to see if it's the superior version

KyoAni's version did do some things that actually put it uniquely above most anime adaptions of VNs (which thus falter in matching to the original), namely actually using the visual aspects of the medium to convey something that even the VN can at times struggle with. For example, in the original VN, the Tomoyo route has Tomoya pass through the days after he breaks up with her for what he perceives to be for her own good. The OVA of Clannad which covered the route visually shows him during this period as more attentive and adopting more of the habits that Tomoyo tried to instill within him, showing visually her impact and her importance on his life.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

The thing I like about Clannad is that it has the most unique common route I played, where you can barely interact with anyone. It makes more sense with the protagonist being anti social.

Why does star wars get criticized over the "lost the will to live" bullshit when Nagisa and her child with Tomiya both do the exact same thing in a more grounded setting without magic powers like the force? The ending without any of that nonsense where they live as a happy family is the best one.

Since the whole "death in childbirth trope" makes zero sense as the story of clannad takes place around the 1990's/2000's where it is not nearly as common as it might have been in feudal japan.

Nagisa dying from child birth isn't like that though. The route says she is extremely sickly over and over, and once she's pregnant she's told flat out that it might be better to abort than risk give birth. Pretty sure it happens irl, probably a case of a weak immune system.

Her daughter dying is bullshit, the idea was that she also inherited the disease/defect so will also not live long but she just dies to get to the wish ending. A shame because after story is a unique epilogue with how characters react.

 

[Maurice Maine]

The thing I like about Clannad is that it has the most unique common route I played, where you can barely interact with anyone. It makes more sense with the protagonist being anti social.

Nagisa dying from child birth isn't like that though. The route says she is extremely sickly over and over, and once she's pregnant she's told flat out that it might be better to abort than risk give birth. Pretty sure it happens irl, probably a case of a weak immune system.

Her daughter dying is bullshit, the idea was that she also inherited the disease/defect so will also not live long but she just dies to get to the wish ending. A shame because after story is a unique epilogue with how characters react.

Totally agree. After Story was perfect until Ushio got sick. I feel like the original plan was for Okazaki to accept that Nagisa fucking died, make amends with his father and Nagisa's parents and move on. But no, they undid all of that for a feels good ending that I would say came out of nowhere but fans will say nooooo it was set up from the beginning with the whole parallel world thing!!!! As if it wasn't obviously tacked on after the main route was written. If the writers had the balls to stick to what I wrote here the series would have been a 10/10 and would have fit with the themes of anime of the era (Kino and FMA '03 most famously).

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Totally agree. After Story was perfect until Ushio got sick. I feel like the original plan was for Okazaki to accept that Nagisa fucking died, make amends with his father and Nagisa's parents and move on. But no, they undid all of that for a feels good ending that I would say came out of nowhere but fans will say nooooo it was set up from the beginning with the whole parallel world thing!!!! As if it wasn't obviously tacked on after the main route was written. If the writers had the balls to stick to what I wrote here the series would have been a 10/10 and would have fit with the themes of anime of the era (Kino and FMA '03 most famously).

Bullshit happy cosmic retcons aren't that rare in VNs, but it really reduces the impact from the whole thing because it undoes the MC's realising he repeats the mistake his own father did and accepts reality and moves on.

It's interesting thinking how VNs represent the spirit of the time. Post bubble Japan was mainly a lot of depression, nowadays it's full on escapism.

 

[Maurice Maine]

Bullshit happy cosmic retcons aren't that rare in VNs, but it really reduces the impact from the whole thing because it undoes the MC's realising he repeats the mistake his own father did and accepts reality and moves on.

It's interesting thinking how VNs represent the spirit of the time. Post bubble Japan was mainly a lot of depression, nowadays it's full on escapism.

I miss the whole depressive episode of anime tbh. Writers weren't afraid to gut punch you and while I don't really grasp how bad Japan was in the 2000s the tone of these stories fit current year like a glove. It's the perfect antithesis to shitty Hollywood 'the good guys always win' bullshit. Then around 2006 the script flipped and we got Haruhi and the whole Moe craze and it was never the same. Newer attempts like a the Cyberpunk anime don't feel genuine in my opinion. I don't know what Japanese people were dooming at circa 2003 but it was heavy.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

Bullshit happy cosmic retcons aren't that rare in VNs, but it really reduces the impact from the whole thing because it undoes the MC's realising he repeats the mistake his own father did and accepts reality and moves on.

It's interesting thinking how VNs represent the spirit of the time. Post bubble Japan was mainly a lot of depression, nowadays it's full on escapism.

Let me pick your brain here. Clannad signposts the wish ending a lot. So, I'd hardly call it bullshit. As for it cheapening Tomoya's character development. I could not disagree more. If anything, it strengthens it to a new crescendo.

The light orbs don't just grant wishes. They represent lessons learned. Each other route is a subtle reflection of something wrong with Tomoya (except Fuko's but she doesn't give you a light orb). Kotomi's route is about overcoming greif. Kyou's route is about finding the courage to seize your own happiness. Even Kappei's route, as terrible as it is, conveys a message about optimism in a hopeless situation.

Tomoya can only make a wish to secure a happy future AFTER he's acquired enough experiences to complete himself as a person.

 

[Overwritten Tapes]

Such as policenauts and clock tower? If so, then yes.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Let me pick your brain here. Clannad signposts the wish ending a lot. So, I'd hardly call it bullshit. As for it cheapening Tomoya's character development. I could not disagree more. If anything, it strengthens it to a new crescendo.

The light orbs don't just grant wishes. They represent lessons learned. Each other route is a subtle reflection of something wrong with Tomoya (except Fuko's but she doesn't give you a light orb). Kotomi's route is about overcoming greif. Kyou's route is about finding the courage to seize your own happiness. Even Kappei's route, as terrible as it is, conveys a message about optimism in a hopeless situation.

Tomoya can only make a wish to secure a happy future AFTER he's acquired enough experiences to complete himself as a person.

The meta justification doesn't justify the ending being very abrupt and dark for being dark. Not to mention that the VN has Tomoya go through the routes exclusively, so it's hard to argue he learns something from an AU version of himself reaching enlightenment.

After Story didn't need a retcon at its end. Tomoya's growth there is one of the more unique plots in VNs as you never get to this point in a main character. Having him build a new life with his estranged daughter was in itself way more interesting.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

The meta justification doesn't justify the ending being very abrupt and dark for being dark. Not to mention that the VN has Tomoya go through the routes exclusively, so it's hard to argue he learns something from an AU version of himself reaching enlightenment.

After Story didn't need a retcon at its end. Tomoya's growth there is one of the more unique plots in VNs as you never get to this point in a main character. Having him build a new life with his estranged daughter was in itself way more interesting.

Clarify one thing for me. When you say "abrupt and dark", I assume you're talking about the twist with Ushio inheriting Nagisa's illness. Because that line of thinking just does not apply to Clannad's true ending. You have to get the bad ending at least once to unlock Akio's route.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Clarify one thing for me. When you say "abrupt and dark", I assume you're talking about the twist with Ushio inheriting Nagisa's illness. Because that line of thinking just does not apply to Clannad's true ending. You have to get the bad ending at least once to unlock Akio's route.

It's been some time but I remember Ushio fucking dies in a snowstorm while Tomoyo screams for help, after him finally opening up to her rather than treating her as a stranger. That's as dark as it comes without outright violence.

And while you need to finish multiple routes to unlock after story, it isn't that different from usual content gating, especially as it is pretty much the climax of the story's themes.

 

[Nobody In Particular]

It's been some time but I remember Ushio fucking dies in a snowstorm while Tomoyo screams for help, after him finally opening up to her rather than treating her as a stranger. That's as dark as it comes without outright violence.

And while you need to finish multiple routes to unlock after story, it isn't that different from usual content gating, especially as it is pretty much the climax of the story's themes.

You actually only need to finish Nagisa and Fuko's routes to unlock After Story. Which is another thing that gets my noggin joggin. Because Fuko is the only character necessary for progression, who doesn't give you a light orb. I think she's supposed to reflect Ushio's state of mind rather than Tomoya's. Being that they were friends and all. Fuko's story is about a sweet little girl trying to unite two people she cared very deeply about. Kind of like what happens in Clannad's true ending. Maybe the implication is that Ushio has partial ownership over Tomoya's light orbs, and that he has to choose between his own innate pessimism (he explicitly says "I never should have called out to Nagisa"), and Ushio's kindness? It would explain why you get a new decision if you play through afterstory again after you get the true ending.