Warhammer 40k

[Second Missing Primarch]

Had a fun 3rd edition game with my friend the other day. Turns out slowly marching your death guard into a firing wall of Missile Launchers is a bad way to take an objective.

Maybe, but it sure is lore-accurate.

 

[Humble Architect]

i prefer logar as a chaos primarch
perturabo is the best traitor primarch

bless these two autistic mad lads

Lorgar and Zardu’s visit to Fulgrim’s Diddy party was one of the highlights of Slaves to Darkness, it’s one of the few times Lorgar is close to a “mistakes were made” moment when he sees what his older brother is up to.

 

[alogatog]

Hobby tourist faggots of the highest order. I don't care how long you've been playing, if you automatically think the Imperium is fascist, kill yourself. The Imperium is the farthest thing from fascism you can possibly get.

Yeah they aren't nice, but if you are a human they are pretty much your best chance for survival

They can’t separate that from the reality of 40K where the Imperium as is, is the only logical conclusion to preserving and saving humanity.

Forgive me for being a hobby tourist faggot and also probably bringing this up for the nine quadrillionth time in this thread-
It is explicitly said and repeated that humanity is in a state of ignorance and stagnation because of mass censorship and oppression, which is pretty fascistic. Then again, on the level of the individual human in the imperium, they’re not really the bad guy. Just someone in a massively fucked up system.
I think it’s a little silly to imply the imperium isn’t fascist/evil/bad. In the setting, it’s just how it’s gotta be. You gotta have a little fascism to keep nine gazillion humans in line.
Then again, hobby tourist faggot. My rope and chair is on its way from Amazon

 

[Newcomer 42]

They can’t separate that from the reality of 40K where the Imperium as is, is the only logical conclusion to preserving and saving humanity. If they even, for a second, admit that’s the case they’re giving “fascism” a foothold in their mind.

The best part is when some of them make up a faction of humanity that has all of the advantages and none of the drawbacks of the known races. Or say that the Tau are good.

 

[Rimanah]

It is explicitly said and repeated that humanity is in a state of ignorance and stagnation because of mass censorship and oppression, which is pretty fascistic

Totalitarianism isn’t the same as Facism. Facism itself is sort of hard to define, but the Imperium certainly lacks key elements that most commentators agree on, including centralized autocracy (the imperium is a decentralized feudal state with a nightmare bureaucracy), and anti-conservatism/communism/liberalism (the imperium is very conservative and afraid of change, and doesn’t really care about the latter two). I can see an argument on nationalism either way, but the imperium sort of by definition isn’t a nation, it’s a galactic empire.

If anything, the closest real life parallel to the Imperium is the Holy Roman Empire. Which makes sense, when you consider 40K was originally sort of WHFB in space, and the Empire of Man is just the HRE.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

i love the idea of chaos
unfortunately it's only successful because even supposed 3000 iq geniuses are fucking retarded

The main issue with Chaos as an alternative to the Imperium is that Chaos is even more predatory and cutthroat. So humans worshipping Chaos makes zero sense unless they are manipulated to thinking it would result in some socialist utopia rather than a completely Darwinist society.

mass censorship and oppression, which is pretty fascistic

By this metric soviet russia was fascistic. It's the usual issue where fascism becomes "things I don't like".

The best part is when some of them make up a faction of humanity that has all of the advantages and none of the drawbacks of the known races. Or say that the Tau are good.

Tau is especially ironic since they are legitimately a Nazi esque government that just plasters a feelgood statement how their biological based caste system is good for everyone.

The other alternative is the Interex, that were genocided in a day and technically attacked first.

 

[alogatog]

Totalitarianism isn’t the same as Facism. Facism itself is sort of hard to define, but the Imperium certainly lacks key elements that most commentators agree on, including centralized autocracy (the imperium is a decentralized feudal state with a nightmare bureaucracy), and anti-conservatism/communism/liberalism (the imperium is very conservative and afraid of change, and doesn’t really care about the latter two). I can see an argument on nationalism either way, but the imperium sort of by definition isn’t a nation, it’s a galactic empire.

Yeah, this checks out. I think that honestly debating whether a fictional empire is doing a le fascism or a le totalitarianism is kindof splitting hairs, but in the interest of doing so anyways, I would argue that fascism is best defined as a government that enthralls (and forces) the people into a single unified identity against an “other group”.
Looking at historic examples of fascism obviously the two big defining factors is a sort of ethnic supremacy and ultranationalism, both of which the imperium classically is.
(Also, yes, all the xenos are evil, even the tau. I’m not arguing that they’re good- I’m arguing that even if there was a good xenos, they would not last long against the imperium)

 

[Second Missing Primarch]

So humans worshipping Chaos makes zero sense unless they are manipulated to thinking it would result in some socialist utopia rather than a completely Darwinist society.

I always liked Ciaphas Cain's take on it, where he and Amberley note that most Chaos cults are made up of people who don't actually know that they're worshipping Chaos, at least at the start. They think it's a political movement agitating for change in the planetary government, or a secret club catering to a specific fetish, or some kind of warrior brotherhood. And, you know, the planetary governor sure is corrupt, and it's so liberating to finally meet other people who are into the same weird shit, and of course you want the approval of the veterans in your unit, so what does it matter if they've got a rogue psyker hanging around, or if a few club members turned up missing after that one crazy night that you don't quite remember, or that your sergeant doesn't seem to care all that much if your squad lives or dies as long as he can rack up more kills? So you get sucked in bit by bit and by the time you find out what you're actually involved in, it's too late to back out and you probably don't even care anymore, because Chaos has its hooks in you now and it's not letting go.

 

[SIMIΔN]

I know that GW coordinates with game devs and book authors to include/hint at incoming factions for the tabletop. Did this boss in RT count as Dark Mechanicum? Ik DM is what a lot of people are speculating will be a future faction. Would it even be unique enough to be distinct?

Space Marines are super popular, so the fraction of them who want evil Space Marines is still pretty big.
But Cult Mechanicus are already pretty niche, so that niche of a niche would be tiny.

Did this boss in RT count as Dark Mechanicum?

The Mechanicus dlc was about Heriteks but nothing came of it for years. Maybe there's only space for them as game antagonists.

 

[GoodWinSon]

View attachment 7730959
My aspiring sorcerer came with an option for either a warpflame pistol or this hand with the eye in it. Naturally, I chose the ladder. Is that just shooting myself in the foot with the model since he has no gun now?

Late, but if the kid comes with an extra arm, then stick it on him and give the third arm the gun. Warp mutations and all that.

 

[AncientPhosphur]

It was another fine session in Dark Heresy. My character is a Tanith scout who was picked up by the Inquisiton so naturally he resents being pulled out of his unit and gets threatened with liquidation constantly and just replies “If you want to fething kill me just send me back to the frontlines with my boys”. Recently instead of investigating a mysterious illness with the rest of the group, Roark ended up gambling and had to trade“acquisitioned” Xenos artifacts he couldn’t make heads or tails of to pay back his debts and in doing so learned about a crashed Eldar ship that was being used to ship wraithbone off world to a Rogue Trader that ended up being behind the illness.

 

[p1138]

So because people have I guess had some sort of success with this type of shit for D&D, someone is trying it for 40k...

https://bourbonandbolters.com/

What’s included in the ticket price?
Your ticket covers: six nights of luxury accommodations, all meals and snacks, open bar, access to all gaming events (campaigns, RTTs, casual play), workshops, classes, swag, and nightly entertainment. You only need to get yourself to the venue.
Do I need to bring my own miniatures or terrain?
Yes, you’ll need to bring your own Warhammer 40K army and personal gaming gear. For the RTT, you must bring a 2,000-point army. Tables and terrain will be provided for all scheduled events.

So you've got Kenny, who can paint but acts like a burnt out hype guy stuck in the 90s. Michael, who after many years in a podcast with Kenny did finally get a couple short stories published via Black Library so good for him. Brent, who moved back in with his parents because he's a weirdo that makes youtube videos and quit his day job before finding out if he could support himself via youtube. Brad, who got himself fired from a pro 40k team for breaching NDA with GW on his podcast due to being an uncontrollably drunk retard. And Casey who posts semi click-bait bullshit youtube slop. Also that price starts at $3,750. Two people sharing a room brings it up to $6,250. A larger room runs $5,900 for one to two guests, and $8400 for three. And the honeymoon suite is $7,000 solo, $9,500 for a couple.

Considering this doesn't even include travel cost, I can think of a hell of a lot more interesting week-long vacations starting at $3,750 up to $9,500.

 

[spagandhi]

honeymoon suite is $7,000 solo

>honeymoon suite
bro...

 

[Humble Architect]

The main issue with Chaos as an alternative to the Imperium is that Chaos is even more predatory and cutthroat. So humans worshipping Chaos makes zero sense unless they are manipulated to thinking it would result in some socialist utopia rather than a completely Darwinist society.

Stop looking at it through politics.

When it gets into your head, it’s there for good. So that worker who’s usual drinking group starts getting new members and meeting in a deeper, forgotten sub level and a charming demagogue introduces new ideas to these uneducated, depressed workers, which easily slip through the cracks and burrow in? He’s not getting involved with any intent to sacrifice his neighbors, but that weakness in his armor, that rage at the injustice? That tastes good and that’s their way in.

They don’t set out to hammer nails into their makeshift armor and carve runes into their flesh, but with chaos, you have to have your guard up, always, or it will get in, hollow you out and reprogram you. It’s an infection that masquerades as ideology.

That’s not even getting into the humans born on daemon worlds, chaos vessels or captives fresh off twenty years in service to the demigods. Anything else is unthinkable.

 

[Paul-Denton]

Brad, who got himself fired from a pro 40k team for breaching NDA with GW on his podcast due to being an uncontrollably drunk retard.

Think I saw this guy playing on a stream yesterday with a fucking glass of wine. If that tourney took place EST, it was 11 am. That being said, think he went 6-0 as far as I saw

 

[AncientPhosphur]

They don’t set out to hammer nails into their makeshift armor and carve runes into their flesh, but with chaos, you have to have your guard up, always, or it will get in, hollow you out and reprogram you. It’s an infection that masquerades as ideology.

The little insidious things that cause corruption is the most interesting part. Man who falls ill in a lower city hive and is offering a small blessing to who or what ever heals him takes a small step to becoming a full Nurgle cult as he heals up and starts offering more prayers that way and others seeing his recovery take notice and do the same. (Iirc this is what happened in the Siege as a false worship of the Emperor was directed towards Nurgle).

It’s such an interesting effect and the guy who runs our DH group has such a great way of introducing it that if you’re not up on the ball on the lore or just half notice some throwaway dialogue or don’t make an investigation roll that by the end of the campaign you’re dealing with a full cult on top of what you originally set out to do.

 

[p1138]

Think I saw this guy playing on a stream yesterday with a fucking glass of wine. If that tourney took place EST, it was 11 am. That being said, think he went 6-0 as far as I saw

Oh yeah the guy can play well. He was on a professional sponsored team(art of war 40k) that had a deal with GW for a reason. The problem is... he's a drunk idiot. These are not people I'd want to be around for a fucking week, let alone for $3,700.

You can spend way less going to a major tournament, or even going to a convention(adepticon, gencon, LVO, etc.) and doing nothing but taking painting and hobby classes for the weekend from better painters that have been teaching for years. Hell, if you've actually got a miniature gaming scene in your area, and aren't afraid to go to the FLGS because "ugh, I might bump into a tranny"(it's seriously gay how people here let that shit dictate their hobbies) and meet some of the better painters in your area a couple of them probably teach classes at the local conventions and shit. Yeah, they're going to be artsy types, that shouldn't be a shocker either.

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

40k's not all grimdark all the time, but it's just as disingenuous to imply that humanity are the good guys when you have such vast sectors of space where the average human has no rights, and are worked to death. The setting is so vast that you really have to take everything on its own merit. I think the best way to describe the whole of the setting isn't good or bad, but selfishness. Every faction, including the T'au are selfish. Humanity couldn't care less about the xenos because they want the whole of the galaxy. Chaos wants to feed itself. Orks just want a good krumpin. Among humanity different Space Marine chapters have their own agenda, like how planetary systems have their own. You may be born into Imperial slave pits, grow up never knowing your parents, get whipped into making ammunition for imperial weapons that never make its destination because of some minor administration error. Or you might live on some backwater world that's not exactly paradise, but at least no one is bothering you. Everyone is out for themselves and that's what drives the conflict in the setting. It's also what causes dumb arguments over whether or not the Imperium is fascists, or the good guys, because both arguments are equally valid.

 

[p1138]

40k's not all grimdark all the time, but it's just as disingenuous to imply that humanity are the good guys when you have such vast sectors of space where the average human has no rights, and are worked to death. The setting is so vast that you really have to take everything on its own merit. I think the best way to describe the whole of the setting isn't good or bad, but selfishness. Every faction, including the T'au are selfish. Humanity couldn't care less about the xenos because they want the whole of the galaxy. Chaos wants to feed itself. Orks just want a good krumpin. Among humanity different Space Marine chapters have their own agenda, like how planetary systems have their own. You may be born into Imperial slave pits, grow up never knowing your parents, get whipped into making ammunition for imperial weapons that never make its destination because of some minor administration error. Or you might live on some backwater world that's not exactly paradise, but at least no one is bothering you. Everyone is out for themselves and that's what drives the conflict in the setting. It's also what causes dumb arguments over whether or not the Imperium is fascists, or the good guys, because both arguments are equally valid.

It's also irrelevant to try and compare it to modern politics, which people try to do all the fucking time. At no point in history has humanity been a unified force on Earth, let alone the galaxy which brings up all sorts of resource, logistical, and other economic issues that wouldn't be comparable to anything presently on Earth in the slightest. For all of the complaining about "fascism" it's also quite communist in many ways including getting scooped up and put into the bowels of an imperial navy ship greasing sewage valves because that's what the bureaucracy decided was the best use of your labor and that's shitty too.

Just the same as you wouldn't try comparing historical or contemporary politics to Dune, because it's fucking absurd.

 

[AncientPhosphur]

I’d say it’s more feudalist than fascist functioning more like the Holy Roman Empire than fascism. I mean there’s not much movement of class structures outside maybe the military. And if your parents were doing some shit job than it’s more than likely you are too unless you join the Guard (if your world allows it) and even then you face a 15 hours average lifespan your first battle against unspeakable horror never to see home again even if you survive.