Visual Novels

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Do you play visual Novels?

  • No, because that’s fucking gay

    Votes: 83 15.7%

  • Yes, because I read them for the plot

    Votes: 195 36.9%

  • No, because they’re not really video games

    Votes: 34 6.4%

  • Yes, because anime girls are better than real women

    Votes: 116 21.9%

  • No, but I think about playing them

    Votes: 68 12.9%

  • Yes, but I do it ironically

    Votes: 33 6.2%
  • Total voters
    529
wtfNeedSignUp said:
I would recommend Gnosia to unwind. It's a bit divisive but pretty good in atmosphere and setting, and and it's fun to slowly chip at it until you get the ending.
Basically it's also amongus but randomly generated with the jobs given randomly. Each session is pretty quick and you get the plot from getting specific scenarios (it will edge you towards them so the RNG isn't too bad). The main issue is that it works more of a stat check a lot of times than actual logic game (since you have stats that you increase as you play more and more).

Island is pretty good but it starts pretty generic, though the time loop in it is way less pronounced than usual. I recommend it and it's better to be .

Top quality milf material in that game.
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Cool, just to confirm. Island is this? https://vndb.org/v18498

And Gnosia is this one? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1608290/GNOSIA/

Still, next VN will be Utawa since I already have it anyway and in the meantime I'll fit in other games, but will add both to the pile. Does either of the 2 require getting a patch or both good out of the box in steam?

While at it, other VN or similar I have in the pile are MiSide, Little Busters!, Slay the Princess, Aokana and Planetarian. Anyone of those deserve special praise or is kind of a dud?

Also, just noticed that Raincode is on Steam with a PLUS edition, anybody know what extras it has compared to the Switch?
 
ShitLurker said:
Cool, just to confirm. Island is this? https://vndb.org/v18498

And Gnosia is this one? https://store.steampowered.com/app/1608290/GNOSIA/

Still, next VN will be Utawa since I already have it anyway and in the meantime I'll fit in other games, but will add both to the pile. Does either of the 2 require getting a patch or both good out of the box in steam?

While at it, other VN or similar I have in the pile are MiSide, Little Busters!, Slay the Princess, Aokana and Planetarian. Anyone of those deserve special praise or is kind of a dud?

Also, just noticed that Raincode is on Steam with a PLUS edition, anybody know what extras it has compared to the Switch?
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Yeah those are the ones. Gnosia has no patch, and pretty sure Island doesn't either.

As for the other mentions:
Little Busters is fantastic, but is a door stopper.
Slay has really fun moments but is a bit stuck in it's own ass.
Planetarian is a great short game.

I didn't like Raincode. Really felt like the worse gameplay aspects of Danganronpa without the character interactions that make it good.
 
Yankee Shogun said:
One day I pray we will live in a world where Western VNs aren't uber-ironic utter dogshit or porn
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The medium seems to attract unemployed English Majors and Acting School dropouts. I imagine, because there's a low barrier to entry, and they think there's something to *fix* about the genre.

There are, broadly, two kinds of VNs. Highly experimental story concepts that either require the structure of a Visual Novel to function, or need the lack of regulation in the medium to get published. That, and cutesy, romantic bullshit (affectionate) that you're meant to live vicariously through.

I don't think most people in the anglosphere are talented enough to create the former, and their pride won't let them create the latter (but, it's not impossible, Katawa Shoujo exists, and is very good.)
 
AWarmToiletSeat said:
The medium seems to attract unemployed English Majors and Acting School dropouts. I imagine, because there's a low barrier to entry, and they think there's something to *fix* about the genre.

There are, broadly, two kinds of VNs. Highly experimental story concepts that either require the structure of a Visual Novel to function, or need the lack of regulation in the medium to get published. That, and cutesy, romantic bullshit (affectionate) that you're meant to live vicariously through.

I don't think most people in the anglosphere are talented enough to create the former, and their pride won't let them create the latter (but, it's not impossible, Katawa Shoujo exists, and is very good.)
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After the Walking Sim boom died down once Steam implemented the two hour return period, VNs were the next big thing for shitty writers to spam games with. But because the origins of those games are "problematic" they will either make it super gay and/or dig into the idea of VNs as if it wasn't done a billion times already. They will also treat VN like they are all Tokimeki Memoria despite that genre being dead for more than a decade (not dissimilar to modern games acting as if battle bikini is still the norm in RPGs).

Slay The Princess is probably the best western VN I played in recent years and it's mainly fun for all the crazy shit that can happen, while the metaplot is bog standard playing with metanarrative (meaning it is just word vomit for double digit IQ troglodytes to mistake for something meaningful).
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
After the Walking Sim boom died down once Steam implemented the two hour return period, VNs were the next big thing for shitty writers to spam games with. But because the origins of those games are "problematic" they will either make it super gay and/or dig into the idea of VNs as if it wasn't done a billion times already. They will also treat VN like they are all Tokimeki Memoria despite that genre being dead for more than a decade (not dissimilar to modern games acting as if battle bikini is still the norm in RPGs).

Slay The Princess is probably the best western VN I played in recent years and it's mainly fun for all the crazy shit that can happen, while the metaplot is bog standard playing with metanarrative (meaning it is just word vomit for double digit IQ troglodytes to mistake for something meaningful).
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I feel like a lot of millennial writers want, desperately, to create something with the depth and emotional impact of a key game, even if they aren't aware of the brand. But they're too wrapped up in their own gay hyper fixations to understand what makes those games so beloved. They appeal to fairly universal experiences. Kanon is broadly about greif and loss, Air is about people's relationships with maternal figures, Clannad is about growth and waking up tomorrow stronger, and kinder, than you were today. These, truly, sublime experiences aren't about bisexual med school dropouts, they could be about anybody, that's why they hit so hard.
 
AWarmToiletSeat said:
I feel like a lot of millennial writers want, desperately, to create something with the depth and emotional impact of a key game, even if they aren't aware of the brand. But they're too wrapped up in their own gay hyper fixations to understand what makes those games so beloved. They appeal to fairly universal experiences. Kanon is broadly about greif and loss, Air is about people's relationships with maternal figures, Clannad is about growth and waking up tomorrow stronger, and kinder, than you were today. These, truly, sublime experiences aren't about bisexual med school dropouts, they could be about anybody, that's why they hit so hard.
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Even the more wild VN's still try to appeal to those universal experiences like you said. Fate is about ideals. Steins Gate is about facing your issues. And nowhere in there is the MC thar bisexual med student like you said. They may be a bit kooky or different, but they aren't so specific that you can't relate.
 
It's probably because western storytelling tropes are inherently selfish and shallow.

Modern western storytelling cannot tell a story about heroes anymore because our sense of identity wholly rejects anything related to what others think about us. It is not considered heroic to sublimate yourself to the needs of the community or the needs of your family to save others unless they first affirm your internal motivations or sublimate themselves to your selfish desires.

Self-denial, self-sacrifice, or learning and growing are seen as the tools of oppressors, instead of the way of the hero. That's why, even when modern books, games or movies try to portray someone as a hero, they're mocked or are shallow in implementation (see dustborn and the constantly bickering unlikeable characters). The morals modern stories try to tell you are self-serving diatribes about how only your own opinion matters even though your own sense of self is not the only way you interact with the world. Your own sense of self isn't even consistent, so anyone who depends on that aspect of a character beyond their sense of self changing for the better is a hack fraud.

That's why every western VN is about a gay polycule learning to make coffee in Trump's America: it's about perfect characters forcing the outside world to change and never learning or growing.

Even haremslop has better and more morally correct characterization of the typical shallow protagonist in those VNs. At least those guys typically learn to appreciate whoever they end up with, whereas western VNs always write their romances or characters in general as taking from others but never giving back.

Holy hell, even Rance is a better developed character than whatever that subhuman was who headlined Dustborn.
 
Poop A Loop said:
Self-denial, self-sacrifice, or learning and growing are seen as the tools of oppressors, instead of the way of the hero. That's why, even when modern books, games or movies try to portray someone as a hero, they're mocked or are shallow in implementation (see dustborn and the constantly bickering unlikeable characters). The morals modern stories try to tell you are self-serving diatribes about how only your own opinion matters even though your own sense of self is not the only way you interact with the world. Your own sense of self isn't even consistent, so anyone who depends on that aspect of a character beyond their sense of self changing for the better is a hack fraud.
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I think that's a better characterization of the stories that modern writers want to, and inevitably end up, making. Not so much the stories we appreciate in the long term. I think it's safe to say at this point that the market, i.e. the people we live alongside, have rejected these kinds of stories wholesale. Sure, the global faggot index that funds these projects will keep them around for a while, but nobody's buying.

Heroism, self sacrifice, meaningful change, seeking redemption; these are concepts that tie most people together in some kind of story telling gestalt. We understand on some level that we need to embody these things, because the only part of the world we can change is ourselves. Everyone loves Captain America, nobody likes Captain Marvel.
 
AWarmToiletSeat said:
I feel like a lot of millennial writers want, desperately, to create something with the depth and emotional impact of a key game, even if they aren't aware of the brand. But they're too wrapped up in their own gay hyper fixations to understand what makes those games so beloved. They appeal to fairly universal experiences. Kanon is broadly about greif and loss, Air is about people's relationships with maternal figures, Clannad is about growth and waking up tomorrow stronger, and kinder, than you were today. These, truly, sublime experiences aren't about bisexual med school dropouts, they could be about anybody, that's why they hit so hard.
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Tbf a lot of modern writers both east and west just don't want to invest the time for the story to reach emotional catharsis and just speedrun to the shtick they want to explore, not realizing that without the preparations work it doesn't have the impact to make the reader care. With the west it's worse because they always aim to make a grand statement about a genre that they seemingly never played and have absolutely no media literacy (ah!) about.

For example, I just finished Muv Luv Unlimited and without Extra a lot of it turns into a generic (especially now) scifi story. Modern games would never had a whole first game to beat to underline the difference between normal life and post apocalypse one.
Poop A Loop said:
It's probably because western storytelling tropes are inherently selfish and shallow.

Modern western storytelling cannot tell a story about heroes anymore because our sense of identity wholly rejects anything related to what others think about us. It is not considered heroic to sublimate yourself to the needs of the community or the needs of your family to save others unless they first affirm your internal motivations or sublimate themselves to your selfish desires.

Self-denial, self-sacrifice, or learning and growing are seen as the tools of oppressors, instead of the way of the hero. That's why, even when modern books, games or movies try to portray someone as a hero, they're mocked or are shallow in implementation (see dustborn and the constantly bickering unlikeable characters). The morals modern stories try to tell you are self-serving diatribes about how only your own opinion matters even though your own sense of self is not the only way you interact with the world. Your own sense of self isn't even consistent, so anyone who depends on that aspect of a character beyond their sense of self changing for the better is a hack fraud.

That's why every western VN is about a gay polycule learning to make coffee in Trump's America: it's about perfect characters forcing the outside world to change and never learning or growing.

Even haremslop has better and more morally correct characterization of the typical shallow protagonist in those VNs. At least those guys typically learn to appreciate whoever they end up with, whereas western VNs always write their romances or characters in general as taking from others but never giving back.

Holy hell, even Rance is a better developed character than whatever that subhuman was who headlined Dustborn.
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Ironically you can have a lot of criticism into modern writing than traditional ones. People can only hear about "being a hero is bad" so many times before it loses its edge, but the sheer self serving villainous and hypocricy of modern leftists is such a deep hole you can never really fathom it.
 
AWarmToiletSeat said:
Heroism, self sacrifice,
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he.png

If you know, you know.
 
AWarmToiletSeat said:
I feel like a lot of millennial writers want, desperately, to create something with the depth and emotional impact of a key game, even if they aren't aware of the brand. But they're too wrapped up in their own gay hyper fixations to understand what makes those games so beloved.
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It's impossible for them, it requires a level of honesty that they simply cannot do. They are too cynical and ugly inside to tell a simple love story with no weird strings attached, or any sort of subversion. When you can't do the "simple" things, how do you expect to do the complicated stuff from the get go? You can't do a deconstruction of love when you can't write love, and the west loves to deconstruct. I imagine the eastern ones have their own problems as well, though I'm not as in touch to know them.
WelperHelper99 said:
Even the more wild VN's still try to appeal to those universal experiences like you said. Fate is about ideals.
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Hell, Fate depending on route is about knowing your limits, breaking your limits or being crushed by reality and managing to make the most of it.
wtfNeedSignUp said:
Tbf a lot of modern writers both east and west just don't want to invest the time for the story to reach emotional catharsis and just speedrun to the shtick they want to explore, not realizing that without the preparations work it doesn't have the impact to make the reader care.
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Setup is so damn huge. Clannad is a very long goddamn read. But it takes the time to make you care. Steins;Gate and Fate give you multiple just slice of life days before anything interesting proper happens just so you can get used to the cast, and again, manage to actually care about them. Doesn't mean you have to start every story slow, Raging Loop makes you care for the characters while insanity is happening instead of setting them up first, but a lot of stories really live and die on their characters. And making me care about the characters while not needing to dangle keys in front of me to keep me engaged is an art.

And then you have stories where the characters are alright like in 999 and 13 Sentinels, but the setting and narrative itself is what it entrances you. But again, setup is king in those as well and I always consider story driven narratives to be a lot harder to accomplish than character based. I can forgive a shitty story if I like the characters enough, I have a harder time forgiving shit characters in a good story.
wtfNeedSignUp said:
With the west it's worse because they always aim to make a grand statement about a genre that they seemingly never played and have absolutely no media literacy (ah!) about.
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Gotta deconstruct and subvert to the extreme!
Frederica Bernkastel said:
View attachment 6901963
If you know, you know.
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I don't and I'm curious! Drop me a title.
 
ShitLurker said:
It's impossible for them, it requires a level of honesty that they simply cannot do. They are too cynical and ugly inside to tell a simple love story with no weird strings attached, or any sort of subversion. When you can't do the "simple" things, how do you expect to do the complicated stuff from the get go? You can't do a deconstruction of love when you can't write love, and the west loves to deconstruct. I imagine the eastern ones have their own problems as well, though I'm not as in touch to know them.
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It's also probably been stated earlier, but they aren't even being original with the subversions, since subversions have existed in literature since the first stories were told in oral tradition. It also doesn't help that the west is a subverted land already, and people want a break from that subversion.
 
Señora Airi said:
It's also probably been stated earlier, but they aren't even being original with the subversions, since subversions have existed in literature since the first stories were told in oral tradition. It also doesn't help that the west is a subverted land already, and people want a break from that subversion.
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Doki Doki is all like "oh the cute anime girls are actually all menhera, violent psychopaths". Meanwhile Higurashi is in the corner, benching 400, like "you say sumn' bitch?"
 
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