Warhammer 40k

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So, as an unapologetic Lorecell who is really only into 40k for the Lore (since even the books are fucking expensive, don't get me started on the minis), I've been pondering how despite the massive barrier to entry into the Universe of 40k, the setting seems to be experiencing an explosion of memes, fan art, and general popular culture awareness. To include a potential TV show (at some point).

And the only conclusion I have is that GW by pure serendipity actually hit on something truly, truly subversive to the modern popular culture zeitgeist. So subversive and edgy its Tolkien level. What do I mean by that. Well, science fiction and fantasy writers are two sides of the same coin. Its why the books tend to get put in the same library section. Fantasy authors (like Tolkien) write speculative pasts. While Science Fiction authors write speculative futures. Both of which seek to inform and meditate on the nature of the present .

Tolkien broke into the mainstream by depicting in many respects a degenerated past that fed into our degenerated present. To Tolkien the march of History is not one of improvement. Its of loss. Rome in 2023 is a shadow of what Rome was 2000 years in 0023. Beijing and Kyoto in 2023 are a shadow of what they were 0023 for that matter. To Tolkien progress is not inherently a good thing. Its in fact a chaotic agent. It pushes the wheel of history, but the results are often not as good as advertised and the inevitable result is things that were once precious are lost and forgotten, while malevolent forces and ideas that are eternal get buried in the dust of history along with them.

The solution to Tolkien is the modifying power of tradition and faith to constrain the chaos of progress. Aragorn restoring the monarchy of dead Empire. Merry and Pippin awakening ancient forest spirits to destroy the industrial might of Isengard. It was a revolutionary take on the Fantasy genre and its the reason why Tolkien basically became the gold standard for it going foreword.

There really has not been an answer to it on the Science Fiction side of things however. Heinlein and Herbert attempted this to some respect with Starship Troopers and Dune respectively. But their books were pretty turgid, and while well received really failed to capture the imagination when compared to more hard core "March of Progress" science fiction authors like Roddenberry and George Lucas, who have essentially dominated the Science Fiction landscape as the gold standard over the period of time where Tolkien has defined Fantasy.

And then along came a bunch feral nerds and their company selling over priced plastic war games. Who wanted to build a story around it. And they all thought Tolkien and Herbert were pretty cool, so they smashed the two together and called it Warhammer 40k. And from that merger, something else emerged. Anti-Star Trek. A vision of humanities future where the defining feature is not the human desire to explore. Rather the human desire to survive. What started off as a rather silly "satire" (and yes, I know GW maintains its still just a satire), has turned into something else entirely I think.

Despite the protestations that the Imperium are "The bad guys" just like "everyone else" in the grim dark future, I don't think this is entirely accurate. It would be more accurate to say the Imperium is a degenerated form brought on by progress. Humanity undone by its own technology, pushed to the brink and forced to return to tradition and faith to save itself from the very ~ REAL ~ terrors that dwell in the dark. If the metaphysical manifestation of chaotic change, tzeench, is out to ruin your life for the lolz. you too would suddenly find yourself praying the imperial rosary every day and enjoying your peaceful day of labor in the factorum, that was the same today, as it was for the last 999,999,998 days. And if those las guns you have been making all your life happen to be useful somewhere else in the galaxy, all the better.

At that is the kicker here. Nobody can see themselves as Paul Atreidies in dune. Nor as Rico in Star Ship troopers. But they CAN see themselves as that scared kid running across the wastes of Titan to reach the Grey Knights citadel. Or as some unlucky guardsman ordered by the Commissar to fix Bayonets as a Tyrranid Swarm approaches the trench line. There is something intensely primal in these sorts of stories, and ones that call to a mythological longing that is completely lacking in modern science fiction. Who would a young boy rather be? Captain Picard negotiating a peace treaty between two rando alien planets on the brink of war due to a trade dispute, or Commander Dante, fighting and prevailing over the centuries against ever greater and greater odds, leading a dwindling band of ancient warriors in a losing battle against the dying of an age?

Kinda like Aragorn at the Black Gates when you think about it. There is nothing like it in modern science fiction. Certainly not something with the same cultural awareness.

I conclude with this fan film that applies the song "I'm only human" with 40k cinematics.


Its ALSO important to put the emergence of 40k as a property in its PRESENT.

This is a speech, dramatized, by Ronald Reagan that was given in the same decade as the start of the 40k franchise.

 
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From a points efficiency standpoint, it seems to me that Lokhust Heavy Destroyers would probably be the best AT option in the index if you can hide them well
Now they probably are the best option with the points changes. Strategem changes also hurt them pretty bad. Overlords, and lychguard probably aren't going to be auto take anymore. They buffed the monolith even thought it was already good. The transcendent C'tan is probably no longer viable under 2k pts. They clearly wanted to tame necron's durability but it seems like they caught a bunch of secondary nerfs due to GW trying to reign in Aeldari. I wish they would just make index changes because nerfing the wraith knight cannon by changing core rules seems heavy handed. I have no idea how good necrons will be going forward but every meta list right now is currently obsolete. Their playstyle is going to change a bit. I think tesla immortals might see some use now.
 
So, as an unapologetic Lorecell who is really only into 40k for the Lore (since even the books are fucking expensive, don't get me started on the minis), I've been pondering how despite the massive barrier to entry into the Universe of 40k, the setting seems to be experiencing an explosion of memes, fan art, and general popular culture awareness. To include a potential TV show (at some point).
Looking at the pure economics of it it's almost baffling that GW doesn't get picked up by a video game company or the like. It would be absurdly cheap for the IP.

Your take is pretty decent, really. I too am a lore person - I played, but mostly 1st and a little 2nd.So not in a long, long goddamn time.
 
@mindlessobserver , sorry it won't let me reply.

I think the explosion in popularity for Warhammer also has to do with the lower barrier of entry into the lore. The models are expensive, and require effort to assemble, paint, and learn the rules for the tabletop. The lore however has multiple ways someone could learn about it. From Tiktok, lore videos, and wikipedia pages.

I know multiple people that whenever they bring up Warhammer to me they usually refer to memes, or have a superficial understanding of certain things. I've seen friends share Tiktok videos of people doing quick explanations usually going for the most obvious or stereotypical aspects of factions or characters.

Just like other IPs like Dune or Star Trek it's been around forever, but has mainly been popular with nerds. With all the nerdy things becoming mainstream it was only a matter of time before Warhammer became known to the normies. Just like video games going from being seen as childish to having almost everyone playing some form of video game, you have Warhammer going from a niche tabletop game to people making careers off of making videos about it.
 
I think it's a bit more than that. 40k skirts the line between a lot of things that most properties fall into extremes off:
* A lot of factions, but each one is different visually and mechanically with. Almost every other property is extremely human centric with little variance between humans (examples are pretty much every other scifi being entirely human centric, while DND has so many races that nothing is distinguishable).
* Lots of things happening all at once. It's not like Star Wars where there is a single conflict and once it ends the only way to continue is to start it again with tiny variations. This makes things never feel too repetitive, you can have a tiny group of soldiers saving a world, or a massive fleet saving a solar system.
* Balance of cynicism and optimism, with focus on faith. A lot of scifi likes to do the "we're better humans in the future and atheistic" which makes absolutely no sense and can already be seen to be wrong with Zoomers. 40K shows that in the dark future of humanity there is shit load of bureaucrats, religion and good people saving the day.
* Lots of genres. Some literature is serious and optimistic, some is brutal and pessimistic, some more horror, some more comedy. You never get the sense you just reread the same novel over and over.

Also the "Imperium are the bad guys" is wrong for decades by this point. Pretty much every time some alternative to the Imperium is shown, it is obviously something that won't survive for long. While the world in the Imperium itself can be alright depending on the government. Ironically the Imperium is more lenient with how planets should run themselves than the modern western world governments.
 
Looking at the pure economics of it it's almost baffling that GW doesn't get picked up by a video game company or the like. It would be absurdly cheap for the IP.
GW seems to have been handing out licenses for games like Christmas candy, but no AAA studios have bitten. Something for which I am immensely grateful, because you know they would fill it with gender critical current year nonsense, commie wanking and turbo atheism.

That said I am cautiously optimistic about the upcoming rogue trader game from owlcat.
 
GW seems to have been handing out licenses for games like Christmas candy, but no AAA studios have bitten. Something for which I am immensely grateful, because you know they would fill it with gender critical current year nonsense, commie wanking and turbo atheism.

That said I am cautiously optimistic about the upcoming rogue trader game from owlcat.
Starcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer IP but licensing negotiations broke down before the game released. It's probably a good thing that a huge studio hasn't picked up 40k because GW clearly has no quality control when it comes to video games. The vast majority of them are trash.
 
Now they probably are the best option with the points changes. Strategem changes also hurt them pretty bad. Overlords, and lychguard probably aren't going to be auto take anymore. They buffed the monolith even thought it was already good. The transcendent C'tan is probably no longer viable under 2k pts. They clearly wanted to tame necron's durability but it seems like they caught a bunch of secondary nerfs due to GW trying to reign in Aeldari. I wish they would just make index changes because nerfing the wraith knight cannon by changing core rules seems heavy handed. I have no idea how good necrons will be going forward but every meta list right now is currently obsolete. Their playstyle is going to change a bit. I think tesla immortals might see some use now.
Warriors and Illuminor getting cheaper at the same time makes me think the new necron hotness will be Szeras + 2 warrior blobs, a single Lychguard blob, a Re-animator, a bunch of Heavy Destroyers, Transcendant Ctan and a few characters sprinkled in.
 
Starcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer IP but licensing negotiations broke down before the game released. It's probably a good thing that a huge studio hasn't picked up 40k because GW clearly has no quality control when it comes to video games. The vast majority of them are trash.
Well, we're getting a Space Marine 2 finally, and the first one was surprisingly good, especially considering Relic is all about RTS games.
 
Warriors and Illuminor getting cheaper at the same time makes me think the new necron hotness will be Szeras + 2 warrior blobs, a single Lychguard blob, a Re-animator, a bunch of Heavy Destroyers, Transcendant Ctan and a few characters sprinkled in.
Szeras and warrior balls seems likely. I think the strategem nerf indirectly hurts ghost arks because it's now going to be too difficult to keep 10 warriors alive. I'll need to fuck around with some lists and see what we'll have room for. Battlescribe isn't updated yet, I'm not paying for the app, and I don't have time to pencil out a list right now. Either way it seems a little fucked hitting necrons like they did when they have a 51% win rate.
 
Since this seems to be the Warhammer General thread I'll just dump my autism here.

I wish to choke every faggy French devs in Cyanide for releasing the abortion that was Blood Bowl 3. They somehow managed to release a turn-based tabletop derived video game in a broken state. I wish to shank the devs for the absolute godawful """"support""" the game gotten since release, and the absolutely snail-paced updates that made the game bleed players since release and is now probably dead on arrival unless they somehow turn it around. They somehow managed to release a game, reliant on players running their own little competitions and such, with absolutely godawful administration tools and no way to properly run a league. What the ever-loving fuck is Gee Dubs doing by entrusting this particular game to this piece of shit studio who seemed unable to tie their own shoes if they tried?

I just want my fantasy violent football game in nice clean 3D and using the latest BB2020 rulebook. Is that too much to ask for?
 
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I've been pondering how despite the massive barrier to entry into the Universe of 40k, the setting seems to be experiencing an explosion of memes, fan art, and general popular culture awareness. To include a potential TV show (at some point).
The thing about memes is that the good ones spread. So it's very easy to gain a superficial understanding of 40k just via general discourse, or lets be fair here a very inaccurate view of it basically being a clown show in space (which seems to be the meme that has stuck and spread the best),
I doubt a lot of people who call themselves 40K fans could really tell you much about the lore, crunch or plastic. They're fans in the same way people use to be fans of the science because they liked some photos of planets and nebula. Or to compare like to like people who are fans of Star Wars but maybe only watched the movies once or twice and maybe half watched the Disney+ series... and mostly posts Star Wars memes.
 
Apologies off the rip for more lore fagging. I also know I’m years late here but I fell out of 40k for a while. I’m super interested in the new current day of 40k, specifically the return of Big Bobby G and especially the return of Lion El Johnson. My question is what should I read, to well, read about this, and is there anything I should avoid?
I ask here because I realllllly don’t want to have to go ask Reddit.
Thank you, the Emperor Protects.
 
Or to compare like to like people who are fans of Star Wars but maybe only watched the movies once or twice and maybe half watched the Disney+ series... and mostly posts Star Wars memes.
The thing that sets apart a common cultural moment and a niche hobby is how well the themes are translated to the masses. The difference between an Epic and a Good Story is how well a story impacts the culture, and mediates on the time on which it takes place in. The translation of a Work from a niche corner of the culture into mainstream popular conciousness can only occur if the artifact of culture presents itself as it is and captures the imagination.

The reason the phrase "Updated for Modern Audiences" causes so much rage among hard core fans is because this is an admission the item presented to the masses is not the genuine article. It is not seeking to shape culture. It has let the existing culture shape it. Making it boring, pedestrian and safe. And worse for the fans, not a true depiction.

This is why the Peter Jackson adaptations of LOTR were well received, and became classics of film. Because they didn't try to alter the central themes of the story and instead approached the subject matter reverently and any changes made were done with the idea of translating the Tolkien books into a visual medium. Nobody involved in that project dared to assume it was their mission to alter the story to fit their own artistic vision.

I sincerely hope GW realizes just how precious a gem they have at there hands to deploy. They should not be trying to adapt warhammer to appeal to normies. They should present the unvarnished, pure turbo autism of humanity pushed to the bring and forced to return to faith and war to survive. It would be something the Normies have not seen in decades, if ever. It would be new. It would be "cool". They would make a shit ton of money too, just like Lucas did when he turned Sci Fi on its head by depicting a lived in Universe full of space wizards and rogues instead of diplomats and scientists.

Also the "Imperium are the bad guys" is wrong for decades by this point. Pretty much every time some alternative to the Imperium is shown, it is obviously something that won't survive for long. While the world in the Imperium itself can be alright depending on the government. Ironically the Imperium is more lenient with how planets should run themselves than the modern western world governments.
Also this. The Imperium in aggregation just demands two things. Obey the tenets of the Imperial Creed, and pay your taxes. Do those two things and your planet gets to fuck off and do whatever it wants. For the average citizen on the ground of a planet (and planets are fucking huge) the idea that there is some galaxy spanning what the fuck is as alien to them as they are to the Sector Governor who sees them as just a single digit on a ledger that lists human lives in the countless billions.

So it can be said that the Sector Governor, the local garrison fleet and the few dozen inquisitors are some heartless monsters who don't value each individual human life. But they can't do that. They literally cannot because in this setting they may have to sacrifice your planet and everyone on it if it means saving five other planets in the sector which may be just as populated if not MORE populated then yours.

Against the enormity of the Universe, the Imperium is spread thin. yet it remains a great bulwark against mankinds own weaknesses and the terror that dwells in the dark.
 
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Apologies off the rip for more lore fagging. I also know I’m years late here but I fell out of 40k for a while. I’m super interested in the new current day of 40k, specifically the return of Big Bobby G and especially the return of Lion El Johnson. My question is what should I read, to well, read about this, and is there anything I should avoid?
I ask here because I realllllly don’t want to have to go ask Reddit.
Thank you, the Emperor Protects.
Will try to recommend in a sort of reading order:

Watchers of the Throne series and Vaults of Terra series by Chris Wraight are a good starting point. They deal with the opening of the rift, Guiliman's return and the impact on Terra from both events. Also main lore for him being resurrected is in Gathering Storm books, along with the destruction of Cadia that lead to the rift and the Imperium in 2 halves.

Dark Imperium Trilogy by Guy Haley, set/retconned to 12 years after the previous mentions with it's focus on Guiliman vs Mortarion.

The timeline gap is currently being filled in with the Dawn of Fire series, total 9 novels with different authors covering the different fleets Guiliman sent across the Galaxy though think it's 6 released so far, latest had cover/blurb announced the other day, no release date yet or at least that I've seen.

Dante, Devastation of Baal, Mephiston trilogy, Spear of the Emperor and Bellisarius Cawl: the Great Work are others to expand what's currently going on.

The return of Lion El Jonson is covered in Lion, Son of the Forest and Ark of Omen:the Lion.

Would also recommend the Infinite and the Divine as it's a quite enjoyable read, might even be a link back in the thread for it.
 
Despite the protestations that the Imperium are "The bad guys" just like "everyone else" in the grim dark future, I don't think this is entirely accurate. It would be more accurate to say the Imperium is a degenerated form brought on by progress. Humanity undone by its own technology, pushed to the brink and forced to return to tradition and faith to save itself from the very ~ REAL ~ terrors that dwell in the dark. If the metaphysical manifestation of chaotic change, tzeench, is out to ruin your life for the lolz. you too would suddenly find yourself praying the imperial rosary every day and enjoying your peaceful day of labor in the factorum, that was the same today, as it was for the last 999,999,998 days. And if those las guns you have been making all your life happen to be useful somewhere else in the galaxy, all the better.
Also the "Imperium are the bad guys" is wrong for decades by this point. Pretty much every time some alternative to the Imperium is shown, it is obviously something that won't survive for long. While the world in the Imperium itself can be alright depending on the government. Ironically the Imperium is more lenient with how planets should run themselves than the modern western world governments.
The Imperium isn't edgy for "getting the soccer moms mad", it is brutal because it is needed to.

The humans aren't the bad guys, they are the guys who are cornered and must fight, no matter the cost.
Against the enormity of the Universe, the Imperium is spread thin. yet it remains a great bulwark against mankinds own weaknesses and the terror that dwells in the dark.
Anyone who argues that the Imperium are bad guys is hooked on copium, including GW whenever they cry satire in damage-controlling public statements. The truth is that despite the "grimdark" setting, 40k is chocked full of heroic narratives of good versus evil with the human-centric Imperium in the starring role for consumers to find commonality with. It's worth noting that in both major eras (30k and 40k), the Imperium is on the defense, and its militarism is completely justified in light of the numerous non-negotiable, genocidal forces it's set against. This defensive war is further emphasized in recent years as the current storyline of the Indomitus Crusade is not about the Guilliman-led Imperium conquering new territory, but rather recovering losses from the Great Rift. On the micro level, individual stories constantly provide virtuous protagonists who glorify the Emperor and fight on behalf of the Imperium against existential threats, sometimes even though they've been personally wronged by the Imperium in some fashion.

You can bet that whenever the Amazon deal manifests into actual media, we're going to get a band of Imperium-aligned good guys fighting valiantly against bad guys that endanger the Imperial order.
 
Everyone is bad and everyone is justified in one way or another of being bad. You're all coping.
 
Anyone who argues that the Imperium are bad guys is hooked on copium, including GW whenever they cry satire in damage-controlling public statements. The truth is that despite the "grimdark" setting, 40k is chocked full of heroic narratives of good versus evil with the human-centric Imperium in the starring role for consumers to find commonality with. It's worth noting that in both major eras (30k and 40k), the Imperium is on the defense, and its militarism is completely justified in light of the numerous non-negotiable, genocidal forces it's set against. This defensive war is further emphasized in recent years as the current storyline of the Indomitus Crusade is not about the Guilliman-led Imperium conquering new territory, but rather recovering losses from the Great Rift. On the micro level, individual stories constantly provide virtuous protagonists who glorify the Emperor and fight on behalf of the Imperium against existential threats, sometimes even though they've been personally wronged by the Imperium in some fashion.
It's especially correct nowadays when things like believing in the God Emperor is proven to have tangible effects on reality, so it's no longer some crazy cult. As well as tons of "approved mutations" with things not falling into that also shown to be extremely likely to turn to chaos.

The Tau on the other hand are way more bugmen authoritarians, with mass sterilizations of undesirables, strict racial and interracial hierarchies and job limitations.
 
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