Warhammer 40k

[Fear&LoathinginMcDonalds]

If we're talking airbrush and not rattle can, Vallejo German Panzer Grey primer has always been my go-to. You might think that its black by looking at the bottle, but its a nice deep dark grey with a satin finish. It makes layering up more translucent colours a little easier because its not a pure black.

It's funny because I use Vallejo white and black to mix up my own grey primer. I just can't seem to find a straight answer online as to the difference between labeled primers and self made, at least in regard to acrylic model paints. Things get more complex with enamels and while my spray booth is set up to ventilate enamels, I haven't used them yet.
I know like, particle size makes a difference but if I can control the atomization on my airbrush does that really matter when it comes to the paint itself?
Some of the citadel rattlecan primers seem to have a more matte finish, but that seems like something you could achieve just thinning some matte paint and airbrushing it.
I guess maybe it just comes down to whatever mix of medium and thinner you're using?

 

[Muad'Dick]

It's funny because I use Vallejo white and black to mix up my own grey primer. I just can't seem to find a straight answer online as to the difference between labeled primers and self made, at least in regard to acrylic model paints. Things get more complex with enamels and while my spray booth is set up to ventilate enamels, I haven't used them yet.
I know like, particle size makes a difference but if I can control the atomization on my airbrush does that really matter when it comes to the paint itself?
Some of the citadel rattlecan primers seem to have a more matte finish, but that seems like something you could achieve just thinning some matte paint and airbrushing it.
I guess maybe it just comes down to whatever mix of medium and thinner you're using?

From my understanding (and anyone feel free to chime in if I'm full of shit) there isn't really anything special about acrylic primers. It's just acrylic paint. I've airbrushed basecoats using "normal" acrylic paint and haven't noticed any difference in paint adherence between a couple of coats of primer and a couple of coats of standard paint.

Like you say, once you start getting into the esoteric arts of enamel or cellulose paints then its a different ballgame entirely, but if there was anything unique about acrylic primer then surely you would be changing the magic formula the moment you started thinning it. For me its about convenience, price and consistency.

 

[augment]

T Z A A N G O R S

You vill buy ze trash mob unit and field them on your list, ve vill make you!!!

It's funny because I use Vallejo white and black to mix up my own grey primer. I just can't seem to find a straight answer online as to the difference between labeled primers and self made, at least in regard to acrylic model paints. Things get more complex with enamels and while my spray booth is set up to ventilate enamels, I haven't used them yet.
I know like, particle size makes a difference but if I can control the atomization on my airbrush does that really matter when it comes to the paint itself?
Some of the citadel rattlecan primers seem to have a more matte finish, but that seems like something you could achieve just thinning some matte paint and airbrushing it.
I guess maybe it just comes down to whatever mix of medium and thinner you're using?

It's all reliant on your knowledge of painting. When I was younger I would prime with enamels and then coat acrylics over, and occasionally some pieces would melt under a chemical reaction mess, because I didn't know better. In short try to avoid buying citadel paints in any format, just because they're absurdly overpriced and they are by no means the top tier quality they claim to have.
I've had bad batches of vallejo black primer, and also bad AK black primer. If I'm painting inks or contrast I'll go with white primer, grey not needed. But mostly black gloss or black matte primer is the catch-all, AK acrylics, or their black lacquer stuff with microfiller (but only because I have a fume extractor now)

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

From my understanding (and anyone feel free to chime in if I'm full of shit) there isn't really anything special about acrylic primers. It's just acrylic paint.

Yes and no. Primers are supposed to have better bonding to bare plastic than regular acrylic, though I think even GW sometimes says you can paint straight colors if you really want.

Though easily the biggest reason for primers is the ease of getting your first coat, or doing some fancy shading. You either get a color match primer that will get all the primary color done quickly, or you undercoat white for contrast paints. I'll be honest I always primed simply because I was told you're supposed to. I might try painting something without. But spraying everything black first does help cut some of my paint time. If only Pro Acryl made a sky blue primer since that's most of the paint I use.

 

[Muad'Dick]

Yes and no. Primers are supposed to have better bonding to bare plastic than regular acrylic, though I think even GW sometimes says you can paint straight colors if you really want.

I'd always assumed that, but I've never seen any acrylic primer behave differently to a standard pot of paint once you fire it through an airbrush. If I was painting by hand then maybe there is a world of difference. That being said I'm super anal about my first coat anyway. I always give my minis a couple of days for the basecoat to fully cure before I start painting them. Old habits die hard.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

I tried the pro acryl airbrush primer because it also says you can brush it on. I thought I could get the biggest brush I have and slap it on so I could prime any time I want. The problem in it has to be super super thin to run through an airbrush properly so when it gets brushed on it behaves like an ink, pulls really hard, and barely has any coverage. The biggest offense was the paint is extremely delicate, more so than base paints. A gentle rub against my thumb from picking pieces up and down was enough to remove paint. That was after giving it two days to completely cure as well. I don't know if it's an issue with the brand, or if all airbrush primer is like that, but all rattle can primer needs is about 10-15 minutes before it's ready to go, and anything short of harsh chemicals and abrasion will not remove the paint.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Primers are supposed to have better bonding to bare plastic than regular acrylic, though I think even GW sometimes says you can paint straight colors if you really want.

Back in the day the first coat had a tendency to just slide off the plastic, so priming was a good idea if you didn't want to do many coats.

But spraying everything black first does help cut some of my paint time.

Disagree. Priming black and painting over was something I'd heard a lot over my time in hobby, but it never really worked. I even remember a special high pigment paint line citadel did that was intended to paint over black better. I didn't like it as it was basically painting with chalk.
This video, at least the first parts (I've not used contrast paints or airbrushes) echos my experience exactly.

Edit: At 4:25 he goes into the "prime it black" argument.

 

[Mr Clark]

If we're talking airbrush and not rattle can, Vallejo German Panzer Grey primer has always been my go-to. You might think that its black by looking at the bottle, but its a nice deep dark grey with a satin finish. It makes layering up more translucent colours a little easier because its not a pure black.

This.

Both Mechanicus Standard Grey and Vallejo German Panzer Grey are fantastic for priming for these reasons. Go white or black if you really need thar base, otherwise go a dark grey.

 

[Muad'Dick]

I tried the pro acryl airbrush primer because it also says you can brush it on. I thought I could get the biggest brush I have and slap it on so I could prime any time I want. The problem in it has to be super super thin to run through an airbrush properly so when it gets brushed on it behaves like an ink, pulls really hard, and barely has any coverage. The biggest offense was the paint is extremely delicate, more so than base paints. A gentle rub against my thumb from picking pieces up and down was enough to remove paint. That was after giving it two days to completely cure as well. I don't know if it's an issue with the brand, or if all airbrush primer is like that, but all rattle can primer needs is about 10-15 minutes before it's ready to go, and anything short of harsh chemicals and abrasion will not remove the paint.

I've only ever used Pro Acryl's base paints and they've been rock solid. Was it just a single bottle of the primer or have they behaved like that across the range? It may just be a bad batch. Especially with how you're describing the surface tension. That sounds like the medium mix is fucked up.

I've had similar things happen with AK acrylics. When they first released their 3Gen range, about half of the paints I bought on my first order behaved very similar to what you're talking about. At least AK were very good about replacing them (and throwing in a little extra).

 

[augment]

For the longest time I could not understand why miniature painters painted whites or yellows (or reds) over a coat of black primer. The translucency effect of acrylics coupled with the smaller polymer size of those pigments means you will need to layer and cake-up a lasagna's worth of coats to get even remotely close to saturation. I'm glad they're priming with white, tan or pink now, at least.

I've had similar things happen with AK acrylics. When they first released their 3Gen range, about half of the paints I bought on my first order behaved very similar to what you're talking about. At least AK were very good about replacing them (and throwing in a little extra).

The biggest issue I ran with 3rd gen AK acrylics was bubbling when using their glaze medium, but I learned to coat evenly and slower as to allow those bubbles to disappear.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

I've only ever used Pro Acryl's base paints and they've been rock solid. Was it just a single bottle of the primer or have they behaved like that across the range? It may just be a bad batch. Especially with how you're describing the surface tension. That sounds like the medium mix is fucked up.

I tried it both in black and white and both had the same effect. Customer support says that's normal and it's only meant to provide a layer you can paint on top of. I bought their rattle cans that came out and have no problem at all with paint coming off. However I'm either doing something catastrophically wrong or there's very little pigment in the can because it felt like I would keep spraying the model and wasn't getting any coverage. I think I'm gonna chalk it up to a skill issue and try again if it ever stops raining before winter.

Edit: Went out and sprayed a few Necrons. Black primer is phenomenal. Great coverage, matt finish, only took a minute. The white can felt like a struggle. I have to keep the can close because it doesn't spray very far and is very cloudy. The finish with white is super speckled and shows a lot of the grey plastic underneath. The black primer is a super smooth complete coverage. I know white is notoriously difficult to get good coverage, but I would expect the shotgun approach and hosing it down with paint would fix that. Maybe I'll try the grey can to see if it's a good middle ground.

 

[Humble Architect]

For the longest time I could not understand why miniature painters painted whites or yellows (or reds) over a coat of black primer. The translucency effect of acrylics coupled with the smaller polymer size of those pigments means you will need to layer and cake-up a lasagna's worth of coats to get even remotely close to saturation. I'm glad they're priming with white, tan or pink now, at least.

I do it inconsistently and sporadically over the black primer to create a guide in my brain for what’s going to become pink and to give myself a head-start in building those layers.

 

[Fear&LoathinginMcDonalds]

For the longest time I could not understand why miniature painters painted whites or yellows (or reds) over a coat of black primer.

One of my first experiences with 40k was a roommate buying 3 combat patrols at once, (blood angels, chaos marines, and guardsmen) then priming all of the space marines with what I am certain was an early vantablack prototype and then giving up halfway through painting them because all his colors were barely showing up.

He took the black angels with him when he moved out but left both the guardsmen and chaos marines so now I have more warhammer than I know what to do with.

 

[Swiss46]

I'm not a good painter by any stretch but my experience with priming has been that white is perfect for light colors/contrast paints while black tends to have more even coverage and I find myself liking the end results better.

 

[daniel day]

Theres really no one size fits all for priming in my experience. What Ive found that works is, generally a pure white doesnt so if youre using a lot of warm colors and you want the model to be very visible then a light/medium gray is best. Black/dark gray is more of a shortcut, similar to Nuln oil in that itll hide a lot of mistakes.

It also depends on what the project is. A single character model youre going to want maximum control over might be better with a lighter primer so you can work on your values and the prime wont be fighting you as much. For an entire army, then Vallejo or GW or AP makes a lot of different color rattle cans or airbrush paints (I prefer rattle cans, I cant accomodate an airbrush ATM, as much as Id like one). I primed my entire Ultramarines army using GW's rattle can of macragge blue, then used a leadbelcher spray for my entire Word Bearer's army to save a ton of time. People have been talking about Zenithal highlighting, and using speed paints. All good options. You could absolutely prime a dark gray then apply a thin coat with a second rattle can of a light gray over top to establish values easier.

The biggest hiccup I see with primers (and Ive tried a LOT of different primers) is just the mixing portion. I had an issue with my leadbelcher/Macragge Blue because they were coming out grainy and I couldnt understand why until I shook the fuck out of it. I put it on a vortex mixer and hand shook it for like 30 minutes. Since then ive had to occasionally shake it for 5 or so minutes, but the initial mixing has been key. Hand painting primer has never been my preference (destroys brushes, is kind of just a pain in the ass to work with), and Ive never used an air brush so I cant comment.

 

[Mr Clark]

Priming

Cans vs airbrush/brush

Cans have something that gently melts the plastic, so the primer melts on. Only need like 15 mins but I'd wait an hour to be safe. Affected by weather.

Airbrush or brush primer hugs the mini in a layer of primer to allow you to paint over. Requires at least 24 hours to cure, id leave it 72. Not affected by weather.

Prime colour gets into a bit of colour theory and what colours do underneath to colours on top but to keep it simple...
Black- most colours can go over this, the paint will appear slightly dark but solid
Dark Grey - similar to black but because its not black, allows you to see black coverage and shadows a little easier. Very safe colour to prime with.
Grey Seer, / Wraithbone / White Scar - GW sprays perfect for contrasts. Theres a good reddit post with all contrasts on different primers to compare and not just these ones. These 3 are just the 'best' best for contrasts which get their colour from the primer (colour underneath) and the contrast applied (almost a wash). Also helpful for regular painting.
White / Pink / Brown - heres where things get weird. These are perfect for certain colours youre trying to paint. The hardest which are white and yellow (pink and orange difficult but not as hard), lets use yellow as an example.
Yellow on white appears bright yellow (the white gives a lot of colours a bit of brightness). But on Brown and Pink, it can give a dirty yellow or orange at times.

Tl;dr
- Not much difference between can and airbrush/brush primer.
- Colours below influence colours above
- Dark or mid grey primer is friendly for 90% of colours.
- White, Yellow, Pink and sometimes Orange need a little research for desited outcome

 

[AncientPhosphur]

Tbh I don’t use grey as a primer because I can never tell if I applied it properly on the grey plastic model base

 

[p1138]

For the longest time I could not understand why miniature painters painted whites or yellows (or reds) over a coat of black primer. The translucency effect of acrylics coupled with the smaller polymer size of those pigments means you will need to layer and cake-up a lasagna's worth of coats to get even remotely close to saturation. I'm glad they're priming with white, tan or pink now, at least.

People priming almost exclusively in black, especially when the majority is going to be brighter colors or those that don't cover so well is something I never understood. There is one up-side to priming with black vs white and it's that if you miss something from below on a model, it's a shadow rather than a bright spot that stands out. Of course when you've made your life three times more difficult by using a black primer, I can see how that might be considered a positive if you've never bothered trying to prime in white or grey.

As other people have said, the primer color impacts the paint you're applying on top, and there's no reason to not make your life easier especially when painting a ton of infantry Painting ultramarines? Prime them blue, save yourself some work(there's other colors that can work as well but at least basic blue would usually be better than black). Painting imperial fists and not concerned with undertones and shit? Prime them yellow.

The biggest hiccup I see with primers (and Ive tried a LOT of different primers) is just the mixing portion. I had an issue with my leadbelcher/Macragge Blue because they were coming out grainy and I couldnt understand why until I shook the fuck out of it. I put it on a vortex mixer and hand shook it for like 30 minutes. Since then ive had to occasionally shake it for 5 or so minutes, but the initial mixing has been key.

It's kind of amazing how many people just don't understand this. See it all the time with people complaining about primer, and if you watch their idea of shaking a rattlecan it's super half-assed.

Cans vs airbrush/brush

Cans have something that gently melts the plastic, so the primer melts on. Only need like 15 mins but I'd wait an hour to be safe. Affected by weather.

Airbrush or brush primer hugs the mini in a layer of primer to allow you to paint over. Requires at least 24 hours to cure, id leave it 72. Not affected by weather.

Also this. Just because its dry doesn't mean it's finished curing. Hell, even regular acrylic paints themselves can be rubbed off easily when they seem dry. Personally with a rattlecan or airbrush primer, I generally wait a couple of days before messing with them. I wouldn't know if painting over primer before it's fully cured can keep the primer from curing long term, but having fought with primer due to not leaving it long enough, it just seems safer to let it sit and never have to worry about it.

 

[Red flaming panda]

Since TC is still being brought up here, I might as well bring this up.

(Link) (Archive)
>They're this fucking mad about e-celebs shit talking their game
Lmao. I think we might need a troon crusade thread.

 

[p1138]

Since TC is still being brought up here, I might as well bring this up.
View attachment 7156657
(Link) (Archive)
>They're this fucking mad about e-celebs shit talking their game
Lmao. I think we might need a troon crusade thread.

They're also openly paying for ads in videos now. Saw an auspex tactics video the other day sponsored by them. That's not to say that paying for ads is a bad thing when producing a product, but I'd say it likely confirms the astro-turfing that was previously suspected.