Warhammer 40k

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We are really doing this debate again?

Working on nu dante.

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Dieter Laser said:
Would any of you kind Kiwis help me with an army list?

I’m trying to get some armies for friends for X-mas, and I know there’s a few armies where you can still get 2k points or so for around $500.

I can print the armies for them, but I want them to have a tournament legal army. I’ll just print proxies to double the size of it for them.

Ideally I’d like to use one of the current $160 starter squads as a basis as I can get a good deal on them.

I’d even pay for your time if needed :)
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The wording of your question makes me think that you have seen this video back in 9th and asking this because 10th fucked up all the point values, but that just might be my paranoia so I will post the links anyway

the channel "poorhammer" did a video 9 months ago exactly about making armies bellow 500$


and a more recent one about the general price point for all armies

 
The tired cat said:
They werent any of that, they were just typical Terminator knock offs that wanted to eridicate life, they were pretty much a typical.Saturday morning cartoon level bitch badguy.
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And then they became noble dynasties squabbling for power. Which basically makes them no different from the Lords of Terra, except they have Terminators instead of Space Marines to answer any complaints.
 
TheDarknessGrows said:
Wait that's a thing??
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Yes, and there are so many canonical Chapters out there that one HAS to tickle your fancy. I don't generally like Space Marines but I have a Space Marine army simply because every 40k fan has that one Chapter that speaks to their autism. For me it's the mustache-twirling evil of the Marines Malevolent (and because I like yellow and black). There are also Mongol Marines, Aztec Marines, Zulu Marines, Greek Marines in cool AF armor who love murdering non-Greek Marines, Marines who naturally have Wolverine claws, Marines who are vampires, Marines who think vampires aren't cool enough and have basically degenerated into (heroic?) cannibals. And that's just Loyalist Marines, the Chaos-aligned ones are even weirder.
 
MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
All the better for it because that leftist satire shit was gay.
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That it was. All this whining about how bad religion, aristocracy, and traditional authorities were, and it was just a few decades after Commies in China made Hitler look like a noob by killing 60 million of their own people in their Great Leap Forward.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the OG writers of things like Warhammer 40K, Watchmen, or Fallout were either closet Commies or outright Commies. At the very least they're very Socialist-adjacent, seeing traditional authority and religion as cringe and wanting to get rid of it. The Emperor's opinions on religion is probably the same as the writers of 40K had, thinking that it's more enlightened than religion. Joke's on them; the French Revolution that was inspired by Enlightenment ideas wound up killing far more people than any Inquisition or Crusade ever did.

I suppose having people who aren't leftists ''steal'' those series out from under them was karma. Fallout began to favor gun-toting heroes such as the militaristic Brotherhood of Steel, then you had New Vegas where the options were the Libertarian House/Yes Man, the Neocon NCR, and the Fascist Legion, you had people admiring Rorschach from Watchmen because he's the kind of principled, right-wing loon that Alan Moore hates, and the OG 40K writers are spitting plasma over how 40K fans nowadays love Space Marines even though they designed Space Marines to be detestable brutes working for a fascist regime.
 
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LORD IMPERATOR said:
That it was. All this whining about how bad religion, aristocracy, and traditional authorities were, and it was just a few decades after Commies in China made Hitler look like a noob by killing 60 million of their own people in their Great Leap Forward.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the OG writers of things like Warhammer 40K, Watchmen, or Fallout were either closet Commies or outright Commies. At the very least they're very Socialist-adjacent, seeing traditional authority and religion as cringe and wanting to get rid of it. The Emperor's opinions on religion is probably the same as the writers of 40K had, thinking that it's more enlightened than religion. Joke's on them; the French Revolution that was inspired by Enlightenment ideas wound up killing far more people than any Inquisition or Crusade ever did.
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Making the Emperor your mouthpiece for how bad religion is and then have him genocide a galaxy's worth of intelligent life is like shooting a gun and looking down the barrel when it doesn't fire, especially when you call it the "Great Crusade." It only makes sense from a purely narrative perspective where you have vicious, parasitic Chaos Gods that want strife and struggle in real-space because it keeps them alive, and are personally responsible for the shitty state of the Imperium circa 40K.

It was smart of GW to realize nobody wants to buy a series of books that calls the reader an asshole and to continue knowing it, I want a conquering hero myth, not a metaphor for smashing the patriarchy.
 
MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
Making the Emperor your mouthpiece for how bad religion is and then have him genocide a galaxy's worth of intelligent life is like shooting a gun and looking down the barrel when it doesn't fire, especially when you call it the "Great Crusade."
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It also made no sense to me why their ships already looked like cathedrals and they called their intergalactic war a crusade. At least if the Emperor of Mankind was a Catholic Hapsburg, it would make perfect sense, but he's an atheist edgelord from Anatolia. It makes zero sense to borrow Catholic iconography and terminology when you want to eradicate all religion and base mankind's ideology on reason. No wonder they turned religious the moment the Emperor was interred in the Golden Throne.

Not to mention it was horribly hypocritical of the Emperor to ban religion when he knew that gods existed and that the Warp can be affected by Faith. It would've made more sense to support religions that oppose the emotions that the Chaos gods fed off of, which most modern Earth religions today do, since things like sloth, greed, avarice, betrayal, wrath, and lust are considered sins by most religions. At least that would lead to people worshiping entities that would be diametrically opposed to the Chaos gods, allowing them a greater presence in the Warp and perhaps the creation of GOOD warp entities that would reward things like honor, fidelity, piety, trust, courage, health, mercy, abstinence, and wisdom.

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
It was smart of GW to realize nobody wants to buy a series of books that calls the reader an asshole and to continue knowing it, I want a conquering hero myth, not a metaphor for smashing the patriarchy.
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That's what people go to 40K for nowadays. People want a conquering hero, they don't want to be told about how much religion and the patriarchy sucks. They want to see a Space Marine smash a Daemon in the face with a Thunder Hammer, not watch 24 hours of the average Imperial citizen suffering in a manufactorum because the reader wants to whine about how shit religious zealots are.
 
LORD IMPERATOR said:
It also made no sense to me why their ships already looked like cathedrals and they called their intergalactic war a crusade. At least if the Emperor of Mankind was a Catholic Hapsburg, it would make perfect sense, but he's an atheist edgelord from Anatolia. It makes zero sense to borrow Catholic iconography, terminology, and offices like chaplains when you want to eradicate all religion and base mankind's ideology on reason. No wonder they turned religious the moment the Emperor was interred in the Golden Throne.

Not to mention it was horribly hypocritical of the Emperor to ban religion when he knew that gods existed and that the Warp can be affected by Faith. It would've made more sense to support religions that oppose the emotions that the Chaos gods fed off of, which most modern Earth religions today do, since things like sloth, greed, avarice, betrayal, wrath, and lust are considered sins by most religions. At least that would lead to people worshiping entities that would be diametrically opposed to the Chaos gods, allowing them a greater presence in the Warp and perhaps the creation of GOOD warp entities that would reward things like honor, fidelity, piety, trust, courage, health, abstinence, and wisdom.
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I disagree about Emps' purpose in being staunchly atheist since his entire point was to kill all Chaos Gods by starving them of fuel, not replace them with new puritanical ones. He wanted humanity to be free of deities that dictate life and purpose to mankind and for mankind to carve those things out for itself.
 
MarvinTheParanoidAndroid said:
I disagree about Emps' purpose in being staunchly atheist since his entire point was to kill all Chaos Gods by starving them of fuel, not replace them with new puritanical ones. He wanted humanity to be free of deities that dictate life and purpose to mankind and for mankind to carve those things out for itself.
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And the problem with that is that was bullshit; it goes to show the Emperor, or whoever wrote his character, lacks a fundamental understanding of modern history. If the Emperor just read about any atheist regime on 20th-century Earth, it wound up being a disaster; from the Communist nations that committed atrocities left and right to modern secularist nations in Europe that are in cultural and economic decline. Mankind is a naturally spiritual creature. Saying that they should be free of deities is like saying that one should be free of the need to breathe. Which again, goes to show how stupid the Emperor was, and how 40K's writers were hopelessly naive by making the enlightened ruler want his people to leave religion behind. It's the kind of hippie bullshit you'd expect out of Britain's fart-huffing intelligentsia in the 70s and 80s.
 
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