Waco discussion - Yeehaw we're glowing

[Arm Pit Cream]

On the 28th anniversary of Waco, I was wondering what were your thoughts? Was the ATF justified? Were the Branch Davidians at fault? Is there any parts of the officla narrative you disbelieve? Who set the fire? Was the teargas justified? How would you handle the situation?



Personally I think it's pretty ridiculous to act as if the loss of some many lives during a raid isn't somehow the responsibility of the government if it gets out of hand. I know theres audio of BDs talking about fire, but they were using candles. A 51 day standoff is ridiculous and the ATF essentially was using it as a publicity stunt to boost their budget.
I understand some of the Branch Davidians were sick criminals and it's a cult so you can't convince them easily, but if the ATF was less bombastic it would have worked out better.

Good article covering waco:

https://ammo.com/articles/waco-siege-branch-davidian-compound-standoff-atf-raid-us-federal-government

The Waco Siege: What Happened When the Feds Laid Siege to the Branch …

archived 29 Feb 2020 06:23:34 UTC

archive.li

 

[Troonos]

There shouldn't be a government agency whose sole purpose is violating your right to defend yourself from the government. The ATF has to be abolished.

 

[Arm Pit Cream]

 

[Not Really Here]

There shouldn't be a government agency whose sole purpose is violating your right to defend yourself from the government. The ATF has to be abolished.

Counterpoint: The ATF should deliver Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to every US citizen over the age of 18.

As for the Waco thing, they should have arrested Koresh while he was out on his morning jog.

 

[j666]

small correction to that image in the OP; february 28th was the shootout that killed 4 ATF officers. 5 branch davidians died. the fire that killed 76 branch davidians took place on april 19th.

the feds claimed "not a single shot was fired" during the seige that took place on the 19th, yet 25+ bodies were found with bullet wounds (they claim it was either suicide or their fellow cult members shooting them; i don't buy it). feds can be seen firing into the dining hall, where women and children were hiding, preventing them from escaping while the building burned around them. they rammed a tank into a former vault being used for food storage and injected CS gas into an enclosed room housing women and children. i saw photographs of the twisted bodies of young children whos bones had violently broken from cyanide poisoning induced from CS gas igniting.
nothing justifies that. fuck all the feds that participated in the seige and fuck the government officials that defended them (looking at you chuck schumer). they were a crazy cult but this could have been handled so much better. nobody had to die on either side.

edit: great documentary on the subject:

 

[Marissa Moira]

Tanks for the memories~

 

[Troonos]

Counterpoint: The ATF should deliver Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms to every US citizen over the age of 18.

As for the Waco thing, they should have arrested Koresh while he was out on his morning jog.

I endorse this idea.

 

[Radical Cadre]

Waco did nothing wrong and Janet Reno and Bill Clinton should be in prison or dead.

Waco discussion.

 

[waffle]

Branch Davidians were good boys who dindu nuffin. ATF is gays.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Pretty sure the Feds could have just waited them out, but they were in there reading the Bible so I guess they had to go.

 

[Meat Pickle]

What's so great about the Branch Davidians? They are a bunch of doomsday cultists/ultra fundies where their men are forced to cuck their wives to their leader.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

What's so great about the Branch Davidians? They are a bunch of doomsday cultists/ultra fundies where their men are forced to cuck their wives to their leader.

It's not that they're good. It's that the ATF is complete shit.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Just Democrats being Democrats and sending a message to anyone who wanted to get too out there in the lead up to the year 2000.

 

[Still Anonymous For This]

There shouldn't be a government agency whose sole purpose is violating your right to defend yourself from the government. The ATF has to be abolished.

Not only this, but the way they run the NFA system is pants-on-head retarded. Nothing I love more than purchasing a suppressor, sending in my Form 4 with check, and having my check almost immediately cashed, but not see hide nor hair of my stamp for 3+ months.

I purchased a .223 suppressor a couple of years back before I was married. Changing the stamp from an individual to a trust, so my wife and I are not "technically" breaking the law when she's home and I'm not, is fucking dumb and the whole process essentially makes law breakers out of your average Americans.

 

[Ponchik]

maybe if i take an epic selfie in front of this compound full of children burning alive i'll look like the good guy...

also lol fuck janet reno

 

[The High Prophet of Truth]

 

[Consenticles]

small correction to that image in the OP; february 28th was the shootout that killed 4 ATF officers. 5 branch davidians died. the fire that killed 76 branch davidians took place on april 19th.

the feds claimed "not a single shot was fired" during the seige that took place on the 19th, yet 25+ bodies were found with bullet wounds (they claim it was either suicide or their fellow cult members shooting them; i don't buy it). feds can be seen firing into the dining hall, where women and children were hiding, preventing them from escaping while the building burned around them. they rammed a tank into a former vault being used for food storage and injected CS gas into an enclosed room housing women and children. i saw photographs of the twisted bodies of young children whos bones had violently broken from cyanide poisoning induced from CS gas igniting.
nothing justifies that. fuck all the feds that participated in the seige and fuck the government officials that defended them (looking at you chuck schumer). they were a crazy cult but this could have been handled so much better. nobody had to die on either side.

edit: great documentary on the subject:

So I was curious about the photographs you mentioned. The ones I had seen did not contain bodies. Just rubble and flaming building photos. But after a few clicks I found these autopsy photos.

While you may wish to spend time choosing sides, I think that viewing these photos could benefit both sides. I enjoy this kind of thing, so I don't really shy away from gore. But I dont think I've ever seen a body at this stage of decay. Usually it will be bone fragments or a charred corpse. This shit looks like funky seared chicken.

Word of warning, they are graphic. Not entirely sure what the nature of this site I discovered them on is. Not sure if they are dudes who get off to this or ca a rs of morbid curiosity. If anyone has heard of this site, it would help if you could give us an idea if the content on this forum is legit. Thanks.

https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f240/waco-autopsy-photographs-february-1993-a-15113/

If these are indeed legit, I think both sides can agree this was unnecessary and a complete operational blunder. None of this shit had to happen like this. We better fuckong hope we have at least learned from our mistakes.

 

[X Prime]

Not only this, but the way they run the NFA system is pants-on-head retarded. Nothing I love more than purchasing a suppressor, sending in my Form 4 with check, and having my check almost immediately cashed, but not see hide nor hair of my stamp for 3+ months.

Just a point of order; a lot of government institutions that involve authorizations-with-fees or licensures-with-fees are like this. It is absolutely not unique to the ATF.

There's a reason no one likes bureaucracy. The only thing they are fast and good at is taking your money.

 

[Kill a Troon for Pikamee]

Imagine having a shitty government job based on stealing people's guns then you die like a loser while doing your shitty government job and you immediately go to hell where you suffer unspeakable torment for all eternity lmao

 

[mr.moon1488]

There was absolutely no reason the feds couldn't have gotten anyone targeted for arrest while they were out and about in town. They clearly wanted a media circus conflict and they got it, but it went out of control for them.