Warhammer 40k

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I started playing the latest Pathfinder game and the first party member is a black female paladin, and the first npc you help is lesbian married to a half orc.

Only hope is the setting limits how degenerate they can be.
It gets better. The lesbian is also trans.
 
I started playing the latest Pathfinder game and the first party member is a black female paladin, and the first npc you help is lesbian married to a half orc.

Only hope is the setting limits how degenerate they can be.
Become a swarm of bugs and just kill all of them.

A lich should also work , kill the tranny resurrect him and look at what kind of skeleton he has.
 
I started playing the latest Pathfinder game and the first party member is a black female paladin, and the first npc you help is lesbian married to a half orc.

Only hope is the setting limits how degenerate they can be.
that's because it's already in the pnp source material.

as for limits, take a look at the BL. GW never gave a fuck besides plastic sales.
 
I can just imagine the production meeting

Amazon: "OK so who are the baddies? who's the hero and his faction?"
GW: Well you see, it's complicated. In this setting th..
GW sales: The ultramarines! They're the good guys! And Roboute Gilliman is the hero
A: Can we make these skull robot guys the bad guys? No blood when they get killed means we can get a lower rating
GW sales: No problem!
 
My impossible dream is that the entirety of season one will be PDF vs Genestealers until the drop pods start landing in the final shot of the final episode.
You might get that for the first few minutes of the opening episode at best.
 
Unironically yes, GillyMan solved a lot issued plaguing the Imperium and in general is way more chill.
Yeah, and the Imperium hates his guts for ruining their gravy train. The Ecclesiarchy hates him because he's rather understandably not really all that fond of Daddy (or himself) being worshipped. The Inquisition hates his guts because he can and will hold them accountable when they fuck up when before they had a free hand for just about anything. Same with the AdMech, especially since he's making them actually be productive and innovative, even if Cawl likes to be a bit too innovative. And the Administratum really fucking hates him because he's making them sort their archives out and get their shit in order so he can have the info he needs to rule, and we all know nobody is allowed to rule but His Divine Majesty's Civil Service.
 
Doing a tournament soon. Rate my 2k Guard list. or if you can't be bothered, just tell me your fav Unit atm.

Also, the Malcador Defender is a sleeper hit. It's so brutal against close combat armies, especially anything elite like custodes.
CHARACTER

Lord Solar Leontus (125 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Conquest
1x Konstantin’s hooves
1x Sol’s Righteous Gaze

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad (80 points)
• 1x Tempestor Prime
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Tempestus dagger
• 4x Tempestus Scion
• 4x Close combat weapon
2x Hot-shot lasgun
1x Hot-shot volley gun
1x Medi-pack
1x Plasma gun
1x Regimental Standard

Platoon Command Squad (60 points)
• 1x Platoon Commander
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
• 2x Veteran Guardsman
• 2x Close combat weapon
2x Lasgun
2x Laspistol
1x Master Vox
1x Medi-pack
• 1x Veteran Heavy Weapons Team
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
1x Mortar

Regimental Enginseer (45 points)
• 1x Archeotech pistol
1x Enginseer axe
1x Servo-arm


BATTLELINE

Cadian Shock Troops (60 points)
• 1x Shock Trooper Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Drum-fed autogun
• 9x Shock Trooper
• 9x Close combat weapon
1x Grenade launcher
7x Lasgun
1x Plasma gun
1x Vox-caster

Infantry Squad (60 points)
• 1x Sergeant
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
• 7x Guardsman
• 7x Close combat weapon
1x Grenade launcher
6x Lasgun
• 1x Heavy Weapons Team
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
1x Mortar

Infantry Squad (60 points)
• 1x Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Guardsman
• 9x Close combat weapon
9x Lasgun

Infantry Squad (60 points)
• 1x Sergeant
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Laspistol
• 9x Guardsman
• 9x Close combat weapon
9x Lasgun


OTHER DATASHEETS

Basilisk (135 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Earthshaker cannon
1x Heavy bolter
1x Hunter-killer missile

Leman Russ Battle Tank (180 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
2x Heavy bolter
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
1x Leman Russ battle cannon

Leman Russ Demolisher (200 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Demolisher battle cannon
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
2x Multi-melta

Leman Russ Exterminator (180 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Exterminator autocannon
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Lascannon
2x Plasma cannon

Malcador Defender (310 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Demolisher cannon
5x Heavy bolter
1x Heavy stubber
1x Hunter-killer missile
2x Lascannon

Manticore (150 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Heavy bolter
1x Hunter-killer missile
1x Storm eagle rockets

Scout Sentinels (180 points)
• 3x Scout Sentinel
• 3x Autocannon
3x Close combat weapon
3x Hunter-killer missile
3x Sentinel chainsaw

Tempestus Scions (110 points)
• 1x Tempestor
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 9x Tempestus Scion
• 9x Close combat weapon
1x Grenade launcher
5x Hot-shot lasgun
2x Meltagun
1x Plasma gun
I'm not doing massed sentinel / arty spam since I'm not gonna buy loads of units only for them to be nerfed instantly.

But yeah, Guard has been so much for casual this edition. I'm interested what other people think.
 
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@Alter Ego
Anyone who argues that the Imperium are bad guys is hooked on copium, including GW whenever they cry satire in damage-controlling public statements. The truth is that despite the "grimdark" setting, 40k is chocked full of heroic narratives of good versus evil with the human-centric Imperium in the starring role for consumers to find commonality with. It's worth noting that in both major eras (30k and 40k), the Imperium is on the defense, and its militarism is completely justified in light of the numerous non-negotiable, genocidal forces it's set against. This defensive war is further emphasized in recent years as the current storyline of the Indomitus Crusade is not about the Guilliman-led Imperium conquering new territory, but rather recovering losses from the Great Rift. On the micro level, individual stories constantly provide virtuous protagonists who glorify the Emperor and fight on behalf of the Imperium against existential threats, sometimes even though they've been personally wronged by the Imperium in some fashion.

It's basically a thing I've seen with British sci-fi and comics. 2000 AD wants you to see Judge Dredd as a fascist oppressor, Alan Moore wants Rorschach to be a warning against costumed superheroes, and Games Workshop's left-wing authors wanted you to see the Space Marines the same way one would look at a member of the Taliban, or a Nazi SS officer.

But people don't. Instead, they love the Space Marines. They love Judge Dredd. They love Rorschach. Why is that?

Because people love characters who fight for what they believe, even when the authors don't.

The writers of things like Judge Dredd, Warhammer 40K, and Watchmen approach things from a post-modern ''nothing is right'' point of view, where there is no objective right or wrong, aside from their point of view that the only true evils are the far-right militarists, law enforcement, and religious nutjobs. Britain, which had long been torn between tradition and progressivism, was a breeding ground for such subversive thoughts, especially since many among the British Left really despised how politics were like during the 80s. The Soviets fell, the religious right regained a lot of authority that they lost in the past two centuries, the Anglosphere was ruled by conservative politicians, etc.. Stories like 40K were originally created by anti-religious, anti-right wing nerds who were pissed off that Margaret Thatcher was their prime minister while Reagan was president in the USA. So they expressed their anger through fiction, creating bombastic, brutal, illogical morons who represent everything that they hate. But instead of being hated, these characters wound up being loved.

In 40K, the supposed ''real evil'' is the Imperium and its dogmatic ways; the original intent of the story when it was first written is that the Space Marines and the Imperium would be halfway to solving all their problems if they all held hands together, sang koombayah, and abandoned all that religious and xenophobic stuff for ''rational thought'' and the enlightenment-era's anti-religious notions of reason. The whole story was written as a big fat ''fuck you'' to the Middle Ages' Age of Faith, showing how even a high-tech society can crumble into superstition and idiocy if it adopts certain religious beliefs.

If the original writers of 40K's story could write an ending to it, they'd have the Emperor come back from the dead, only for him to tear down the Imperial Cult, tear down anything religious or fanatical about the Imperium, go full Voltaire and turn the Imperium into an enlightened despot state, and they'd solve every problem in the galaxy, from Chaos, to the Tyranids, to the Orks and Dark Eldar, through a judicious application of science, reason, and atheist logic, and the Emperor passes the torch on to the next generation of secular leaders who rule with reason and kindness.

That, or the Emperor remains dead, the Imperium keeps going on as a state full of superstitious quacks, and they all get eaten by the Orks, Chaos, or Tyranids when their inability to tolerate other aliens and dismiss religion for ''reason'' leads to their demise.

But the story has changed to the point where, if the Imperium did abandon religion, they'd handicap themselves since praying to the Emperor grants them miracles, and all that human sacrifice, both on the battlefield and on the Golden Throne, keeps the Chaos gods and other enemies of man in check. Mostly because fans of the Space Marines and the Imperium got hired by GW to write stories, since they need to sell books to people who buy Space Marine minis, and to no-one's great surprise, they re-tooled the story to make a lot of what the Imperium does to be correct. Researching new tech is dangerous and can lead to corruption. Praying to the Emperor, instead of being the 40K equivalent of offering incense to a false idol, grants you miracles that can heal and protect you.

Thanks to all these changes, a lot of people who believe in nationalism, religion, and tradition became fans of 40K. If the Emperor suddenly came back and shat all over that stuff, they'd lose their new fanbase. Hence why GW plays both sides by paying lip service to the idea of 40K being a satire of religion and fascism, but not actually going through with it.

You also have to look at the modern culture and it's social angle, which I argue had a LOT of influence on how people see 40K today. Back in the 90s and early 2000s, when the West was still optimistic and Christian, few people would give a damn about a series like Warhammer 40K due to it being too dark; it'd be like Starcraft or Fallout where the story is dark and interesting, but the culture is optimistic and bright, and no one would really care about things like that. 40K was just be in the backburner while kids obsessed over things like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, the DC and Marvel movies, the Transformers series, other anime and video game franchises, and so on. When you mentioned the word ''Space Marine'', the average dork thinks about the armor-clad warriors from Starcraft, Halo, Gears of War, or the soldiers from films such as Aliens, Starship Troopers, or James Cameron's Avatar. They wouldn't think about the Space Marines of 40K.

But years of the Left having dominated the political discourse in the post-Bush years, combined with the Left's constant worship of subjective, subversive ideology that shits all over everything that many people know and love, from religion, to nationalism, to masculinity and family values, has made people sick to death of that shit, enough to the point where people turn to things like 40K as a substitute, especially with the Left controlling things like the MCU and Star Wars. People, especially from the right, are sick to death of liberals telling them that national identity isn't worth defending because they're imperialist dogs, that their beliefs are wrong, that their most cherished ideas and faiths are not part of the new, modern, secular world, that they're sexist pigs for looking at a chick with hot tits, or that they're monsters for not wanting to get in bed with a "woman" who happens to be a mutilated man. People are sick to death of such things.

Then these people see an Imperial Space Marine covered head to toe in religious imagery that hearkens to old Christendom, and he's gutting a Daemon Prince that looks like a Balrog of Morgoth for his Emperor, and they like it. The Space Marine is someone who stands for something; he stands for his king, his country, his people, and he's willing to give everything in defense of it all. He fights for a nation that believes in its god with full faith and trust, and they would rather die than see it be subverted by outsiders or daemon-worshipers, or destroyed by alien filth who see mankind as target practice at best or rape-slaves and dinner at worst. These people see that and are inspired by it. Even if the marine is fighting for a lie, even if the guy is just holding back an inevitable doom, the courage and strength in such an image inspires hope for someone in the real world tired of being told that he's a monster for who he is or what he believes. This show of heroism despite inevitable odds isn't what the original authors of 40K wished to impart, but it is what many people get from these stories, even though the OG authors of 40K wouldn't approve.

Because at the end of the day, what did the original authors of 40K believe in when they made the Space Marines as the bad guys for their ''satirical'' work? That Margaret Thatcher sucks? That religion, tradition, and militarism are for fascist buffoons who just go full lock-step with the authorities? That the real answer to all our problems is to hold our hands, sing koombayah, go full secular Communist, and get rid of religion and tradition and go full-in on an atheistic view of science and social progress?

In the schools, that can sound interesting to some dupes. But in the real world? THAT SHIT IS BORING. People want to see things blow up! They want heroes fighting to their last breath against an evil that mortal minds cannot comprehend! They want last stands by brave men who are walking symbols of faith and strength, fighting against evil, degeneracy, corruption, and monsters that lurk from the darkness that come from the great unknown. And 40K gives them that in spades, whether or not it was intended.

This explains why a lot of the Trump-stans chose 40K as their fiction of choice for their memes, and why a lot of people tired of the Left chose 40K as a means of cultural protest against the safe, MCU-style culture of the modern Left-leaning media. I even remember some 40K fans tried to get SW fans to join them when the SW fans got pissed at the Last Jedi, with one fan trying to sell the premise of 40K to SW fans by saying that the series is so dark that ''the Catholic Space Nazis are the good guys''.

You have a similar situation with Watchmen creator Alan Moore, who created Rorshach as a parody of how brutal and violent superheroes can be, but people wound up liking him instead, since he stands for morals and is unwilling to compromise them, even in the face of Armageddon. Alan Moore was disgusted when people came out to see Rorschach as a hero, but any idiot who's spent a day outside of seeing the world from a Leftist lens would have seen the innate appeal of someone who stands for morality in a world that seems to spit on the very concept of decency. Hence why the Watchmen movie portrayed Rorschach as a badass instead of a loony; most fans of the comic love him and what he stands for, despite of, or sometimes, because of the lengths he'll go to uphold his vision of justice.

The same thing happened with Judge Dredd. How many fans of his see him as a bad guy, or an enforcer of a tyrannical regime? Compare that to the number of fans who see him as a badass who dispenses righteous justice against wretches and scum who deserve to be eradicated. Your average Judge Dredd fan sees Dredd and his fellow Judges as the good guys, and even both film adaptations of Dredd portray the Judges as somewhat good, with only a few bad apples in the bunch serving as bad guys now and then. But they were not originally meant to be good guys; the Judges took over the USA and enforce laws on the point of a gun, ripping apart any other government force that could've checked their power.

The people who originally wrote these works laugh at traditional values and make their flawed characters be based upon said values; they were basically Brits who were ass-mad that Thatcher and Reagan were both conservatives who ruled the Anglosphere in the 80s. But they failed to notice how those values are so universal that some people will inevitably be inspired by said flawed characters who stand for truths that people have believed for centuries; that your God and your nation is worth fighting for, and standing up for what's right, even in the face of overwhelming odds, is laudable and heroic.

This is what you'd call a classic case of ''death of the author''. As in, a work takes a life of its own and surpasses what its authors originally intended it to be.

All the more reason to not let trannies utterly obliterate this last gem.
Sad to say this, but GW doesn't care, and 40K is theirs to fuck with. Right now, they're entertaining Space Marine fanboys who veer center-right because they buy minis and books; if that changes and the trannies start flashing some serious cash at GW products, GW will change their tune in less than a day and let the Trannies rewrite the lore upside-down.

Remember what happened with the Primaris Marines. The Imperium from 3rd-7th Edition would've never accepted them. 40K lore is something GW can easily rewrite at will. They already butchered the lore to force you to buy new Space Marine models; they can butcher it some more if someone else is willing to flash enough cash their way.
 
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This is what you'd call a classic case of ''death of the author''. As in, a work takes a life of its own and surpasses what its authors originally intended it to be.
The irony, of course is that lefties LOVE death of the author to justify how 'actually this is about queer liberation theory' for just about everything.

Your take is wordy but broadly correct. One funny thing about modern opinion is that most people agree that the ends don't justify the means. Dredd, Watchmen and 40k hit that line of 'well okay, but what if you amp the stakes up enough?' Is total loss of civil liberties or killing millions of people justified when the alternative is utter obliteration? Similarly, in 40k, you can call the Imperium crazy and oppressive and opposed to the Emperor's vision all you want: but in a world where many other races want to annihilate humanity, and where everything from roid raging at the gym to doing anything wilder than missionary invites daemonic possession.... Are the Astertes and even the Inquisition really unreasonable reactions? So far they work. More or less.

(I have related problems with Ender's Game, but that's almost another topic.)

I've been re-reading some of Donald Westlake's Parker books, which is a series specifically designed to go after the love of the principled bad guy. Sometimes. That the most 'righteous fury' of the books (The Hunter) has been adapted into both a pretty good (Payback) and a legendary-tier (Point Blank) movie should tell you people like the idea.
 
The irony, of course is that lefties LOVE death of the author to justify how 'actually this is about queer liberation theory' for just about everything.
People on both sides of the aisle don't like it when you apply death of the author on a work whose original message they agreed with. Pothead liberal hippies love to apply Death of the Author to something like Lord of the Rings, because they enjoy its fantasy aspects but despise its traditionalist Catholic morality and religious themes. But if you apply it to Warhammer 40K, and they scream about how right-wingers have taken a satire out of the original intention.

Your take is wordy but broadly correct. One funny thing about modern opinion is that most people agree that the ends don't justify the means. Dredd, Watchmen and 40k hit that line of 'well okay, but what if you amp the stakes up enough?' Is total loss of civil liberties or killing millions of people justified when the alternative is utter obliteration? Similarly, in 40k, you can call the Imperium crazy and oppressive and opposed to the Emperor's vision all you want: but in a world where many other races want to annihilate humanity, and where everything from roid raging at the gym to doing anything wilder than missionary invites daemonic possession.... Are the Astertes and even the Inquisition really unreasonable reactions? So far they work. More or less.
The thing is, that's a fan interpretation that's become more popular along the years, whereas the original interpretation of the lore via what the original authors wanted was more narrow-minded and cliche, saying that rejecting tradition, religion, and nationalism is the right thing to do. Current GW doesn't know where to actually sit, since they mooch off the Space Marine fans, some of whom are traditional/religious/nationalist folk, but they also want to stroke the post-modernist boners of the left-wing as well, so they go with the whole ''it's a satire'' bit without actually spelling out what the satire is for. If they admit that the Imperium is the real problem here, then they look like hypocrites for glorfying the Imperium. If the Imperium is not the real problem, then it becomes a justifiable evil.

(I have related problems with Ender's Game, but that's almost another topic.)

I've been re-reading some of Donald Westlake's Parker books, which is a series specifically designed to go after the love of the principled bad guy. Sometimes. That the most 'righteous fury' of the books (The Hunter) has been adapted into both a pretty good (Payback) and a legendary-tier (Point Blank) movie should tell you people like the idea.
Mass Effect 2 had a good take on that idea, with the Illusive Man played by Martin Sheen being a cross between Elon Musk and an IRA leader. Dude wants to do what's best for humanity, be it shaking hands with shady aliens and making ethically dubious deals with them, or capturing said aliens to run lab experiments on them even though they're obviously sapient. The man funds charities, helps rebuild colonies destroyed by hostile alien invaders, innovates new technology, saved the main protagonist's life by spending billions on their reconstruction, but he's done enough icky shit that even the aliens who are willing to be friends with mankind despise his ass and even cite him as a reason why they didn't trust humans in the past.

Then they totally tanked the idea in ME3 because the Illusive Man got hypnotized by alien tech and just became a babbling lunatic by the end. Still, Sheen turns in enough of a performance that you can't help but feel sorry for the guy.
 
Your take is wordy but broadly correct. One funny thing about modern opinion is that most people agree that the ends don't justify the means. Dredd, Watchmen and 40k hit that line of 'well okay, but what if you amp the stakes up enough?' Is total loss of civil liberties or killing millions of people justified when the alternative is utter obliteration? Similarly, in 40k, you can call the Imperium crazy and oppressive and opposed to the Emperor's vision all you want: but in a world where many other races want to annihilate humanity, and where everything from roid raging at the gym to doing anything wilder than missionary invites daemonic possession.... Are the Astertes and even the Inquisition really unreasonable reactions? So far they work. More or less.
That's why "IT'S A SATIRE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE IT GUYS" screeching is amusing. Literally any meaningful reform of the Imperium would absolutely destroy it. Not being fanatically xenophobic isn't an option when you have some alien species literally genetically driven to want to kill you for fun. Giving ANY additional freedoms to citizens would probably result in Chaos winning at warp speed.

The Imperium is perfectly adapted to its environment.
 
That's why "IT'S A SATIRE YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE IT GUYS" screeching is amusing. Literally any meaningful reform of the Imperium would absolutely destroy it. Not being fanatically xenophobic isn't an option when you have some alien species literally genetically driven to want to kill you for fun. Giving ANY additional freedoms to citizens would probably result in Chaos winning at warp speed.

rThe Imperium is perfectly adapted to its environment.
static tendency enjoyer, correct too
you cant really reform the imperium because its the bureaucracy that's the problem, you can change all the laws you want, replace the high lords it will revert
 
I mostly agree with all the said above, but I think that GW doesn't really make satire any more. Their 30k shit is less satire and more tragedy.

Think of a Sojack Abnett pointing at HH and see "LEADERS ARE SHIT! We could have had Awesomesauce Atheist Alliance but Horus DONALD TRUMP Lupercal broke it!" Life sucks! They broke it just like real life Trump broke EVERYTHING REEEE!

Picture of Abnett or Dembski goes here after Trump got elected:
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I can attribute this to GW being smart about it and wanting a bit of space opera in there, look how sad, poor Angron is so deep, etc, or I can try to see it as how Trump and the failiure of "end of history" buckbroke the leftie authors, and their butthurt comes through in this form. "We could have had this Hillary Feminist Utopia, I mean secular Imperium, only if it was not for those dastardly CHUDS and their TRUMP! I mean heretics and Horus!" . Unless you are ADB and then you go "Skinning kids is cool if you don't believe in skydaddies, mlaydeeeh."


GW being greedy in this case, especially with ESG money drying up, actually works for us as long as trannies don't invest into 40k like long time fans. But since they are by nature unlikely to dedicate, we aren't totally boned yet.

It is also just rule of cool like with Dredd or Sith. Sure, Darth Vader is a piece of work, but he is very cool and I sure as hell would rather follow him than Admiral Dangerhair Holdo. Even more if you apply this to less edgy Sith like Darth Marr or Lana Beniko. This isn't even that new of a phenomenon, people love the heck out of Samurai and Ninjas, two group not known for being treehugging friendship fiends. Even Lucas was guilty of this, with Rebel vietcong/Creamy Sheev Nixon and his idea of the Dark side being Force aids, instead of the Kotor Yin/Yang. Which is hilarious since how much his space monks took inspiration from Samurai movies.

Space marines aren't dorky goody two shoes, but they are cool space knights, and the over the top nature lends itself well to this factor. Also "everything I don't like is Fascism" strikes once again, sure the Imperium has some shades of fascism or even communism to very small degrees, but these are vastly overshadowed by its medieval aristocracy and technocratic/bureucratic/theocratic nature.

It wasn't even right wingers who took out the satire. GW noticed that people didn't think too deep on satire and just wanted cool stuff, so as a business they did the right thing for their long term market viability (that used to be a thing, Bud Light) and went with it and changed it themselves.

Justified evil is what exactly the Imperium is. Chaos is written perfectly for that. For every deed the Imperium does, Chaos does 100 times worse. The satire had turned into a story about defying everything, no matter the odds, despite everything. A love letter to the human tenacity in face of extinction.

ME3 was a good example of fucked up by other writers. The reapers also got boned, their motivations becoming some autistic child AI "Hurr durr we kill organics to protect them from building AI to kill them" full retardation reddit deep "thoughts" moment.
 
There's also the fact that the straightforward good vs evil narrative peddled by the pro-Imperium fans sell better than the subversive ''religious/national authorities suck'' message that the OG 40K writers peddled. People tend to want catharsis in their fiction, they want to see the good guys win. This is why Star Wars went for the happy-go-lucky ending in ROTJ instead of going for some dark brooding ending where Luke gets depressed for getting his dad killed and the galaxy goes to shit because the good guys just killed the one man who was holding the whole thing together. Lucas knew the audience needed catharsis.

If you go for the whole leftist view of 40K, there isn't much catharsis, as the Imperium keeps on going, all its problems remain unsolved, that remains the status quo of things, and it's just depressing to see this dystopia continue. Whereas if you go for the heroic view of 40K where the Imperium are the heroes, then it's cathartic to have them win despite all odds, it feels great to see your heroes kill the shit out of bad guys, and that's the kind of thing that sells well. Rick Priestley complained about it in an interview.

"To me the background to 40K was always intended to be ironic. The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they're brutal, but they're also completely self-deceiving. The whole idea of the Emperor is that you don't know whether he's alive or dead. The whole Imperium might be running on superstition. There's no guarantee that the Emperor is anything other than a corpse with a residual mental ability to direct spacecraft. It's got some parallels with religious beliefs and principles, and I think a lot of that got missed and overwritten."

Rick Priestley, Warhammer 40K lore author and creator, in a December 2015 interview with Unplugged Games

But Rick remains willingly blind to the fact that people LIKE having a clear motivation for the heroes. People like having good guys triumph over evil. People like badass heroes who kill the shit out of scary things. He, like many 40K leftist fans, don't understand why many 40K fans prefer to have a clear-cut good guy vs. bad guy motif with the Imperium as the good. They're still stuck in the subversive mentality of the original 40K, not realizing that making 40K the opposite of that, into LOTR in space, is what made it sell well.

Many left-leaning people, who have made subversive ideologies into their new religion, do not understand how their ideology really just sounds boring to the average person who's not a leftist. Constantly whining about how bad nationalism and religion are just gets boring when you do it again and again; that's why the atheist skeptics who used to be a powerful force in the internet during the late 2000s are now in hiding or trying things like Breadtubing or becoming anti-SJW grifters, because people got tired of that subversive atheist bullshit. In the same vein, 40K sells better when portraying the Imperium Bitching about how shit your pastor or politician is because they're traditionalist, religious right-wingers doesn't hold a candle to full-on good-vs-evil action.

If you show two scenes to a kid, one of a worker slowly starving in a factory because his boss is a shithead, and the other, of an armored man gutting a demon with a chainsword, which one would the kid like to see more of? The latter, obviously. And that kids' mentality is still there when it comes to folks wanting to enjoy fiction. They still want to get amazed by things like when they were kids, not lectured at by someone who thinks he knows it all. If people want to get preached at, they'd go to Church. They don't go to their fiction wanting a lesson on how communism views capitalist labor and religious authorities.

The difference between the OG Left-leaning 40K writers and the modern right-leaning 40K crowd is similar to the split between the OG Fallout writers and the Bethesda-era Fallout fans. That being the former is more interested in subversive politics that sees the more religious/traditional power as an evil influence, while the latter wants to see shit blow up and actually likes said religious/traditional power. You see it in the divide between the two; the former fans love whining about how things like American exceptionalism, religion, or nationalism is a corrupting force, the latter fans love factions like the Space Marines and the Enclave because of how cool they look, or how much they believe in America/the God Emperor.

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The OG 40K and Fallout writers would not want you falling in love with the figures depicted above. They'd have you believe them to be irredeemable due to them being the dreaded ''F'' word-fascist. Because of that, these leftist authors see these guys as not worth redeeming or changing; they're only good for being demonized or crushed underfoot. The OG 40K authors got mad that the Imperium was later lionized by fans and other authors, and the original Fallouts had the Enclave be destroyed root and stem, only for the later Fallout games to bring them back as both bad guys (Fallout 3) and good guys, (New Vegas).

The fans, obviously, had a different opinion, seeing the Space Marines as glorious heroes against evil on the same vein as the Paladins of Warcraft, the Protoss of Starcraft, the Spartans of Halo, the Spectres of Mass Effect, and the Jedi of Star Wars. They basically became like the Punisher in Marvel, except mixed with Iron Man, and there's a whole army of them, killing demons, aliens, and God knows what else, and people ate that shit up, turning 40K from an obscure board game into a legitimate contender with sci-fi's big boys, especially as western sci-fi entered a period of decline in the mid 2010s.

In the same vein, the new crop of Fallout fans saw the Enclave as cool but evil in FO2, seeing them as somewhat endearing in FO3, and they loved the fact that FNV allowed you to recruit them, even if it was just a squad. There was this whole culture of loving the Enclave due to them being the last living remnant of the American government, how they're fighting to keep American patriotism and virtues alive in the bombed-out ruins of their former home. Kind of like how Rome fans fanboy over Byzantium. Fallout 3's Enclave Radio, instead of being despised for being a propaganda center for fascists, was loved by the fans due to the patriotic speeches of John Henry Eden and the old American songs that played.

Of course, the old Fallout writers did their best to demonize the Enclave, especially from a Vietnam War hippie perspective, down to the point where America prior to the bombs dropping was a corporate dystopia that performed unethical experiments, they used the Vaults as test labs with the humans inside as guinea pigs, they had the Enclave forces massacre innocents, they tried to genocide most of the people in the wasteland, the Enclave leader in FO2 is just a slimeball who's based on Richard Nixon, and the Enclave was so hated that all traces of them were eradicated after they were blown up.

But the people who hate the Enclave just can't understand that yes, in a game about post-apocalyptic America, people are going to love Americans who are trying to fight for their culture and way of life. I remember some leftist Fallout fans despising the more right-leaning fans who want to see the Enclave succeed in bringing America back, saying that it died for a reason and trying to bring it back makes no sense. But, they're drowned out by the Enclave fanboys among the Fallout community who basically portray the Enclave soldiers as America's space marines.

And given the tastes of the two fanbases, I would not be surprised to see some Enclave fans be Space Marine fans as well.
 
I don't much care about the pro-Imperium narrative. I find it repetitive and unfunny, in the "lulz kek" kind of way that 4chan so adores.
However, I'd much rather keep any leftoid brainlets trying to infect yet another hobby with their "everything's politcal™" hullabaloo away thank you very much.
 
as trannies don't invest into 40k like long time fans
Shouldn't be a problem, what little money they earn goes to hormones, surgeries and trying to take down the kiwifarms. Ain't no way trannies as a demographic will ever have the same level of disposable income as those icky right-wing neckbeards.
The fans, obviously, had a different opinion
I don't know... there's some merit in what you're saying, but there was a very clear and obvious shift from GWs side to paint the Space Marines in a more heroic light and that came largely from a business perspective of them wanting to break into the mainstream and the mainstream finding simple good guys vs bad guys a lot more easy to get then endless shades of grey.
Remember there use to be a time in 40K lore that not worshipping the Emperor was the exception for Space Marines, now it's the exceptions that go literally see the Emperor as a actual god. That wasn't fans that made that switch, it was GW.
 
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