Warhammer 40k

[Humble Architect]

Subassembly would be the term you're looking for, and depending on the model it can make painting a lot easier. Some people take it to the extreme and paint every part individually which is just absurd. The best use is just look at how the model goes together and if there's a shield on an army in the way or a gun across the chest that blocks your access, paint those separate. It's also generally easier to paint faces separately as well and then just glue them on later for models without helmets.

The alternative, that I do, is prime in black and leave the the “shadows” on the parts where light isn’t gonna hit. Like the in-between bolter and torso. If nobody’s gonna see it, why should I paint it? Just make it dark so nobody’s eyes are drawn to it.

This naturally only works with more gritty paint styles.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Warhammer does need to stop updating its rules every 5 minutes, but it also can't function like TTRPGs where once the rule is printed, that's it, it's out there. That's how it works until the next edition comes out

Why not? Other than occational errata for the most egregious errors, 40k was fine with physical books. Other games are fine with physical books. It's a uniquely 40k problem.

It comes up in this thread pretty regularly, someone asks people to post models, a handful post models most just continue to complain about the youtube grifters. People try to talk about actually playing games, back to discussing the youtube grifters. Mention lore and talk about books, a few people will give recommendations and then back to bitching about shit from youtube.

If you mean me, that's fine. I can not post about them in this thread.

It's something I find more fun in terms of discussion than the usual bullshit arguments about the meta, complaining about price hikes, or complaining about femstodes for billionth time.

Plus, because I was away a while, I'm still learning of a bunch of ways the hobby has changed in that time.

 

[p1138]

If you mean me, that's fine. I can not post about them in this thread.

I didn't, I've seen you actually post about reading books in this thread, mentioned painting or at least wanting to, may not talk about recent games played but still actually discussed playing in the past.

I didn't mean that bitching about the grifters, youtube people etc. itself is bad(fuck, I do that). I mean just the constant bitching and lack of actually doing anything that might involve the hobby in some capacity(which doesn't just mean playing the game).

It's something I find more fun in terms of discussion than the usual bullshit arguments about the meta, complaining about price hikes, or complaining about femstodes for billionth time.

Most of the people bitching about "the meta" likely don't play, or play at a level where it would even matter. People bitching about price hikes as if nothing else(including other games) goes up in price are either dumb or can't be bothered to learn where to shop, and the femstodes shit they probably never would have noticed if it wasn't for the grifters in the first place and I suspect it comes up in waves due to grfiters circling back on the shit because they don't have anything interesting to discuss for their 6th video this week.

 

[Inquisitor_BadAss]

I know it had a garbage reputation but I kinda miss 7th edition 40K. Placing three doomsday arks on a skyshield landing pad for a 4+ invulnerable save was always funny but never made it's points back. I must have spent at least £200.00 on fortifications, probably a bit more.

 

[daniel day]

@p1138 I meant the Poorhammer guys, I am absolutely aware that bricky is a manchild youtube guy. Apparently brad works as a manager at a car manufacturer and Eric does something adjacent to that while holding like a rocket science degree or something. Pretty impressive outside of internet sperging, and definitely makes sense why their faces arent associated with their internet stuff.

Got my minis and supplies. Going to start tomorrow, I also got that small box with paints and 3 Marines so I can mess around and get acquainted before I start with my Eldar minis. Now idea why, but now that I am looking at the individual pieces, I thought everything would be just a smidge bigger.

People really dont understand how tiny warhammer miniatures are. I know several people that thought starting with the joytoy figures was a decent place to begin painting, and nothing I could say would convince them otherwise until they actually compared how big of a size disparity existed between them.

in other unfortunate news I've been playing a lot of SM2 and listening to lore, and I think I might be into Blood Angels now. I've bought Devastation of Baal and I just got in a unit of jumpack intercessors. I'm also eyeing up the crimson lords upgrade kits from Greytide Studios. This is while I'm repainting my entire Wordbearers CSM range (my first army - necrons don't count for painting), and also I'm wrist deep in my Ultramarines. Fucking spare me, I feel like a magpie.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

Why not? Other than occational errata for the most egregious errors, 40k was fine with physical books. Other games are fine with physical books. It's a uniquely 40k problem.

I covered them in my post but I'll reiterate. If something sucks or doesn't work exactly right in an RPG books, you have a player designated who's rule is law. There's no arguing, no rules lawyering, what the DM says go. 40k doesn't have a DM and both players are trying to beat the other. In DnD if something is OP the DM will either ban it, or come up with scenarios to balance it. TTRPGs have such infinite granularity with how rules can be adjusted and balanced game to game that 40k can't. Worst case in DnD you just pick a different class. In 40k you can't just switch armies for an edition unless you've been collecting for a long time, or have an extreme amount of disposable income.

What do we do about codex releases? Maybe everything works fine because say Tyranids were balanced around Space Marine codex, but neither of them were balanced around Death Guard or say Grey Knights. That's gonna cause flavor of the month if a codex is released that isn't balanced against index armies because they expect it to get fixed when their codex is released= in the future. You can try to balance each codex for the game as it is on release but again that's a really difficult task because you're writing yourself into a corner. Really the only way it works is for a new edition to come out with all rules and codices at the same time. It's definitely possible if, instead of fucking around for three years during an edition and constantly playing catch up, they spent those years writing the next edition. But if they do they, wtf are people buying for the next three years? We agreed that supplements are bad because it paywalls rules you need for your army. In DnD it doesn't hurt anyone if you don't have a copy of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything and you lose out on some optional subclasses and items. In 40k you're basically just chopping up the codex and slowly releasing the rest of it in parts. And we're also back to rules changing every couple of months as new shit gets added to the game. The seasonal mission packs are fine because it doesn't change anyone's army. Crusade books are fine because it's a separate game mode. What else is going on the shelves?

Logistically books are kind of a nightmare. In the first few editions it wasn't reasonable to expect people to have digital access to rules, so books were the only way you could do it. But now there's nothing stopping GW from releasing the codex as a free PDF that I can download. Books are expensive to produce, it's another thing I'd have to lug around, and I can't tap on a keyword to get a little popup with a rules summary. If you really want books as an optional release that's fine, but I don't know if GW can make it worth the time and money to produce them for the few people who want them. Better to make a book purchase required, even if you just want the code, so they can justify printing them. Maybe a codex is a more appealing purchase if a player knows that this book will be good for the next three years, but if I can pay a couple bucks for a PDF version that I can print at Staples if I really wanted to, then I would.

 

[p1138]

Logistically books are kind of a nightmare. In the first few editions it wasn't reasonable to expect people to have digital access to rules, so books were the only way you could do it. But now there's nothing stopping GW from releasing the codex as a free PDF that I can download. Books are expensive to produce, it's another thing I'd have to lug around, and I can't tap on a keyword to get a little popup with a rules summary. If you really want books as an optional release that's fine, but I don't know if GW can make it worth the time and money to produce them for the few people who want them. Better to make a book purchase required, even if you just want the code, so they can justify printing them. Maybe a codex is a more appealing purchase if a player knows that this book will be good for the next three years, but if I can pay a couple bucks for a PDF version that I can print at Staples if I really wanted to, then I would.

Seriously, this. It's fucking 2025, people have phones and the battery lasts more than an hour with the screen on.

No, I don't want to lug around a 300 page core rulebook. A 100 page codex. A 75 page narrative warzone book. A 40 page points book. 1-2 issues of White Dwarf, and then possibly another 80 page fluff book that has a unit sheet printed in the back of it. That's a bunch of bullshit to be stuck carrying around in a backpack like some schoolkid, 90% of which I actually don't even need but it's just stuck with the rest. And then on top of all of that, still need an army list and have to remember which rule/stratagem/datasheet/etc. is in which book if I have to actually reference it in the middle of a game.

And that's all ignoring being able to update anything. Dev wound spam eldar with a 75% win rate was bad enough at the start of 10th, not fixing that would have likely actually made a dent in the amount of people willing to play the game. Or the 9th edition Votann codex that was so fucking bad GW apologized for it before launch, nerfed all of it, rendering the back half of the book with the rules in it entirely useless for playing the game.

People either weren't playing, had things work out in their favor, luckily never encountered shit, or just plain forgot when armies didn't get updates for a decade at a time. Leaving things either broken and unplayable, or broken and overpowered. If I decide to drive 2 hours to play a game, I don't want to have to spend 30 minutes going over the local gentleman's agreements that are attempting to fix a busted mess that hasn't been updated in ages possibly to find out that the shit I did take to play with isn't considered playable there because that particular store's players have all collectively banned a specific character or something to avoid an issue that I may not even be aware of.

And sure, there are other games out there that do not get updated as often and don't need to be. But they're also usually smaller games with fewer factions or factions that aren't as distinct. Team Yankee and Bolt Action don't need to balance an equivalent of imperial guard, chaos daemons, and resurrecting necrons all within the same system. Even within Star Wars Legion things aren't as drastically different between armies.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

No, I don't want to lug around a 300 page core rulebook. A 100 page codex. A 75 page narrative warzone book. A 40 page points book. 1-2 issues of White Dwarf, and then possibly another 80 page fluff book that has a unit sheet printed in the back of it. That's a bunch of bullshit to be stuck carrying around in a backpack like some schoolkid, 90% of which I actually don't even need but it's just stuck with the rest. And then on top of all of that, still need an army list and have to remember which rule/stratagem/datasheet/etc. is in which book if I have to actually reference it in the middle of a game.

 

[augment]

Codexes have lost all value to me. Their art is recycled, has been blandified compared to the edgy scribblings of years yore, rules are broken before release and get FAQ'd to heaven and back within a week. The last straw was the retconning of lore due to lack of knowledge/possible ai-writing to fill the pages.

 

[daniel day]

Team Yankee and Bolt Action don't need to balance an equivalent of imperial guard, chaos daemons, and resurrecting necrons all within the same system

I've thought for a while that 40k has to sort out its army bloat problem. Fewer armies would mean fewer books written by different people and therefore (hypothetically) fewer balance problems. The ever-updating rules changes are also fucking retarded. Make one book at the beginning of the edition, include some page insert slots with free rule updates that they hand out at GW and affiliated stores, and combine some of the more unnecessary armies and call that good. Demons only has like 30 data sheets total, they could slot right into their respective cult army codexes and be fine. Same with genestealers, the range isn't huge, they could absolutely fit into nids with little issue. The same could be said for Imperial Agents swallowing up deathwatch, gray knights, and knights under one banner. These armies have like, half a range and its retarded that they're treated as fully fledged armies. Space Marines have it better where they have a really strong core and then they add on trinkets and lore and call that a new army, but basically every other faction doesn't have that advantage.

 

[Humble Architect]

Codexes have lost all value to me. Their art is recycled, has been blandified compared to the edgy scribblings of years yore, rules are broken before release and get FAQ'd to heaven and back within a week. The last straw was the retconning of lore due to lack of knowledge/possible ai-writing to fill the pages.

I cherish my 8th ed CSM codex, last edition where those things had any value.

Loads of lore, painted models, alternate colour schemes (warbands) and even conversion suggestions.

 

[Snekposter]

AMEN, GLORY TO THE DARK GODS BROTHER! PREACH!

The only person disagreeing with the truths you have said is an anime profile pic.

I’ve had better 40k engagement with the kid at work I’m Warrior Lodging into 40k than any of these retarded youtubers who get the lore wrong.

“So there’s a chapter? All Asian? And they actually fight like the biker clones from the old Star Wars cartoon?”

“Yes.”

Can I get a "Hell Yeah!"?

 

[p1138]

Space Marines have it better where they have a really strong core and then they add on trinkets and lore and call that a new army, but basically every other faction doesn't have that advantage.

Space marines are half of the bloat, maybe more. If you're not taking named characters, loyalist space marines have 22 detachments, not including the additional detachments that still aren't out yet for Black Templars and Space Wolves that are likely to add another 3 each bringing it up to 28 before the Salamanders that were on the roadmap from the last reveal show meaning there's probably another round of codex compliant detachments coming.

All while needing to treat those detachments for the base-line power armor guys as different armies and attempt to keep them all playable, while having this shit show of a roster of units.


If so much design space wasn't wasted on loyalist space marines, just so Timmy could have his 31 flavors of intercessors, a lot of that variety and time spent on it could be spent elsewhere in the game. Sure, Imperial Knights and Imperial Agents could go in the same book, but that doesn't actually change the number of units and detachments. They've already done that with Chaos Daemons assigning them to their appropriate CSM legions, but then they've still got their own 6 detachments but it's still a fraction of the ridiculousness of loyalist space marine bloat. I'm pretty sure Eldar even after having Ynnari and Harlequins shoved back into the overall faction is still only 1/3 of the datasheets and only 9 detachments.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

"Boreale's speech but Google-translated out of existence"

- Eliphas

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

"Am I doing something wrong?"

He's becoming sentient and I'm not sure whether that's good or bad.

 

[Lady Adjani]

If you stop watching 40K content creators and actually engage with a community (either online or IRL) your level of fun and appreciation for the hobby will increase dramatically. Content creators are not part of the community. Their interest begins and ends at their quest for clout and/or money.

The only content worth watching from that crowd is about painting/kibashing, and even then the scale modelling scene is way more interesting, accomplished and isn't dragging the baggage of the game through the shit alongside it. You don't need to sit through a War Thunder ad read to see what flavour of the month style of slapchop is the current meta. Refine your skills. Refine your style. Paint your models how you see fit and have fun with it.

Fuck lore videos. Read a book. Discuss the book with your friends. If you're pushed for time, an audio book will get you a passing grade. Especially if you're listening to it while building/painting.

None of these people respect the most valuable resource you have; your time.

The hot take industrial complex and it's grifters have been a disaster for the hobby.

RETVRN

The internet as a whole has become this centralized overly-saturated cesspit where everybody is trying to "make it". So you end up with a bunch of disingenuous actors trying to shill you stuff, farm engagement or just pump out hollow content in order to appease muh algorithm.

 

[Donuteater]

I like the poor hammer guys as some background slop, but the fact that they only got into Warhammer during covid is indicative of where their opinions belong. Brad is GWs ideal customer though. Highly educated but not intelligent, married with no kids and a shocking amount of disposable income to irresponsibly purchase whatever he wants at a whim. He's exactly who I would pander to if I wanted to make bank.
The reason they're so eager to work with bricky is he handles their merch. It's basically a subcategory of his merch store where he handles everything for them.
And digital rules are 100% where 40k should go. We all have phones and everything you need to play the game should be on the app with zero issues. Unfortunately, GW had Indians make the app so it's terrible.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

Loads of lore, painted models, alternate colour schemes (warbands) and even conversion suggestions.

The biggest loss for codices is the lack of hobbying advice. The T'au codex is barely over 100 pages long and only 39 pages have anything to do with lore. For some reason GW gives up and stops numbering the pages halfway through, and then remembers to number them again later in the rules. There are only 5 pages total that go over all the septs in the empire so each one barely gets two paragraphs. Tells you nothing about their culture, or military organization, or how to paint the god damn sept color!!! If I want to run a Bork'an color scheme, what color would that be? What paints should I buy? What if I just want to paint Farsight or Shadowsun? No advice because you have to download the app! I'm surprised there isn't even an ad for the app somewhere in this book. But even if you download the app it's only going to teach you how to paint Vior'la and....Au'taal?!! The fucking resort planet that hasn't been mentioned since 7th edition? It's not even the right color!

 

[The tired cat]

I will say, I'm kinda surprised the new Ork detachment has been re-worked/nerfed with the latest patch notes. They made the SpeedFreaks suck less, but Dakka Dakka Dakka is still untouched.

 

[I Know 孤独のせい]

The biggest loss for codices is the lack of hobbying advice. The T'au codex is barely over 100 pages long and only 39 pages have anything to do with lore. For some reason GW gives up and stops numbering the pages halfway through, and then remembers to number them again later in the rules. There are only 5 pages total that go over all the septs in the empire so each one barely gets two paragraphs. Tells you nothing about their culture, or military organization, or how to paint the god damn sept color!!! If I want to run a Bork'an color scheme, what color would that be? What paints should I buy? What if I just want to paint Farsight or Shadowsun? No advice because you have to download the app! I'm surprised there isn't even an ad for the app somewhere in this book. But even if you download the app it's only going to teach you how to paint Vior'la and....Au'taal?!! The fucking resort planet that hasn't been mentioned since 7th edition? It's not even the right color!

I love having physical media, especially when it comes to books etc. but looking through my Eldar codex I can't help to be a bit disappointed precisely because of the issues you mentioned. There is a decent amount of lore there but at the same time a lot of it is superficial and considering 40K has been going on for like 3,4 decades I would have expected it to be double the amount that there is. And as for advice how to paint, there are two pages dedicated to one combat patrol and "how to" paint it. And the instructions are basically just use paint Nr. 1 and then Nr. 2 and then Nr 3. Why are there not dedicated tutorials for the big Craftworlds ? Why no information what kind of colors would be useful for Eldar in general ? My codex has four other Craftworlds, but no pictures on how they might look. There are probably other Craftworlds that are not mentioned in the codex, why not have a list and a general color scheme listed in the codex ? I might see if I can pick up a 9th or 8th edition codex, maybe those are a bit better.