Warhammer 40k

[Spilled Spaghett]

I remember Talk Tabletop doing an episode on how you shouldn't talk politics at the table. People are there to have fun, and it always leads to a slippery slope that results in groups falling apart.

Goobertown was in the comments ranting about how playing games with nazis is bad and blah blah blah. Basically a huge over reaction to such a milquetoast opinion.

This is the problem with "no politics". Everyone has a different idea of what's political. Pride flags are objectively political because it's a symbol for a political movement to promote change. But you try to tell anyone you don't want to talk about trannies or gay representation and it becomes a hate crime. If female space marines comes up it's not political to say they should be, it is political if you say they can't be. It's not bad advice, but I feel like any group that is going to fall apart for these irreconcilable differences are doomed to do so anyways for one reason or another. A normal person can agree to disagree. Retards are always going to purity test the people they associate with.

Apparently being a retard and leaving your troops standing in the open with their asses in the wind to just get shot at in a game with guns is being a "casual player". The argument about balance updates happening too fast for someone who only plays a game every 1-2 years I can understand(to a point, at some point just accept you don't actually play the fucking game maybe?) but bitching about people using terrain and not wanting to do so yourself has nothing to do with that.

I kind of agree with the sentiment about casual play. I think it's less about not wanting to use terrain, but more that terrain rules suck and are boring. When it comes to how we build tables ruins are king because really it's the only thing that provides cover. The best form of cover is the kind that stops you from being shot in the first place. It's perfect, you don't roll to save, all damage is reduced to 0. Even if you have benefit of cover from say a statue or a cargo container, you're at the mercy of chance with only a +1 to help you. This means that if you aren't blocking line of sight you may as well stand in the open for all the good it'll do you. Ruins are rules that stop gameplay from happening, and that's why all players find it frustrating.

Tables are an approximation of a battlefield. No one is building a table that is completely covered in scatter terrain, bits of rocks and hills that in an actual battle would provide sufficient cover. Even chest high walls that my infantry could hunker down behind and completely block line of sight provides the same cover as if only his pinky toe were behind an ammo crate. You don't want to encourage people to deploy on the line and run out into the open, but the current state of 40k I think discourages people making risky plays since the penalty for failure is so dramatic. We need some form of cover between ruins so we have more options. I know that's called scatter terrain, but there's a reason no one uses scatter terrain. We need some form of hard cover that allows a unit to be shot, but provide something better than an easily negated +1 save. Maybe hard cover can also provide a 5+ Invuln or something, I don't know.

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

Anyway I’m big on terrain. Like let it tell as much as story as the battle you’re playing it out on. One of the things I do for Into the Dark terrain is add fun little things like piles of bodies or demonic altars or just piles of tools and discarded weapons laying around. Something to breathe a bit more life into an already great terrain set that makes you feel like you’re exploring an abandoned hulk a bit more.

A friend of mine's a blacksmith so he let me make a bunch of molds for random piles of scrap last week so I have a bunch of nice steel stuff.
An exchange I fixed the power issue you think a blacksmith would know how to do a bit of electrical but now he's afraid of getting electrocuted which is odd because he messed around with hot metal all day.

But he let me make a bunch of cool little terrain models out of Steel scrap.

"one of the most ludicrous games of warhammer 40k you've ever seen!" and its 6 models on a pretty bare table.

Yeah Warhound Titans should be one of the strongest things on the tabletop that's one thing I'll agree with midwinnow homosexual.
But if we're going by what the actual fluff says custodians and Harlequin should basically be unbeatable.
You know you could always I know it's hard for anybody to wrap their head around write your own sets of rule

 

[p1138]

I kind of agree with the sentiment about casual play. I think it's less about not wanting to use terrain, but more that terrain rules suck and are boring. When it comes to how we build tables ruins are king because really it's the only thing that provides cover. The best form of cover is the kind that stops you from being shot in the first place. It's perfect, you don't roll to save, all damage is reduced to 0. Even if you have benefit of cover from say a statue or a cargo container, you're at the mercy of chance with only a +1 to help you. This means that if you aren't blocking line of sight you may as well stand in the open for all the good it'll do you. Ruins are rules that stop gameplay from happening, and that's why all players find it frustrating.

There's a difference between being a casual player who doesn't know the difference in terrain rules between a barrel, and ruins. And a moron insisting that no one would ever use cover or concealment. If you're just treating terrain as a line of sight blocking piece so a shooting army isn't just firing clear across the board to take everything out, that isn't being a hardcore meta player or whatever either.

It's about using some sense.

 

[Judge Dredd]

nightlords omnibus

I've heard about the Nightlords trilogy being cool but I have no idea what it's about or why it's considered so good.

The only 40k book I've really read was a collection of short stories. Let The Galaxy Burn from 2006. I remember a few stories from the collection. The first one where some marines with a "never retreat" doctrine keep being ordered to fall back. One with a Leman Russ Vanquisher I believe? (It's the one with the twin auto cannons) And one featuring an assassin who executes some bureaucrat that read the wrong file. There was also some crap in there is well. One author (I forget which) didn't seem to understand scale and just ridiculous numbers of guys in a way I didn't buy at the time. That was all the way in 2006 however. I still have the book right here. The glue has dried so it's a little brittle, and the pages have yellowed around the edges, but it has that old book smell now.

One thing I also remember in the inclusion of minor xenos races. I think it was guard was fighting some alien faction that was limited to a single world and wasn't something that exists in 40k proper as models or an official faction. They were just natives that were technologically advanced enough to put up a fight.


I wouldn't mind giving the HH books a shot, but it's finding the time to read them.

I just realised. For all the greedy corpos trying to make things a "lifestyle brand", I think GW is likely the only one where you could dedicate all or most of your spare time (or even professional life) consuming nothing but Warhammer content. Between painting, playing the games, and books, there's a lot there.

For all the claims of how Battletech dwarfs 40k in terms of books, I doubt that's the case these days. There are 64 HH novels according to google, and "over 100" Battletech books. But that doesn't count other Black Library stuff.

Edit: I'm curious if anyone here likes a specific faction or unit because of a story?

It's not bad advice, but I feel like any group that is going to fall apart for these irreconcilable differences are doomed to do so anyways for one reason or another. A normal person can agree to disagree. Retards are always going to purity test the people they associate with.

Agreed. Which is why I think he advocates for clamping down on all of it. Those who refuse should be kicked because, at best, they'll alienate everyone not in the cult. At least kicking them out early removes that one guy.

 

[rexas texas_]

For all the claims of how Battletech dwarfs 40k in terms of books, I doubt that's the case these days. There are 64 HH novels according to google, and "over 100" Battletech books. But that doesn't count other Black Library stuff.

I can actually pull out some +/- numbers, because I did a spreadsheet of (almost) all WH books, and 40k itself stands at around 403 novels, more than 761 shorts and around 90 audiodramas, while 30k (HH, The Primarchs, SOT) is 98 books, 103 shorts and 67 dramas.

Battletech is a big stinky baby compared to WH when it comes to book stuff.

 

[p1138]

I can actually pull out some +/- numbers, because I did a spreadsheet of (almost) all WH books, and 40k itself stands at around 403 novels, more than 761 shorts and around 90 audiodramas, while 30k (HH, The Primarchs, SOT) is 98 books, 103 shorts and 67 dramas.

Battletech is a big stinky baby compared to WH when it comes to book stuff.

At this point GW usually manages to crap out a new book every what, 2-3 weeks or so? Just looking at black library warcom saturday preorder articles, they've released an AoS book and that Lucius book so far in March alone plus a preview of a new Farsight novel yesterday. On top of that they've got their adepticon preview coming up on Wednesday and their preview shows always mention a book or two. Meanwhile for 2025 battletech has had two? One of which was a romance novel based on a previous april fools joke.

The battletech franchise getting novels pumped out came to a halt in around 2008 or so, and that's probably also around the last time they had more books that GW, then had nothing for 5 years and have been slowly releasing more books since. Whether or not those recent books in the past decade have been any good I couldn't tell you, but it's not like black library has been releasing quality writing all of the time either.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

I've heard about the Nightlords trilogy being cool but I have no idea what it's about or why it's considered so good.

What made the Night Lords trilogy stand out is that it focused on what could be called the average Chaos Space Marine warband. The Tenth Company of the Night Lords is a shadow of whatever glory it once had. Low on ammo and supplies. Its warriors plotting against each other in petty rivalries, suffering curses from the Gods or the legacy of their Primarch.

These Night Lords aren’t maniacal devotees to Chaos or terrifying military generals. They are survivors. And the trilogy is the story of them trying to survive in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium.

 

[Snowflake Flamer]

I wanted to leave a few thoughts here as I've recently found myself on an oldhammer kick again. (As an aside I really love Miniscape Miniatures, the oldhammer community manages to be the least gay and retarded of the community rit large) Also this is a throwaway alt, like every acct I ahve on here so don't put too much stock into all this.

Spoiler: Controversial Opinions on when Warhammer 40k Peaked

Firstly, Warhammer 40k as a game system, aesthetic, and anything else died during the transition to 8th. Sure 7th was fucking cancer, but once GeeDubz inevitably cucks to zog and troons and gives you transmaris we'll all look back at 8th+ as the marvelified disney goyslop it was. Just because you bought 10s of thousands of dollars of models won't change GW's ways, they cucked on the story advancement (this is what the SJWs were complaining about back in the day on oldhead forums like dakkadakka), they'll cuck you an amazog tie in.

Dawn of War 1 was when the franchise realistically peaked artistically, and 3rd-5th edition are when it peaked mechanically. GW should've bit the bullet and given the guard tanks soviet cast armor but they were too afraid to do the full historicals meme (thankfully we now have warlord games).

A lot can be said about politics in games or whatever but if your really interested in "space racism" as tabletop, just drop the space and play bolt action, its like smoother 3rd ed with actual Nazis to keep the troons out.

For those who missed out on oldhammer you can pirate the models via scetchy russian telegram scan channels and the books are either cheap or piratable. Or proxy your modern shit. I am personally currently painting a chaos dreadnought I got as an adolescent, sold and then later encountered a kitscan for and 3d printed.

Spoiler: Der Ervige Goonertown Hobbies Question

Also, concerning the Goobertown hobbies question. 1. I personally dislike that he did one of my favorite models (dark vengeance ravenwing) in poopdick regelia. 2. He does not look like a rapist, chomo, or troon as key luminaries here have suggested. He looks like a gay raped goycattle slave who seeks to actualize the agency he lost in being raped by perpetuating the cycle of rape. So somehow even worse than a regular serial killer buffalo bill tranny.

Simply gaze into the perpetual near crying fear his eyes emit into the camera, he projects fear and embarrassment about his own existence to his viewer, his smile and eyebrows purely conciliatory, like he told a shitty joke about your dead mother and his hoping not to get socked in the mouth. His teeth also look off to me, but I don't know in what way exactly.



I remember when warhammer on youtube was just rips of video game osts and cutscenes, for the most part warhammer and hobby youtube is pure assfaggot aidscancer and I hope the new Gundam tabletop game kills GW so people like Goobertown get replaced by the wargaming equivalent to Digibro to further humiliate him on levels not previously fathomed. One only worries about the horrors lurking in that omnigooners discord server.

Edit: Goobertown should consider using this as an inspiration for a pride month nurgle army, just a thought!

If historical wargames, which are dominated by WW2. the ACW, and Napoleonics dominated like they once did my beloved hobby would not be infested with so many gay retarded rape slave tranny faggots. But alas, we must deal with the hand we are dealt.

 

[Mr Clark]

@Judge Dredd

On the 'what faction did you get into due to a book?' point, straight up Drukhari from that Lelith book. Got a bunch of boxes (cheap) sitting in my garage to work on because of that book. It genuinely explained the society and how it works in ~200 pages about 1 persons adventure. The thirst, covens, drukhari death, psychically blunt, raids, wyches, cults, mafia-esque society, yvraine vs thirst. Just a bunch of things that i didnt really understand until that book and they all go to explaining why Drukhari are the way they are.

If anyone has a book you want to sell your faction on, the definitive book for your guys, tell me. I'll probably give it a go.

 

[Mr Clark]

My wife and I both gagged after seeing that girls face front and center on every single post (show off the miniatures, not your horse face), but the vamp.artistry account has some sick stuff, thanks a lot!

Follow up, add beejasminepaints to vamp.artistry. she recently did some Sailor Moon Marines, made me laugh, maybe your wife will like it, mine was impressed.

 

[Total Norman Death]

Firstly, Warhammer 40k as a game system, aesthetic, and anything else died during the transition to 8th. Sure 7th was fucking cancer, but once GeeDubz inevitably cucks to zog and troons and gives you transmaris we'll all look back at 8th+ as the marvelified disney goyslop it was.

It really is a travesty. I remember 7th feeling like such dogshit and thinking it could not get worse (though there was some neat supplemental material). Immediately greeted by bulbous buzz lightyear marines and space marines that look like they're wearing sneakers. Oh yeah, Primarchs are coming back too and new players LOVE them (or spouting the same three memes about them).

Dawn of War 1 was when the franchise realistically peaked artistically, and 3rd-5th edition are when it peaked mechanically.

Bigly. Getting Firestorm over Kronus to work is what gave me any knowledge about comptuers, some of the winter assault guard cinematics still give me goosebumps. First codexes were the necron and guard 3.5 books, it never got better than that.

I remember when warhammer on youtube was just rips of video game osts and cutscenes, for the most part warhammer and hobby youtube is pure assfaggot aidscancer and I hope the new Gundam tabletop game kills GW

One can dream, but I don't even think an actual depression would kill GW. People have no fucking money and they still dump cash into GW games. GW as a whole will probably get bought out by someone when they become spread too thin and their settings will be whored out until they are totally unrecognizable. TBH if GW went I think the more recent public interest in wargaming would totally die.

 

[Snowflake Flamer]

It really is a travesty. I remember 7th feeling like such dogshit and thinking it could not get worse (though there was some neat supplemental material). Immediately greeted by bulbous buzz lightyear marines and space marines that look like they're wearing sneakers. Oh yeah, Primarchs are coming back too and new players LOVE them (or spouting the same three memes about them).

100% the game needed a cutdown back to like 4th or 3rd and some consolidation, not the insane force org negation and reddit slop.

Bigly. Getting Firestorm over Kronus to work is what gave me any knowledge about comptuers, some of the winter assault guard cinematics still give me goosebumps. First codexes were the necron and guard 3.5 books, it never got better than that.

Guard 3rd ed #2 was peak oldhammer, so much sovl. I came in later, but b/c of when I entered DOW 1 was formative for me, I remember pouring hours into Dark Crusade's campaign in HS.

TBH if GW went I think the more recent public interest in wargaming would totally die.

I'm not in the hobby for public interest, normies liking your shit can be a negative, like in the case of rapeslave goychattel like goonertown. I'm in the hobby because I like 3d printing, painting, theorizing lists, and playing the occasional game with the boys will throwing back beers. If anything, 40k becoming effectively an esport IRL, somehow league but worse, is having a deleterious effect on games design as a whole, because smaller games think GW responds to, not creates, demand. People play 40k for the lore (ebin memez), models (overwrought or soulless nuhammer slop) or the brand, not because they really care about the high quality game design (who the fuck still uses I go you go, we solved this shit in the literal 70s).

 

[Total Norman Death]

I'm not in the hobby for public interest, normies liking your shit can be a negative, like in the case of rapeslave goychattel like goonertown.

Agreed, and I hope it happens. I don't imagine wargaming will die as long as their are autismos who avoided being killed in a field before they were 21. If you told me in 2015 that Warhammer would be as popular as it is now, I don't know that I would have believed you. Opposite goonertown, you have guys that started painting/playing like 4 or 5 years ago who "feel like Warhammer changed" like they didn't start halfway down the slope.

 

[Defensive Ella Purnell]

It really is a travesty. I remember 7th feeling like such dogshit and thinking it could not get worse (though there was some neat supplemental material). Immediately greeted by bulbous buzz lightyear marines and space marines that look like they're wearing sneakers. Oh yeah, Primarchs are coming back too and new players LOVE them (or spouting the same three memes about them).

I completely agree with you. Whenever people mention 7th I immediately remember the absolutely insane detachment and formations some factions had and it being the beginning of codex creep.

HOWEVER

Compared to what came next it was fucking blissful.

 

[East_Clintwood]

I'm curious if anyone here likes a specific faction or unit because of a story?

Way back in the day I started both Space Wolves and Grey Knights after reading about the First War for Armageddon, long before they gayed it up and ruined it with the Months of Shame shit.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Are scout marines a thing in horus herasy, and are there primeris scouts?

long before they gayed it up and ruined it with the Months of Shame shit.

What did they change?

100% the game needed a cutdown back to like 4th or 3rd and some consolidation, not the insane force org negation and reddit slop.

Unpopular opinion, but really if GW wants to fix the game, they'd need some kind of major overhaul. Be it alternate activation, a switch to d12s to allow a greater range of results, or flat out making OPR with force organization and campaign rules.

This will never happen, in part because it would cause a huge split in the 40k fanbase that would make femstodes look like a nothing burger in comparison, and in part because GWs business model atm is bilking competitive players via power creep.

He does not look like a rapist, chomo, or troon as key luminaries here have suggested. He looks like a gay raped goycattle slave who seeks to actualize the agency he lost in being raped by perpetuating the cycle of rape

What's the difference?

 

[Total Norman Death]

Are scout marines a thing in horus herasy, and are there primeris scouts?

Scouts are a thing and there are recon marines, which serve a similar purpose but have power armor. There are also seekers who are hit squads and their 40k equivalent would be Sternguard. White Scars have a unit of outflanking, scout armor, lighting claw scouts. As much as its 20+ space marine factions and a handful of non marines, each legion does have a lot of variety.

For primaris, they recently updated the traditional scout kit, and they loot pretty good. However, the scout role has really passed to the reivers, part of the first wave of primaris and they have a lighter power armor that makes it look like they're wearing fucking sneakers. There are some newer versions of them with sniper rifles and camo cloaks as well.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

Firstly, Warhammer 40k as a game system, aesthetic, and anything else died during the transition to 8th.

I can't speak for the game system but judging purely off the codex art 8th edition codices were the last time they looked good. The art is just the 7th edition artwork but trimmed down the borders to give a more picture frame look with a unique trim for each factions. I also really liked the cover on the index books how Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos got their own skull to kind of represent themselves.

Where I think the aesthetic really died was right after 8th edition when they changed the logo to be brighter instead of the dark hard marbled look of the old logo. Arguably the older artwork had more color because it had greater contrast. They popped a lot more. The art these days all looks washed out and faded. I think it'd faded because it's cheaper to not draw as much detail. Old covers really focused on the character. Modern covers are zoomed out on the scene where no one character has that great detail. And I actually hate that there are no borders on the covers either. I hate it on trading cards too but I really feel that the frame of an art piece is just as much a part of the art.

Unpopular opinion, but really if GW wants to fix the game, they'd need some kind of major overhaul. Be it alternate activation, a switch to d12s to allow a greater range of results, or flat out making OPR with force organization and campaign rules.

I don't think this is totally unpopular. Everyone seems to want a major overhaul, the question is which way to go. Some want to go back to oldhammer, others want to go in a totally new direction a la OPR. At the very least I think people are ready for an alternating activations system. It's just a cleaner way to play that eliminates all the downtime of waiting for you opponent to play solo-hammer before it's your turn. I feel like much of the issues with cover can also be alleviated with A.A. since you can do things like baiting activations, or stalling. A.A. has its own issues like making activation count king, but I still consider it an improvement. Killteam does A.A. just fine so I don't see why it can't be done in 40k.

Moving to a whole new dice might be more than people are ready for. Getting a shit ton of d6s is easy. This is necessary for when I disembark my breacher team and roll 30 dice against your intercessors. Good luck getting d12s or any other RPG dice in quantity. While I don't disagree that a wider range of values would help, I think GW would also have to taken the responsibility of making enough bulk dice for everyone until the market catches up. They can't even make enough model kits, or books, or anything for their customers. I don't trust them to make enough d12s for everyone. Then we'd have to decide what is actually the correct scale for the game. You want a large enough scale that you can make basic infantry, space marines, and tanks feel significantly different, but not so wide spread where the difference between an 8 and a 7 is practically nothing.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Trench Crusade related.

Battletech has "leaked" their next crowdfunder. It's Trench Crusade but with mechs. Called Battletech Gothic.

This being a "leak" leaves some questions. It's not on their official social medias. I've seen claims they confirmed it on discord. If it's April fools joke, it's a well produced one.

 

[p1138]

Moving to a whole new dice might be more than people are ready for. Getting a shit ton of d6s is easy. This is necessary for when I disembark my breacher team and roll 30 dice against your intercessors. Good luck getting d12s or any other RPG dice in quantity. While I don't disagree that a wider range of values would help, I think GW would also have to taken the responsibility of making enough bulk dice for everyone until the market catches up. They can't even make enough model kits, or books, or anything for their customers. I don't trust them to make enough d12s for everyone. Then we'd have to decide what is actually the correct scale for the game. You want a large enough scale that you can make basic infantry, space marines, and tanks feel significantly different, but not so wide spread where the difference between an 8 and a 7 is practically nothing.

Switching to d10s would be fine, companies already produce them in bulk for the other systems that use them. d20s would be fine as well, but rolling a pile of d20s at a time is annoying(they want to keep rolling even within a dice tray instead of coming to a stop).

You're right that GW can't keep up with manufacturing of minis, but their dice are made in china(the dice cubes, and their overpriced faction dice)

If Chessex, Koplow, Wizkids, etc. had 6 months notice it wouldn't be a big deal for them to have plenty of product available without GW needing to do much beyond putting d10s in the basic starter set. You can already buy 100 packs of d4, d12, etc. pretty easily if you just look in the right places https://www.dicegamedepot.com/polyhedral-dice-in-bulk/ Also by having a wider range to use on the die, you wouldn't need as many to make up for lack of variation like the existing system having a unit of ork boyz rolling 30 dice hitting on 5s to keep them different enough from space marines hitting on 3s. Or only being able to represent saves on a 2-6 leading to weird shit like infantry getting the same save as a fucking tank and the only real variation being the wound roll(or adding an invul, or FNP, etc which is just extra layers to add differentiation).