War: What IS it good for?

Men are born for games. Nothing else. Every child knows that play is nobler than work. He knows too that the worth or merit of a game is not inherent in the game itself but rather in the value of that which is put at hazard. Games of chance require a wager to have meaning at all. Games of sport involve the skill and strength of the opponents and the humiliation of defeat and the pride of victory are in themselves sufficient stake because they inhere in the worth of the principals and define them. But trial of chance or trial of worth all games aspire to the condition of war for here that which is wagered swallows up game, player, all.

Suppose two men at cards with nothing to wager save their lives. Who has not heard such a tale? A turn of the card. The whole universe for such a player has labored clanking to this moment which will tell if he is to die at that man's hand or that man at his. What more certain validation of a man's worth could there be? This enhancement of the game to its ultimate state admits no argument concerning the notion of fate. The selection of one man over another is a preference absolute and irrevocable and it is a dull man indeed who could reckon so profound a decision without agency or significance either one. In such games as have for their stake the annihilation of the defeated the decisions are quite clear. This man holding this particular arrangement of cards in his hand is thereby removed from existence. This is the nature of war, whose stake is at once the game and the authority and the justification. Seen so, war is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one's will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select.

War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence.

War is god.

Holy fuck, I actually managed to work in a second quote from my namesake in under a year, im on a roll
 
War is usually a dick-measuring competition between two or more countries that usually results in a lot of dead people, and a lot of money wasted.
 
In the absolute best case scenario, it can put a stop to genocide in exchange for thousands of soldiers' lives, end the reigns of tyrants at the cost of thousands of soldiers' lives, and stimulate the economy in the form of creating newer and more deadly weapons to use in the next war. At it's worst, it is a game rich people play in order to expand their reach across nations, an excuse to violate public privacy, and a way to increase their stranglehold on the necks of the poor.

TLDR: War is bad, but it's insane to think we'll ever put a stop to it entirely.
 
War solves disputes. At the turn of the 20th century fascism, communism and democracy emerged as competing ideologies. World war 2 removed fascism and the cold war ended communism. In the end, it doesn't matter which system is best, whoever survives is "right".
 
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Blue Max said:
I'm not sure anyone ever invented war, although we may have reached a point in our condition where war has become a marginal event in the bushes in third world countries. If anything, I suspect war emerged roughly along the same time period as anthropological "states" did, reflecting a distinction between peace and war by formalized agreement, perhaps ~5,000 BC...
I'd say you're off by a few million years. Depending on the definition, I'd say it began with tribalism, and even that may put too fine a point on it. When a group of our extremely distant ancestors wanted something from another group and took to violence to attain it, that's war at its most basic, and would have begun before said ancestors were hardly human -- like, before they left the trees. Some apes do the same thing.

it'll be with us as long as someone is willing to do whatever it takes to get what they want, and keep in mind that what they want may be perfectly justifiable; breaking out of slavery, trying to avoid genocide at the hands of someone else, any one of a number of things that can be boiled down to simple survival. When the other side isn't interested in diplomacy or any philosophical hashing out of "is this really worth it?", there'll be wars. As long as any irrational people are in positions of power, there'll be wars. It's built in. I'm not saying that the instinct to war should be acceptable, or shrugged off as inevitable and therefore not worth resisting, but eliminating war per se requires a fundamental change in the human animal and it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I sure hope there will never be a World War 3, because some nut will push the button and let his nukes fly. The US vs. USSR cold war stayed cold because both sides were at least intelligent enough to realize that using their best weapons to win a "hot" war meant both sides lose and no victory for anyone. With the technology's inevitable proliferation, it'll soon be in the hands of people who don't think it through or don't care, if it isn't already. Lunatic fringe states like North Korea can have the bomb if they want it badly enough now, and it'll only get worse. Sure, it'd be suicide to start a nuclear war, but it's also suicide to wear a bandolier of TNT and blow yourself up along with your target mosque / embassy / military base / whatever. That happens far too often, the only difference is one of scale. All it takes is one person with that kind of mindset with nukes at his disposal to mindfuck everyone's future. Someone with nothing to lose sometimes doesn't mind losing if the other guy loses too. Anyway, if WW3 were to happen, chances are that some lunatic with nothing to lose will have the means to ensure that the other side loses along with everyone else. That's scary.

If we fight a war and win it with H-bombs, what history will remember is not the ideals we were fighting for but the methods we used to accomplish them. These methods will be compared to the warfare of Genghis Khan who ruthlessly killed every last inhabitant of Persia. -- Hans Bethe
 
Killing people and ruining lives.

One of my family's closest friends is an 81 year old man who survived World War 2 but was orphaned in it and physically handicapped. It ruined his life. Yeah, getting rid of Hitler, great 10/10, but at what cost?

Now the same thing is happening in the Middle East, except this time no one cares because it's brown people being blown up, orphaned, handicapped, traumatized. And the cycle continues. American's are outraged whenever a soldier dies, but when 30 Sunni/Shi'ite Muslim's die? No one cares. Another nameless causality, even though they had families and friends just like the American who'll miss them too.
 
Stalin said:
Killing people and ruining lives.
. . . . . .Now the same thing is happening in the Middle East, except this time no one cares because it's brown people being blown up, orphaned, handicapped, traumatized. And the cycle continues. American's are outraged whenever a soldier dies, but when 30 Sunni/Shi'ite Muslim's die? No one cares. Another nameless causality, even though they had families and friends just like the American who'll miss them too.
I'm in the American military, and I do care if civilians are harmed, whether they be Muslims or not. The policy of all branches of the American military is to take all possible measures to prevent and minimize collateral damage. I have to say that American society is generally insensitive and indifferent to the rest of the world, but the American military is highly professional.
 
War is good for ridding the world of brown people. At least, that's what America uses it for.
 
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From now on all wars will be settled with dancing competitions and beauty pageants.
 
Black Sonichu said:
War is good for ridding the world of brown people. At least, that's what America uses it for.
That's not true. Americans aren't on some vendetta against brown people around the world, we just act to protect our own interests when necessary. The only reason we're in Afghanistan, for instance, is because we can't let terrorists use it as a base to attack CONUS from. We have no desire to control the people there, or rule the country as a military dictatorship. We simply want to disrupt terrorism and violent anti-american activities.
 
Salto said:
ABSOLUTELY NOOOOOOOTHING!
SAY IT AGAIN Y'ALL!


But in all seriousness, war has had its place when it comes to taking down the Axis powers and historically was used to gain resources and better survival, but nowadays I believe there could be a much better way to get those things. I could go into a giant hippie/commie sh-peel about how even though they say we get freedom through war, we're enslaved to the idea of it, but I'll spare you on that one. I just don't think it's good for much and in this day and age, aside from stopping a real, complete, psychopath, war shouldn't have much of a place as it once did.
 
If it wasn't for war, we wouldn't have M&M's.

Wrap your heads around that one before criticizing the military.
 
War is very, very good for those people who can benefit from it, like companies producing weaponry for the American army or companies who get contracts for reconstructing the infrastructure in the freshly-"liberated" country.
For civilians on the ground who have to deal with the consequences of war, it is really bad. But who cares about them?
 
83858267_79268d42a1.jpg
 
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Only in the US was slavery ended by war. And the real advancement for African-Americans came through peaceful resistance.

Fascism/Nazism, like any extreme governmental type, would've collapsed on its own. Upon Hitler's death, Nazi Germany would've imploded. Their economy also sucked, only working because of wartime production. It never would've worked in peacetime.

Communism was never defeated by war. It collapsed on its own, just as any other extreme government would've. The US lost Vietnam, and didn't solve communism.

Baathism still exists, so it wasn't defeated in the Iran-Iraq war.

Your argument doesn't work.
 
Implying Communism is the absolute worst thing in the whole wide word.

and i still see Neo-Nazis running around.

and who the fuck knows when the next fascist leader will show his head up and even then Stalin is right, that shit would collapse in on itself sooner or later.
 
Stalin said:
Only in the US was slavery ended by war. And the real advancement for African-Americans came through peaceful resistance.

Fascism/Nazism, like any extreme governmental type, would've collapsed on its own. Upon Hitler's death, Nazi Germany would've imploded. Their economy also sucked, only working because of wartime production. It never would've worked in peacetime.

Communism was never defeated by war. It collapsed on its own, just as any other extreme government would've. The US lost Vietnam, and didn't solve communism.

Baathism still exists, so it wasn't defeated in the Iran-Iraq war.

Your argument doesn't work.

It wasn't a serious post, I only posted the picture for lulz. Devil's advocate and all that. You don't have to agree with me on this stuff, I'm just doing this for the sake of debate. I may also put in some historical details as well below, for those of you who like that stuff.

I don't believe advancement for African-Americans came from any one source, it was a number of factors and a number of different people. It is possible that the government's fear of what the Black Panthers might be capable of had something to do with it as well. Of course, not entirely, but in part. And it took over a hundred years for anything to really start happening anyway. Of course, things still aren't perfect in that respect here in the US.

It's hard to say whether or not fascism would have lasted had Germany won the war. Another fascist regime in Spain, under military leader Francisco Franco, lasted for a very long time, from 1939 to Franco's death in 1975. Sure, it didn't continue after he passed away, but I believe it does show that fascist regimes are capable of at least staying afloat if not at war with their neighbors. It's hard to say whether the Nazi regime would have lasted after the death of Hitler, but he did have a successor chosen named Reinhard Heydrich. Heydrich, however, was assassinated by Czech partisans in June 1942. There's no reason to believe a new one would have been picked, though.

Some would argue that taking action in Vietnam did have a role in slowing or preventing the spread of communism, but there is little evidence to prove this. The part of the war I find most peculiar is the fact that US forces won most engagements with the NVA and Vietcong, and still lost in the end. While the losses on the NVA/VC side were many times greater than the US/South Vietnamese side, the communist forces never quit. It was a war of attrition, and apparently the communists were willing to throw far more troops away than the American and South Vietnamese forces were. Of course, the capitals of Laos and Cambodia were overrun by communist guerrillas and that too probably affected the outcome of the Vietnam War. Enemies all around. Even communist countries were at odds sometimes, the Soviet Union and China split in the 1960s over ideological disagreements, and had a number of border disputes. Also, going back to Southeast Asia, Vietnam (now unified under communist rule in Hanoi) and Cambodia (ruled by the Khmer Rouge) went to war in 1975 as well, both communist, and backed by the Soviets and Chinese in that respective order.

And while the Soviet Union no longer exists, China still does. And while the Chinese Communist Party is still in power, they have adapted to the world and turned their economy into a market economy, so effectively, China may in practice be more fascist than communist. Under fascism, businesses are allowed to be privately owned, as long as they serve the interests of the state. Kim Jong Un has been looking at China as a model to emulate for North Korea's economy. Personally, I think it's a miracle that country hasn't collapsed. Or perhaps it's because Kim's only ally, China, is helping out a lot to maintain a buffer zone with the democratic South.

Another thing to look out for is that North Korea has nuclear weapons now, but it is unknown what the strength of their warheads may be, or the capability of their missiles to accurately deliver such a payload at an effective range. They have all the conventional artillery they need to take the southern half of the peninsula, and North Korean forces are believed to own some stockpiles of chemical and biological agents as well. Of course, the irony of North Korea being propped up by China is in the fact that it's in China's best interest to keep the peninsula divided, so no matter how much Pyongyang wishes it, China will not allow the South to be invaded and annexed. Also, without Beijing's blessings and patience, the regime in North Korea might not have lasted as long as it has. Historically, Korea has often been divided into separate kingdoms and/or occupied by foreign invaders (such as Japan from the early 20th century to the end of World War II), so it makes a lot of strategic sense for China to keep the northern half separate from that of the south. While a second war in Korea is a possibility, it is also somewhat unlikely at this given time. Actually, come to think of it, the Korean War never officially ended, there's simply a cease fire at the moment.

Baathism exists in Syria, yes, but no longer is it the primary ideology in Iraq. Who knows what's going to happen there, though, with Al-Qaeda's affiliate (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) gaining power in Fallujah and the western provinces? We may yet see a mix of radical religious ideologies and other groups attempting to take Saddam's place.

The Baath Party in itself (and Baathism as an ideology) exists in a few different countries in various forms, but is largely in disarray in Iraq and in danger of disappearing in Syria at some point. I'm not completely sure on that, though, the war has been continuous for the past three years and shows little sign of slowing down. I'll have to read more to respond in detail about Baathism. The Iran-Iraq War itself showed Saddam Hussein's lack of military genius when he passed up an opportunity to capture Tehran when it was still in disarray from the Iranian Revolution, and allowed the Iranian forces to rally against him. He ordered his troops to stop at the oilfields of Iran, an object of his obsession. Baathism itself is a secular pan-Arab ideology, and Saddam built his Baath Party using Hitler's party as a model of sorts for how it would be organized, if not copying its ideology.

Sorry for the long winded response, I just figured I should share my thoughts a bit.

But who knows if war has ever really solved anything? When one war ends, another is quick to take its place.
 
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