Warhammer 40k

[ShitLurker]

The couple armies, drip feed, do another army after 3 months, repeat makes sense. But yeah, if the stuff they showed off isn't that had you interested isn't going to be out for a year that would be a buzz kill. They also fucked themselves when they redesigned their website a couple of months ago, it became harder to actually look at pictures of the models and shit. Although what personally killed the game for me was the shitty proprietary dice. Asmodee does that crap constantly, I fucking hate it. I've got d6s, d10s, etc. If I want to paint an army a particular way, and then get some dice that go along with it, I should be able to. Maybe I prefer 12mm dice? Maybe I want casino dice? Maybe I just don't want to keep a separate pile of fucking dice I can't use for anything else? Eventually for choice you'll get some third parties doing legally distinct symbols like for xwing and even MCP but it's still ridiculous.

I honestly think that, though very safe, that dripfeed strategy just ensures the game starts dead, they'll have to do a "1.5" or even early second edition to drum up some excitement once at least 4 factions are out and supported. That may work, but as of now the impression I get is that they are taking it very cautiously. Reminds me of how Old World initially released, once it sold a lot better then expected they put some resources proper into it, but if it had flopped, it would have been a one and done play.

Also, agreed on the models, I've looked through the rulebook (great production value, expensive as fuck though) and see pictures of models that I have not seen on the website, that is a huge fuck up. As for the proprietary dice... lots of games seem to be jumping into that bandwagon, Mantic is doing the same thing with adding Command dice to Kings of War, though at the end of the day, as long as you have different colored dice and a cheat sheet in hand to correlate the result, you can use normal dice, these games are simply not populated enough I think for people to behave like spazes for not using the official dice.

As for the system itself, I haven't gotten into watching battle reports, it's also hard to find something that doesn't feel like an advert, closest I saw was some talk in dakkadakka which made it sound like the usual 1st edition situation, neat ideas and concepts, but you can already abuse X.

I still want to keep it in my radar, but I don't expect it will be worth considering going in till mid 2025 if it even lives that long.

The private gaming club thing doesn't even exist everywhere, and I can't imagine setting one up now(compared to back in the 80s or 90s) with costs and liability for shit being as insane as it is now. You'd also have to try even harder to keep the trannies and shit out, while being discreet about it because the moment they get wind that you didn't let the "woman" who looks like a retired NFL linebacker join, you're going to have a legal nightmare.

It's an incredibly regional thing. I am aware of a few in "my area" though I just stick to the local shop. Most of those tend to be grognards and a lot of them are more historical based. Basically, just due to how they are set up and their interests, it's tranny kryptonite, it does also mean that getting in will require some efforts on your part but that's not a bad thing either. But yes, if your game is basically "club fodder", odds are you are pretty fucked from the getgo since club people will play whatever the hell they want, even if that means Rogue Trader or 3rd edition warhammer or incredibly autistic napoleonic games that take 3 days to play a game. It's not the sort of spaces that would be pursuing fomo.

There are more open clubs as well, but those are also more focused on TRPGs and baordgames and hence a lot more likely to get trannied up and at that point they aren't much more different than going to a store.

 

[HTTP Error 404]

Granted, I've not built a space marine in a decade or more, and I come from this.

Hey those look familiar.

God bless the internet.

They already humiliated themselves on their discord and so-on. Dont remember exactly what had happened but they will have pretty bog standard corporate policy in that regard and it will be effecting the writing.

Some shit tier lefty "indie" magazine in the UK offered to let Trench Crusade crash on their discord couch.

So they did.

Then when people started noticing Trench Crusade on twitter and they weren't the right kind of people -- they weren't various flavors of degenerates or communists -- the people running the discord had a freakout and did a mass purge of everyone they could ID as being someone evil.

Afterwards the Trench Crusade guys said something very diplomatic -- "if they banned you we trust their judgement" or somesuch -- but then removed the discord link from their website. They then created their own discord.

Said discord has your bog standard "don't be a dick and here's the performative you must kiss the lefty ring" rules but I haven't heard much about it since then.

The community made their own discord as well as an alternative and I think it's more popular than the official one, but honestly the entire thing soured me on it.

I do like the setting in theory -- some crusaders betrayed the church and opened a literal gateway to hell, and the resulting literal holy war has lasted 400 years and is now reaching the WW1 era -- and will probably pick up the kickstarter.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Trouble is, their idea of a starter set doesn't include dice, data sheets, or even a basic rules pamphlet because they want to rely on the stupid phone app. Not even GW does that for the stuff they label as "starters"(nor any other company with someone sensible running the show).

Well that's stupid. It should be so simple. Dice. Rules fit on a single bit of A4, and army list likely the same. Minis I assume are single piece if they're just 3D prints. Done. How are they fucking this up so bad?

The problem that I see with OPR is that the players are more interested in bitching about GW than actually playing the damn thing.

To be fair, this is true of 40k as well. It's part of the reason I quit years ago. But at least I can find people to not play with. The same can't be said with OPR.

The Infinity people seemed to just dump a couple of factions and are now slow dripping releases, so though I like some of the stuff from it, none of it is actually out yet nor does it have a date. That N5 has come out shortly after Warcrow released probably killed any amount of momentum it was getting.

Bolt action released a new edition, I've always been curious for an excuse to collect a WWII army, and I do think there are Bolt Action players around though I get the impression they are more game club gremlins than anything.

I always loved the art style of Infinity, but again, no players.

What's game club gremlins?

Basically, just due to how they are set up and their interests, it's tranny kryptonite, it does also mean that getting in will require some efforts on your part but that's not a bad thing either.

I had the opposite experience. The "local" board game club and RPG club are the only places I've seen trannies irl. Though they could have been unfortunate looking women (nerds tend to not be attractive). There was also a wargame club that opened recently that had a bunch of LGBT nonsense on it's website.

 

[ShitLurker]

Hey those look familiar.

God bless the internet.

Hot diggidy now that's vintage!

Some shit tier lefty "indie" magazine in the UK offered to let Trench Crusade crash on their discord couch.

So they did.

Then when people started noticing Trench Crusade on twitter and they weren't the right kind of people -- they weren't various flavors of degenerates or communists -- the people running the discord had a freakout and did a mass purge of everyone they could ID as being someone evil.

Afterwards the Trench Crusade guys said something very diplomatic -- "if they banned you we trust their judgement" or somesuch -- but then removed the discord link from their website. They then created their own discord.

Said discord has your bog standard "don't be a dick and here's the performative you must kiss the lefty ring" rules but I haven't heard much about it since then.

The community made their own discord as well as an alternative and I think it's more popular than the official one, but honestly the entire thing soured me on it.

I do like the setting in theory -- some crusaders betrayed the church and opened a literal gateway to hell, and the resulting literal holy war has lasted 400 years and is now reaching the WW1 era -- and will probably pick up the kickstarter.

Wasn't aware of this part of the story of them "cleaning up their act". Might have a peek in the discord then, though I don't think I'll participate in the kickstarter. I already have enough models in the queue to add more.

Well that's stupid. It should be so simple. Dice. Rules fit on a single bit of A4, and army list likely the same. Minis I assume are single piece if they're just 3D prints. Done. How are they fucking this up so bad?

Agreed, any sort of starter set should be as simple as humanly possible even if it means playing a gutted version of the full game. You need a pitch that can get two randos without direction engaged and having to read a 40 page rulebook is the last way to do it.

To be fair, this is true of 40k as well. It's part of the reason I quit years ago. But at least I can find people to not play with. The same can't be said with OPR.

Fair, but it's sad since the whole point of OPR is to use your models in another system yet it's like they never moved on. Yes, GW are money grubbing cunts, this has been a fact for multiple decades, use your cool models to play the system you are supposedly championing and have fun with it! You don't see this sort of shit with other rulesets. OPR "players" stake too much of their identity in NOT being GW players instead of just being OPR players.

But fair enough on the "no players". At that point you are kind of forced to evangelize for the game and try and get a few close mates to give it a go.

I always loved the art style of Infinity, but again, no players.

What's game club gremlins?

Basically people that only play in their club. Historicals do this a lot, so you don't see them playing in game stores as much as in their clubs or venues. So you may think the game is a non entity only to find out later that it's very active in a specific area. But then, it's not exactly easy to find.

I had the opposite experience. The "local" board game club and RPG club are the only places I've seen trannies irl. Though they could have been unfortunate looking women (nerds tend to not be attractive). There was also a wargame club that opened recently that had a bunch of LGBT nonsense on it's website.

Well, I did mention that in the rest of my reply. A wargame club is a very different beast to a "anything nerdy" club. I've seen some hardcore as fuck historical associations, those things are absolutely hermetic and you aren't getting any sort of acceptance in there with a tranny colored Abrams tank. They also tend to stick mostly to pure historical and reenactments. Since they are so focused on history and real world violence, it scares the women and faggots out and only keeps the grognards. Of course, that has a bucket list of issues mind you since they are not the most approachable bunch, though if you do share interest and games, you will have people to hang out and play for the rest of your life in there.

The "game clubs" where there is TRPG and board games are pozzland though. TRPG tends to attract women and crazies a lot more, same deal with board games and the moment women want to hang out with your activities, closing ranks suddenly becomes a shit ton harder "because you don't want to be mean" and the soy men want to be liked by the women (and it's all soy in there) so it's open season for trannies and beyond to come in to shit the place.

 

[p1138]

Well that's stupid. It should be so simple. Dice. Rules fit on a single bit of A4, and army list likely the same. Minis I assume are single piece if they're just 3D prints. Done. How are they fucking this up so bad?

Nah, they went back to plastic kits, but just forgot what the fuck actually belongs in a starter package, you know so someone can actually start playing the game. They handed out a bunch of free copies to random small youtube channels and let them post videos about it, although none of them seem to be playing it and the comments all basically eviscerate the company for including absolutely nothing in the package. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62eUTtufP4Q
It doesn't even include a basic 4 page pamphlet or describe on the box what the damned game even is, or any kind of lore whatsoever. I saw another video titled "Warmachine 2 player starter rules" and it's just the guy going over the unit cards from the app with no explanation or context for anything. Some channels with some new games will at least put together a demo game to show it off, like a small batrep. But after almost a week basically nothing for this release. It's just an incredibly weird way to shit up the re-release of a product.

Meanwhile, Dropfleet Commander 2.0 "pre-release" starter boxes went out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya9oSZ0-Uho
Includes the shit to play, has a rules booklet that's about 60 pages with the first 18 or so being lore and there's channels that have posted demo game batreps already so someone could actually see how the game might be played. Fleet battle miniature games are even more niche, but at least this company looks like they know wtf they're doing and the game stands a chance.

Mantic is doing the same thing with adding Command dice to Kings of War, though at the end of the day, as long as you have different colored dice and a cheat sheet in hand to correlate the result, you can use normal dice, these games are simply not populated enough I think for people to behave like spazes for not using the official dice.

That's true, but then it means you're also now comparing the result to a table, and then having to play the add up the symbols game so it's just another step to slow things down further. It's not like these games require dozens of dice so I just don't get the want for companies to do the proprietary dice thing unless there really is that much margin on it. The other possibility that has crossed my mind, is some people(mostly in the ttrpg space, especially D&D 5e players) seem incredibly averse to basic single digit addition and subtraction and using the symbols obfuscates it enough for them?

 

[daniel day]

Lol people running defense for a billion dollar company that has inferior build quality to some random Chinese factory. Midwinter is a ponce but 4 weeks to ship an in stock plastic item in the UK is bonkers

Gw needs to sack up and embrace print on demand for models. High end additive manufacturing contractors are cheaper faster and much higher quality than the dogshit they spew out especially for forgeworld (rest in piss resin and fine cast)

Nearly bought a titan but i'd need to have Chinese quick turn manufacturers re do the entire thing since it's so poor quality and takes months to be in stock at Gw, do they do productions runs in someone's garage or something?

No, they're trying to disincentivize repeated purchases of forge world. The way I see them working is they're trying to sell as much stock as possible until they run out, then print on-demand, make the process take forever so its already unattractive for consumers so they can quietly get rid of Forge World altogether. It already happened in AOS. The biggest lie a corpo has ever gotten away with is convincing the public that they're stupid incompetents.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

I do like the setting in theory -- some crusaders betrayed the church and opened a literal gateway to hell, and the resulting literal holy war has lasted 400 years and is now reaching the WW1 era -- and will probably pick up the kickstarter.

I backed it for the same reason and I'm seeing some warning signs already.

* They're not producing plastic minis because those are "too expensive and hard" (to paraphrase their words), and they want to get them out to people as quickly as possible. They're doing 3D printed resin instead, and they decided to partner with Only-Games.co, which is apparently notorious for poor quality prints, excessively delayed shipments that frequently contain broken/wrong items, and terrible customer service. They claim that their test prints all turned out great and they're not worried, but as I see it, this is what happened: Only-Games smelled a chance to rake in a lot of cash if they could string the TC people along, so they were double-extra-sure to make these test prints really well and ship them on time, but when they've got over 6,000 orders to fulfill at once, they're probably going to revert to form and take forever to send out a bunch of wrong, shit-quality orders.

* Whoever is writing their project updates is making frequent misspellings and grammatical errors, like multiple typos in one sentence levels. It's sloppy and unprofessional and doesn't make them look good.

* For their $1 million stretch goal, they decided to add on an entire narrative campaign that was supposed to be the centerpiece of another Kickstarter later on, meaning they've just piled a ton of extra work onto what they've already got on their plates. To their credit, they acknowledge this, but in their shoes I'd have just stuck to the plan and used the extra money to polish up this campaign.

* They're still tied closely to that 28 magazine, meaning that if the troon brigade running it starts throwing a fit about chuds getting into the game or whatever, they're going to have to deal with more backlash.

I'm going to keep my pledge for now, but frankly I won't be surprised if the whole thing implodes at some point.

 

[Metamorpho]

If you don't buy officially branded product, then you are poor!
View attachment 6583567
Context

No doubt he is the type to get mad at the fact that most Warhammer fans like the video games or books and not the actual tabletop game.

Crosspost from the Consoomer thread.

 

[bort420]

No, they're trying to disincentivize repeated purchases of forge world. The way I see them working is they're trying to sell as much stock as possible until they run out, then print on-demand, make the process take forever so its already unattractive for consumers so they can quietly get rid of Forge World altogether. It already happened in AOS. The biggest lie a corpo has ever gotten away with is convincing the public that they're stupid incompetents.

They should get rid of forge world as a concept i.e. a separate entity that makes models and just fold it all into GW proper. FW exists purely because there was a market for small run big models back in the 90s, but has no reason to exist as a separate entity today especially now with small-run injection molding being completely reasonable to do by even dumbasses like me.

FW can eat shit for wasting their license the sooner they die the better. GW is sure as shit not going to stop making profitable models given the $$$ involved and they can do the limited runs in house without being shackled to w/e the FW shitshow was.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

Crosspost from the Consoomer thread.

The funny thing about kill team is if you've been playing your chosen faction long enough you probably have enough bits lying around to kit bash the box you want.

 

[p1138]

They should get rid of forge world as a concept i.e. a separate entity that makes models and just fold it all into GW proper. FW exists purely because there was a market for small run big models back in the 90s, but has no reason to exist as a separate entity today especially now with small-run injection molding being completely reasonable to do by even dumbasses like me.

FW can eat shit for wasting their license the sooner they die the better. GW is sure as shit not going to stop making profitable models given the $$$ involved and they can do the limited runs in house without being shackled to w/e the FW shitshow was.

They did, and still keep it separate because it's their "15+ resin" stuff all on the one warhammer web store now. They don't sell it at retail(other than warhammer world and the couple of cafes), the models usually don't get rules updates worth a crap, and with rare exceptions(like half of the custodes army being FW) are generally awful on the table. They've actually been phasing it out leaving only the biggest of bullshit models with just about every codex release, but every time that happens someone somewhere is crying about minis they never bought going to legends(they've also been getting rid of finecast this way as well).

But then GW keeps releasing necromunda, blood bowl, and horus heresy FW models. There's 7 or 8 from the past month alone still in their "new" listings on the site.

 

[ShitLurker]

That's true, but then it means you're also now comparing the result to a table, and then having to play the add up the symbols game so it's just another step to slow things down further. It's not like these games require dozens of dice so I just don't get the want for companies to do the proprietary dice thing unless there really is that much margin on it. The other possibility that has crossed my mind, is some people(mostly in the ttrpg space, especially D&D 5e players) seem incredibly averse to basic single digit addition and subtraction and using the symbols obfuscates it enough for them?

I just assume it's a cash grab. Propietary dice are always on the expensive side for being "a necessity". From a mechanics standpoint it just swaps a stat number to a type of dice, different but the same. So I don't see that much merit to them. You can throw a d20 with a crit chance of 19 or throw the propietary dice with "standard crit chance" they both kind of amount to the same to a degree.

As for looking at the chart, it's a hassle the first few times but once you have played a few times it will flow (played Malifaux with a standard poker deck for a while and 0 issues). The bigger problem is getting your opponent on board though and you better be clear/consistent with what dice you use to represent something.

Nah, they went back to plastic kits, but just forgot what the fuck actually belongs in a starter package, you know so someone can actually start playing the game.

I swear Warmachine since MK3 forward is operated by mouth breathing retards. How the hell they managed to be so good during first and second edition is baffling seeing how they don't even do basic shit well.

They're not producing plastic minis because those are "too expensive and hard" (to paraphrase their words), and they want to get them out to people as quickly as possible. They're doing 3D printed resin instead, and they decided to partner with Only-Games.co, which is apparently notorious for poor quality prints, excessively delayed shipments that frequently contain broken/wrong items, and terrible customer service.

Not producing plastic is fine, affordable plastic translates to "get them done in China" with all the crap that entails. But then tbe printing company you mention and their sordid history... sounds like a scam waiting to happen.

Whoever is writing their project updates is making frequent misspellings and grammatical errors, like multiple typos in one sentence levels. It's sloppy and unprofessional and doesn't make them look good.

This shows me it's literally 2-3 guys that know dick about marketing.

For their $1 million stretch goal, they decided to add on an entire narrative campaign that was supposed to be the centerpiece of another Kickstarter later on, meaning they've just piled a ton of extra work onto what they've already got on their plates. To their credit, they acknowledge this, but in their shoes I'd have just stuck to the plan and used the extra money to polish up this campaign.

Oof. The bane of every kickstarter. Doing more than your initial goal and specially something different to what the main campaign is. At least they aren't promising plushies or other retarded shit, but that campaign book will bite them in the ass.

They're still tied closely to that 28 magazine, meaning that if the troon brigade running it starts throwing a fit about chuds getting into the game or whatever, they're going to have to deal with more backlash.

Another reason to be weary...

 

[p1138]

I just assume it's a cash grab. Propietary dice are always on the expensive side for being "a necessity". From a mechanics standpoint it just swaps a stat number to a type of dice, different but the same. So I don't see that much merit to them. You can throw a d20 with a crit chance of 19 or throw the propietary dice with "standard crit chance" they both kind of amount to the same to a degree.

As for looking at the chart, it's a hassle the first few times but once you have played a few times it will flow (played Malifaux with a standard poker deck for a while and 0 issues). The bigger problem is getting your opponent on board though and you better be clear/consistent with what dice you use to represent something.

Oh it probably is a cash grab, it just seems like a weirdly minor one. And yeah, I could use a chart but then as you said then the opponent needs a chart even if I get used to the conversion in my head, it's just not worth it. This is why when people bitch about WYSIWYG being a problem it's silly, because again two player game, and they don't account for the opponent mixing shit up(like why is this unit armed with only rifles now swinging axes in melee type thing).

I swear Warmachine since MK3 forward is operated by mouth breathing retards. How the hell they managed to be so good during first and second edition is baffling seeing how they don't even do basic shit well.

Matt Wilson has been running things the entire time, but he got his head so far up his own ass during MK2(when GW was doing poorly) that he thought he could dictate how distributors and retailers handled shit, wouldn't ship their forge world equivalent(I forget wtf it was called, black something? but it was their resin colossals and gargantuans and shit, and limited run minis), had a play test department run by a bunch of incompetents just waiting for big tournament results to just immediately issue nerfs, ignored factions for years at a time, fucked up their office lease and eventually got forcibly moved when the government claimed eminent domain(was a freeway or bus terminal or some shit they wanted to build), didn't move to a cheaper area, didn't check zoning for manufacturing, had a tranny running their social media for a couple years, had a play test lead admit he hadn't played the game in years, decided they would kickstart shit they shouldn't have needed to(just doing limited runs and preorders would have made more sense), re-released their monpoc crap after it failed as a blind box gacha game, thought they could copy Corvus Belli's aristeia with their riot quest shit, didn't get their warmachine definitely not 40k scifi thing into retail till it was already dead, released MK4 and basically threw everyone's army into the trash as somewhat playable squatted legends to be replaced later, kept mixing up the factions in an attempt to get more cross faction sales among existing customers(they actually started this in mk3) hoping people would buy a whole new army on a whim, switched to 3d printing because they had lost molds(there was a 20' freight container found at one point that had masters and all kinds of product in it that they had abandoned but someone sold off on ebay, they probably really lost it via auction for non payment of storage or whatever), lost a bunch of staff who ran off to make rivenstone(and then shit that up not delivering product so that was recently bought by another company, weird pattern there), shipped resin 3d prints that weren't fully cured to customers(among many other quality control issues, although they had done that a couple times during mk3 as well with the poured resin minis), thought they could get back into writing D&D adventures again and that went nowhere. And I know I'm forgetting shit. This is just what I could remember off the top of my head in a couple of minutes.

Yes, I hate the rainbow vomit infested mess that community turned into, and how the game itself was driven into the dirt.

Oof. The bane of every kickstarter. Doing more than your initial goal and specially something different to what the main campaign is. At least they aren't promising plushies or other retarded shit, but that campaign book will bite them in the ass.

At least in the update they acknowledge that they aren't going to try and do the campaign book as part of the initial launch and that it's going to be its own project to focus on after the kickstarter and that should be fine. The rest of their stretch goals, a mini for that 28 magazine shit, and some accessory sprues should not be a big deal withy everything else being some illustrations and stories. They didn't fall down the normal KS rabbit hole for miniatures of promising 8 waves of expansions of entire armies worth of minis at a time, 3 narrative campaigns, an ttrpg system, etc.

But then tbe printing company you mention and their sordid history... sounds like a scam waiting to happen.

That's the real problem. Backer #5,618's stuff needs to show up in as good of condition as backer #251's stuff, all the while being able to keep production going for new customers after the kickstarter ends(even ignoring needing a retail presence, companies fuck this up on KS as well, tons of shit on KS that wound up being limited runs for no reason, and I don't mean mini game stuff either) rather than just immediately running out of cash and washing their hands of it once everything regarding the kickstarter itself is done.

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

At least in the update they acknowledge that they aren't going to try and do the campaign book as part of the initial launch and that it's going to be its own project to focus on after the kickstarter and that should be fine. The rest of their stretch goals, a mini for that 28 magazine shit, and some accessory sprues should not be a big deal withy everything else being some illustrations and stories. They didn't fall down the normal KS rabbit hole for miniatures of promising 8 waves of expansions of entire armies worth of minis at a time, 3 narrative campaigns, an ttrpg system, etc.

Yeah, leaving aside the new campaign, their stretch goals are probably the least worrying part of the project. Extra art and fluff is fine by me and the accessory sprues are a good idea. Even the crossover mini looks cool enough for me to want one. They also said they're going to sit down and think really hard about the future of the game now that they have all this money, which sounds like a smart move. I'm still seeing a lot of potential points of failure, but at least they're trying to consider the long term and not just focusing on the immediate influx of cash.

 

[GoodWinSon]

Trench Crusade wastes its premise in my view. It's prime wacky althist material but what they went with is edgy WW1 armies + crusaders + demons. Unless I'm mistaken, the only interesting deviation is that the Aztecs are still around.

 

[PHILLIP BANKS]

In partially related news. Trench Crusade's Kickstarter has launched today, and already seems well onto a million in donations. View attachment 6579826
Now will this actually amount to a actual competitor to 40k, or just become little more than an excuse for troon ass pats, I have no clue

 

[Guntkvd]

Trench Crusade wastes its premise in my view. It's prime wacky althist material but what they went with is edgy WW1 armies + crusaders + demons. Unless I'm mistaken, the only interesting deviation is that the Aztecs are still around.

I tried reading the lore, it's tryhard shit.

 

[The tired cat]

I tried reading the lore, it's tryhard shit.

So, like we talking super religious tryhard stuff or Garth Ennis levels of tryhard?

 

[Guntkvd]

So, like we talking super religious tryhard stuff or Garth Ennis levels of tryhard?

Just one example, how crusaders are made. You need to take an oath that will send you to hell if you don't die in battle, you're brainwashed straight through your optical nerve and with drugs. But because drugs fuck you up, they need to replace your lungs so you can only breathe special holy gas and give you vox to speak. Your body engrained with golder tattoos in and out, flesh, bones, all covered in magic tattoos. Then you're drugged again. Also, there's a magical metal that makes guns obsolete to justify melee combat.
At what point you stop adding on more crap before it becomes grimderp?

 

[p1138]

Just one example, how crusaders are made. You need to take an oath that will send you to hell if you don't die in battle, you're brainwashed straight through your optical nerve and with drugs. But because drugs fuck you up, they need to replace your lungs so you can only breathe special holy gas and give you vox to speak. Your body engrained with golder tattoos in and out, flesh, bones, all covered in magic tattoos. Then you're drugged again. Also, there's a magical metal that makes guns obsolete to justify melee combat.
At what point you stop adding on more crap before it becomes grimderp?

That sounds pretty grimderp. Although... guns and bullets are metal so can't they just use the magic metal in the guns to make them effective? And if they've got some magic metal super armor that can stop bullets, why wouldn't it also stop melee weapons?